Pliny the Elder recipe questions

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I am thinking about doing this recipe... but almost 5 oz of Simcoe? Hmm.. that is going to cost me at least $15 just for the Simcoe alone! Gah... maybe I should just start with 1-gallon of it and see if I even like it...
 
I am planning to brew 5 gallons of this and am working on settling on a recipe. I have decided to follow a pdf from RR brewing that lists the following for a grain bill:
87% 2row
4% crystal 45l
4% carapils
5% dextrose
after lots of pencil erasing and based off of 2 other clone recipes I have for PTE I may be settling on this for my grain bill:
15lbs 2-row
.7lb crystal
.7lb carapils
1lb dextrose
I decided to increase the grain bill to meet the percentages because a common problem in my batches is a lack of malt body. Also, the RR brewing recipe says that this recipe has a 8 gallons gross kettle volume, 5 net gallons post fermentation.
Does this mean 8 gallons of wort boiled down to 5 gallons for the fermenter?
:drunk:
 
Wow!!!!!!! This beer is f-ing delicious!!!!!! I drank my first one last night. It had only been in the bottle for 1 week. It was adequately carbonated and was probably a little green, but it was AWESOME!!!! This beer will not last long! I am definitely making it again!!!!
 
So are there any updates on the amount of hops or the scheduling of additions since july? I had PtE on tap in seattle for the first time and was hooked, I wasnt even a huge fan of hoppy beers before that.

If I add extra hops during the last 15-5 minutes of the boil would that help keep some of that hop flavor in the beer for a little while longer? I'm not totally sure how dry hopping works but it seems like any flavor or aroma from dry hopping goes away quicker than normal hop additions
 
experiencehaze said:
So are there any updates on the amount of hops or the scheduling of additions since july?
Click to expand...

I've made this recipe about a dozen times now. I have played around with the hop schedule. Mostly I just stick with the original, but I do my first dry hop addition as primary fermentation is slowing down (about day 4-5, you don't have to wait for primary to completely stop). I rack to keg when FG stabilizes (around day 8-10), and do my second dry hop addition in the keg in a sanitized mesh bag. Dry hopping in the keg gives you a great hop aroma that persists longer than the doing a dry hop addition in secondary before you keg.

experiencehaze said:
If I add extra hops during the last 15-5 minutes of the boil would that help keep some of that hop flavor in the beer for a little while longer? I'm not totally sure how dry hopping works but it seems like any flavor or aroma from dry hopping goes away quicker than normal hop additions
Click to expand...

Generally, hops added at start/early in boil are for bittering.
Hops added last 5-15 minutes of the boil mostly add flavor.
Dry hopping is primarily for aroma.

Of course this varies quite a bit with your technique. If you add hops in the last 5 minutes but it takes you 40 minutes to cool your wort, you will get a different flavor profile than if you have a huge plate or counterflow chiller and you can chill your wort in 5 minutes.

My suggestion: Try brewing same recipe a few different times, make variations each time, and keep notes so you know what you like (or don't like) for the next batch.

Good luck!
Jim
 
I brewed up this recipe on July 2nd. Really had to baby the boil since my BK is only 8gal, it was right at the lip of the kettle. Yesterday I dry hopped it, took a hydro reading, and tasted the sample. WOW is all i can say, this stuff tastes great even before dry hopping!! Hydro reading was 1.022 so still has a little ways to go but i'm super excited to get this into a keg and tapped. I'm planning to do the 2nd round of dry hopping in the keg.

Thanks for posting the recipe!
 
impur said:
I'm planning to do the 2nd round of dry hopping in the keg.

Thanks for posting the recipe!
Click to expand...

if you are going to dry hop in the keg,you might want to consider jumpering in to a new keg after a week or so of dry hopping, before you store the beer long term. long term dry hopping (over two/three weeks) can lead to a grassy off flavor.
 
Plenty of people leave the hops in the keg until it kicks. At keezer temps the grassy flavors seem to be restrained.
 
I think mine is finished. I didn't hit my gravity numbers, but this is still an outstanding beer. It finished at 1.016, with an OG of 1.082.

When i transferred this to my fermenter, i poured the wort thru a paint strainer so i could filter out all the hops. When i dry hopped it, i didn't use a bag or anything so all those hops are floating at the top. Would cold crashing help drop those out or should I just strain them out again when i transfer to my keg?
 
Id say just pull it from the bottom, avoid introducing O2 into the finished beer at all costs. cold crashing helps to get the yeast in suspension to fall to the bottom of the fermenter, so I doubt the hops would follow if you cold crashed it, but it would help to clear the beer.
 
Thanks for the reply. Yah i really don't want to oxidize the brew so i was a little worried about how to deal with the hops. I'll just cold crash it for a day or 2, then use my auto siphon and not worry about the hops.
 
Put a nylon hop bag, or whatever you use around your racking cane Should be able to get every last drop! Works for me every time! Also, this is my favorite IIPA and it NEVER lasts long.
 
I have a question regarding dry hopping:

I live up north and brew outside so this year's brewing days are about over. I wanted to make sure I got the Pliny clone in this year, but would love it to peak around thanksgiving/christmas -- a lot of friends/family visiting.

So. What do you guys think of crash cooling, transferring to a keg and storing at 38 degrees then initiating the dry hop schedule, while chilled, around the middle of November? I know I'll lose some of the late edition flavor/aroma -- but I'm hoping that storing the beer in the 30s would help preserve these characteristics. Any thoughts?


Cheers!
 
lagavulin said:
What do you guys think of crash cooling, transferring to a keg and storing at 38 degrees then initiating the dry hop schedule, while chilled, around the middle of November? I know I'll lose some of the late edition flavor/aroma -- but I'm hoping that storing the beer in the 30s would help preserve these characteristics. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I do my first dry hop at the end of primary fermentation but before I rack to the kegs. I usually start this around day 4 when the vigorous fermentation slows down, then wait a week until the gravity stabilizes. I use pellet hops for this, because they settle nicely to the bottom of the fermenter. I tried it once with whole-hops and it was like split-hop soup!

I do my second dry hop in the kegs, stored at serving temps. I put the hops in a sanitized hop bag or tea-ball, and leave them in there until the keg is drained. I know the conventional wisdom is this can impart off flavors like grassy taste... but after at least a half-dozen batches with this method haven't found this to be a problem. Probably because it is stored at serving temps, and this beer doesn't tend to sit around too long! I have had kegs in my keezer for about 3 months with the dry hops in them and can't detect any off tastes.

:mug:
 
thanks for the response.

How long do you find Pliny maintains it's hop profile. Ideally I'd like it to last 2-3 months from now.

Thoughts on delaying the dry hopping? If not the first addition, the second?

Or do you find it would be unnecessary if leaving the second additions in the serving keg (which I've done with other beer, and have found no negative consequences)?


Cheers!
 
Question from an AG noob. The BYO recipe call for a # of corn sugar. Does the corn sugar actually get added to the Mash? Or was this intended for the boil? With a full # of it, just want to make sure. Any help is appreciated!
 
JJ86 said:
Question from an AG noob. The BYO recipe call for a # of corn sugar. Does the corn sugar actually get added to the Mash? Or was this intended for the boil? With a full # of it, just want to make sure. Any help is appreciated!
Click to expand...

into the boil.
 
JJ86 said:
Question from an AG noob. The BYO recipe call for a # of corn sugar. Does the corn sugar actually get added to the Mash? Or was this intended for the boil? With a full # of it, just want to make sure. Any help is appreciated!
Click to expand...

I typically add it last 10 minutes (or so) of the boil. If you add it to start of the boil, it will decrease the utilization of the hops some, although with a hop-bomb like this not sure how much a difference it will really make. Just make sure to mix well... you don't want the sugar settling on the bottom of your kettle and burning/caramelizing.
 
Some will also boil it in water on the stove and add it to the primary about half way through fermentation. Reason is to not start was as high an OG when fermenting which helps not stress the yeast as much.

Kal
 
How many days are you guys typically letting this go in primary before adding first set of dry hops? I brewed it up on the 19th. I am thinking of doing the first set of hops in the next day or so. I am just going to dry hop in the primary. Then maybe do the second set in the keg.
 
I add them as soon as primary fermentation is over usually around a week or so. With a beer like this you want to drink it as fresh as possible.
 
jtejedor said:
I add them as soon as primary fermentation is over usually around a week or so. With a beer like this you want to drink it as fresh as possible.
Click to expand...
+1

After a week of fermentation it's getting close to done so I add hops directly to the primary and let them sit for about another week. You don't want to add hops too early as the fermentation bubbling strips away the hoppy goodness you're adding by dry hopping.

I use a secondary only as a brite tank for a few days by adding gelatine and then keg.

Kal
 
Wish I read this forum first. I know its in the thread but in case someone doesn't want to dig through all the pages wanted to share that the zymurgy recipe did not scale the grains correctly. I was under on OG by 7 points.

"From: Jill Redding [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Zymurgy Pliny the Elder Clone Recipe

The Pliny the Elder recipe Vinnie Cilurzo originally provided to us (July/August Zymurgy) was in percentages for the fermentables, which we calculated for a 5-gallon recipe. In fact, it should have been calculated for a 6-gallon recipe to allow for the loss of wort due to the hop additions.

Taking this into account, here are the adjusted amounts for the fermentables (6 gallons at 1.070 O.G. with 75 percent efficiency):

13.25 lb (6.01 kg) two-row pale malt
0.6 lb (272 g) Crystal 45 malt
0.6 lb (272 g) Carapils (Dextrin) malt
0.75 lb (340 g) dextrose (corn) sugar

Many thanks to the generosity of Vinnie Cilurzo for providing his recipe.

Jill Redding
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy"
 
I brewed this on 12/19 and dry hopped according to schedule. Has been in the keg a little over two weeks but is quite harsh tasting. Very green and bitter. That puts me 6 weeks out. When you guys say drink it green, do you mean this early? Or am I still another week or two away? Thanks.
 
This is completely normal for this beer. It should strip a few layers off your tongue and throat when its "green" It will subside, and you will appreciate its unique flavors and alcoholic punch. (just a 22 for me and I'm done) I brew this twice a year, and not many people can actually drink and appreciate it. More for me! Enjoy!
 
Mine was delicious from the first pint out of the keg right after it carbed. I added the final dry hop additions to the keg in a muslin bag. I am hoping to brew this again soon...
 
I'm planning on brewing this in a couple weeks, I found the following article:

http://486286.cache1.evolutionhosting.com/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf

I am planning on doing the extract full boil option. The ingredients below are for an 8 gallon boil. However, I don't have the capacity for that size of a boil, so I was hoping someone could scale the ingredients for me to 6.5 gallons? I also plan on using hop pellets so I don't know if I need to reduce the amount of hops not only to scale it to 6.5 gallons, but because the concentration is higher in pellets? Should I just use 80% of everything?

Ingredients
for 6.0 gallons (22.7 L) [Net: 5 gallons (18.9 L) after hop loss]

6.75 lb Two-Row pale malt
6.5 lb Light Dry Malt Extract
0.6 lb (272 g) Crystal 45 malt
0.6 lb (272 g) Carapils (Dextrin) Malt
0.75 lb (340 g) Dextrose (corn) sugar
3.50 oz (99 g) Columbus* 13.90% A.A. 90 min.
0.75 oz (21 g) Columbus* 13.90% A.A. 45 min.
1.00 oz (28 g) Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 30 min.
1.00 oz (28 g) Centennial 8.00% A.A. 0 min.
2.50 oz (71 g) Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 0 min.
1.00 oz (28 g) Columbus* 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
1.00 oz (28 g) Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
1.00 oz (28 g) Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 days total)
0.25 oz (7 g) Columbus* 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
0.25 oz (7 g) Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
0.25 oz (7 g) Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
*Tomahawk/Zeus can be substituted for Columbus
White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast or
Wyeast 1056 American Ale Yeast
 
Don't know if it helps, but this is the way I made it before going all grain. Brewed about 20 gallons of this stuff since then. Always a favorite.

Here's the mini mash:Bring 2.5 gal water to 160, Turn off heat. In a muslin bag, add the following. Mash @approx 155 for 45 min. Sparge with 170F h20 at 1 qt per 2 lb of grain, so not much.

.25# C40
1.75# 2 row
14 oz. Carapils
1.5 oz Chinook

Squeeze out the goodness that is within, bring to a boil, turn off heat and add:

7 lb Extra Pale malt extract (Liquid)
1 lb corn sugar
Stir to Dissolve completely, reheat to boiling, be careful and watch for the boil-over! Reduce heat to control the boil, and set the timer for 90 min.

Hops
90 Min
.5 Chinook
2.75 Warrior

45 Min.
1 simcoe

30 min
1 oz columbus

0 min (flameout)
2.25 centennial
1 simcoe

Chill and top off to make 5.25 gal Should be around 1.075SG
Pitch Yeast
Wait a few weeks,
then secondary with 2 oz. Simcoe, 3 oz. Columbus, and 1.75 centennial.

After about 7-10 days, bottle or keg and wait for that sweet nectar to flow!
Should end up around 1.014-1.016 FG.

Enjoy!
 
Thanks nicegut! I do have a couple questions, on the recipe above, after the mini mash, how much water did you add for malt and corn sugar addition? I'm predicting about 1.5 gallons boil off, so after 2.5 gallons mini-mash, I would just add another 4 gallons for the malt and corn sugar addition?

The second question is in regards to yeast. Vinnie recommends California Ale Yeast, and to use a starter or 2 vials of liquid yeast. What yeast did you use? I was planning on picking up 2 vials of WLP001.
 
The sparge is approximately 1.5 quarts. At the end of the boil, after cooling, add the top off water to bring it up to 5.25 Gal in your primary fermentor. The Chinook are FWH (first wort hops in grain bag). And yes wlp california001 is the way to go. You can make a starter to save dinero from the one vial. I never double pitch.
 
PS-I'll be fermenting this in a 6 gallon glass carboy. How crazy will the krausen get during fermentation? I was planning on running my siphon tubing through the rubber bung to a growler half full of star san water instead of using an airlock.
 
Question.

I just brewed this batch on St. Patty's day and it was my first time ever doing all grain. When the "bubbles" or primary fermentation stops am I then supposed to rach it into my secondary and then add the first dry hop addition or do I add the dry hop additions now in the primary? Also after primary fermentation is when I am supposed to take my fg reading correct?

Thanks for any help I'm still pretty new at this.
 

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