NY nanobrewery legal/startup?

Hi all. I am an NY brewer looking at nanobrwery startup costs. I was wondering of anyone out there in beer land has any expertise beyond the brew floor? I'm looking for legal costs and hurdles, labeling costs/hurdles, etc.

Thanks in advance!!

-S

Hi S. If you don't get any answers here, you might check out a pro brewing forum at www.probrewer.com There you will find others who have made the jump from hobby to profession.

Much thanks. Looking at the option of business to business or open a bottle shop/tap house. Looking at legal ramifications and hoops of either. Plus, obviously, the cost of point of entry to both.

When I was seriously considering going that route, my buisness partner and I figured we would need a minimum of around 50K to get up and running, not including the cost of permits ect. This was a bare-bones set up mind you. We never went through with it.

Good luck.

Point of clarification, I ask instead of searching mostly to seek anecdotes from those currently seeking out nano brewing and those already in the marketplace. Nano brewing in NY has been changing from quarter to quarter and as municipalities become more and more familiar with it, my curiosity is in how this moving target is changing.

Apologies if this thread seems redundant. Just trying to stay current

Might be a good time to get into the market with Chuck Schumer pushing NY beer now. I heard about this on the radio a while back - Senator Charles E. Schumer

WhineinAlbany said:

Might be a good time to get into the market with Chuck Schumer pushing NY beer now. I heard about this on the radio a while back - Senator Charles E. Schumer

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Case in point

no experience here but lemme know if you need some help on the floor!

I am an aspiring nanobrewer out in CA and have done a ton of research on the subject. It seem like the biggest hurdle is dealing with your local gov't and all the various fees and zoning issues. It seems that unless the nanobrewery is located in an area that has cheap rent and relatively lax local government regulation it is very, very hard to make it. Have you read this...? THE SMALL BREWING SYSTEMS PAGEPlease read this if you are considering a system smaller than 7 barrels
I agree that a minimum of 50K is needed depending on your area. In my part of CA I figured that it would cost me a minimum of 2k a month for licensing, rent, insurance, etc...You have to sell a lot of beer to make it worth it and even then you will be paying yourself minimum wage...if at all!

this might be worth a read, nano brewery in buffalo.

Community Beer Works

If you are serious, read this thread from #1 to the end:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/nanobrewery-build-137400/

I started my pro career not to long ago with less than 5k. It's all about using the resources you have to make great beer and the energy and drive inside of you to get it out there. We have tons of great information all over this forum on it, and probrewer is another great resource.

A friend and I looked into all of the requirements last year. The overt regulations and licensing in NYC/NYS didn't actually seem too restrictive or expensive. We were very surprised. For some reason, the brewery license even costs more or less depending on the boro. It is the only fee I've ever encountered that is different for each boro, which is very suprising considering that NYC is a single legal entity. In Staten Island, the license to produce beer on site was only $400 a year!

But that's where the "friendliness" ends. NYC is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE environment for small business, and unless you are really committed and have good financial backing, you will be in for a big surprise.

To get your liquor license, you need to convince the community board to give it to you, after you have established your business. In other words, you will have to pay rent, buy equipment, get all of your operating licenses, then petition the community board to approve your license. I've heard that this can take up to two years depending on the community board involved. I suspect that the best thing to do is get in with the community board before starting this process so that you will have a good heads up and some influence once you start spending money. This should help lessen the time required to be approved. It is NYC after all: It's not what you know, but who you know.

As a nano, you wouldn't have to deal with many of the labor issues that NYC forces on its small business owners, but you will have to deal with the NYC Health Department, the Death Star of food-related businesses within the 5 boros. Take a look at this article for a taste of what this department can do to you:

Staten Island restaurant Cucina di Napoli is closed by Health Department after owner blasts agency for health code violation enforcement - NYPOST.com

Long story short, we decided it was not worth it to deal with all of the nonsense involved. We were looking to open a brewpub though, so maybe the requirements for a brewery would be easier to deal with. If the health department is involved in any way (I'm sure they are since a brewery produces a consumable), I would personally not bother.

My friend decided to take over a family farm in MA and will be farming hops starting next year with plans to open a brewpub on site. I'm looking at opening a BBQ brewpub sportsbar with my cousin in the Hudson Valley. NYC can keep stealing money from someone else.

Subscribing to this because I am in Upstate near Saratoga and want to learn the same info. I can't do anything about it now... but in the longterm future I would like to work in the Brewing industry (tho maybe not a brewpub of my own). It will be a good discussion to follow.

You could try to get in touch with the fellow that runs Blind Bat Brewery.

Also from ny Hudson valley area. Interested in the info also. I have checked it out and looks like the only fees I saw were you have to get a bond. The brewers application is free. But I might be wrong cuz I'm not at the pc right now. Go to the ttb.gov they have all the info. I think the thing that's gonna cost is equipment, rent, and getting your name out there.

I'm a Hudson valley rat stranded in NYC

Thanks guys! Y'all have been a huge help.

PanzerBanana said:

You could try to get in touch with the fellow that runs Blind Bat Brewery.

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Was just scrolling through the thread to make sure Blind Bat was mentioned. I had some e-mails with Paul a few years ago when I was looking into a Brew-Magic system. His blog has some good details on the trials and tribulations of being a nano-brewer

Good luck doing business here.

It's funny how many businesses thrive in such a business unfriendly city?!

It is just a city not for the faint-of-heart. It's about who you know, not what. I do a bit of interacting with the DOH now, and they're cool until you cross them. Same goes for the fire marshals. There is quite a bit of opportunity, but you aren't playing by your own rules. Far from it, actually.

Regardless, NYC rents are too high to enter this already-weird market... I'm thinking more about the vicinity, not inside the 5 boroughs.

Sebas83 said:

It's funny how many businesses thrive in such a business unfriendly city?!

It is just a city not for the faint-of-heart.

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It's not funny once you start looking at how many fail...

In my case, it certainly isn't a case of being faint of heart. It's because I know it would be hard to hide the DOH inspectors in my freezer for more than a few weeks before some starts looking for them. :rockin:

Funny thing is, my friend and almost-business partner is extremely liberal minded, and has no problem at all with the political environment that made him give up his dream of running a restaurant here. Even now, its hard to get him to admit there's a problem. The "who you know" and "how much money you have" aspect is all well and good, until you realize that very few normal people with plenty of drive and skill, but less than a ridiculous amount of resources, can make a business work here.

Anymore info on this.. I saw newburgh brewery just opened last week.

So far, no. I can't reconcile the numbers of brewing under about 5-7bbl. Unless I can tag onto another, established, restaurant/bar it's just too expensive.

The startup costs on a 5-7 are high, but operating costs are a LOT lower per unit sold...

Have a restaurant/bar in the Hudson valley?

I have a bar? Where at?

Oops not I I meant you...

No. I dont. I live in the city but want to land in the Dutchess/Columbia county.

I think NY just passed a farmbrewer's bill. Not sure but I saw something about that last week on the news. It looks to do for brewing what similar bills did for winemaking. Phasing in requirements to use NY grown hops and malt. In exchange, regulatory obstructions are being removed to help the small brewer.

So, out of curiousity, what have you (or others) found that the costs would be? (I realize there are probably no concrete numbers and every situation would be different, and that opening anything in NYC would be a whole other ballgame.)

The other day I was at a farmer's market and found out that there's a new nano-nano-micro that's starting up in Poughkeepsie called Sloop Brewing. The brewmaster said he's running a 20 gallon system, so equipment wise it's basically a large homebrewing setup, and it seemed like they were brewing out of their garage or a shed on their property or something. So, if you were to start off REALLY small, and you had the space and (for the sake of discussion) the equipment, what would it cost? A couple hundred/thousand in licensing and fees?

sub'd

othellomcbane said:

So, out of curiousity, what have you (or others) found that the costs would be? (I realize there are probably no concrete numbers and every situation would be different, and that opening anything in NYC would be a whole other ballgame.)

The other day I was at a farmer's market and found out that there's a new nano-nano-micro that's starting up in Poughkeepsie called Sloop Brewing. The brewmaster said he's running a 20 gallon system, so equipment wise it's basically a large homebrewing setup, and it seemed like they were brewing out of their garage or a shed on their property or something. So, if you were to start off REALLY small, and you had the space and (for the sake of discussion) the equipment, what would it cost? A couple hundred/thousand in licensing and fees?

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im gonna have to get in touch with this guy and c what he had to do to get started. is he just doing bottled beer or kegs also?

integra93ls said:

im gonna have to get in touch with this guy and c what he had to do to get started. is he just doing bottled beer or kegs also?

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Yeah, I'm going to try to set up an interview with him for my blog. I've been wanting to start doing interviews with very small new breweries. I'm sure his experiences would be super interesting to all of us on HBT. He's actually selling bottles at his farmer's market stands, not sure if he's kegging. Doing some pretty interesting stuff too, like a peach Berliner Weisse with an actual sour mash. Unfortunately my weekends this summer are completely nuts, and I probably won't get back to talk to him for another month or so.

Also, getting off topic just one sec, I posted the other day in an old thread of yours about opening up a homebrew shop in the area. Was curious what ever came of that.

a little late, but subscribed