46 degrees too cold?

I'm using wyeast 2278 for a pilsener and I have kegorator set at warmest setting. It has been about 28 hours and no activity that I have seen.
I'm in FL and the coolest ambient temp achievable is 71-73 on the tile floor with the ac on.
Mike

MikeMetroka said:

I'm using wyeast 2278 for a pilsener and I have kegorator set at warmest setting. It has been about 28 hours and no activity that I have seen.
I'm in FL and the coolest ambient temp achievable is 71-73 on the tile floor with the ac on.
Mike

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What yeast did you use

Scruffy1207 said:

What yeast did you use

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What part of Wyeast 2278 did you not understand? That yeast does best between 50-58°

iaefebs said:

What part of Wyeast 2278 did you not understand? That yeast does best between 50-58°

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Come at me bro. I was drunk when I asked this question. Yeah you'll have to warm it up a bit.

Scruffy1207 said:

What yeast did you use

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iaefebs said:

What part of Wyeast 2278 did you not understand? That yeast does best between 50-58°

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i was thinking the same thing.

Scruffy1207 said:

Come at me bro. I was drunk when I asked this question. Yeah you'll have to warm it up a bit.

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likely story.

i agree that it might need to be a bit warmer, but remember, fermentation is exothermic, so it may warm itself to the desired range. what 'signs' of fermentation are you not seeing? is it in a glass vessel and you see nothing's happening, or are you waiting for airlock bubbles?

Yeh, waiting on bubbles in airlock. I wish I had the dough for a temp controller. This my first attempt a cold fermentation. My fault for not previously check how warm I could get the kegorator.
Mike

MikeMetroka said:

I wish I had the dough for a temp controller.

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Check my sig. for a temperature controller build that only costs around $40.

I would not warm it up at all! Just leave it alone. 46 F is perfect pitching temperature for a lager. Just wait 50-60 more hours or so. I can bet you money it will start eventually. I pitch most of my beers next day after its cooled BELOW lowest recommended temperature for the yeast and let it raise naturally

paraordnance said:

I would not warm it up at all! Just leave it alone. 46 F is perfect pitching temperature for a lager. Just wait 50-60 more hours or so. I can bet you money it will start eventually. I pitch most of my beers next day after its cooled BELOW lowest recommended temperature for the yeast and let it raise naturally

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yeah, i really like the results of starting a brew out nice and cool, whether ale or lager, it just seems to produce a cleaner beer, IMO.

I'm in the 'start the ferment warm' camp. I watch for the krausen and/or airlock movement at 65-70F and chill the fermenter as soon as it forms.

I have gone both ways with the temp, both seem to work out. It may take a little while for the beer to get going, but if your sanitation procedures were decent that shouldn't be an issue. Lagers take at least 2x as long as ales most of the time. I think you'll be just fine. In the end, results>process.

I'm going to wait a couple more days. I don't think I should bring it up to 72 degrees. I don't think I have many options unless I invest in a temp controller. That isn't possible right now.
Mike

I pitched a starter of 2278 onto a bopils Sunday. Pitched at 65, then into freezer. I know from experience that my freezer will take it down within about 3 hours. So, it was at about 48 by Sunday night.

Monday night it had some small yeast islands floating around.

Tonight (Tuesday) it's got a big fat krausen on top. I've made a lot of lagers, different yeasts, this same way. Always works out. Just wait and see, I'll bet it'll be OK. If you don't see any activity in 3 days, pull your carboys out and let them sit at room temp overnight, then put them back in.

BTW, the yeast was just a jarred section of a yeast cake from a beer back in the fall (Septemper-ish), stored in the fridge.

UPDATE: I got bubbles! On the fourth day I noticed bubbles this morning and this evening. It is slow but going.
Thanks to all for the input.

Glad to hear it's working. One thing I would be sure to do if I knew I was pitching on the cool side would be to make sure to pitch lots of yeast. Underpitched and too cold is a bad combination.

If you think you may have underpitched and fermentation progresses slowly or less vigorously than you were expecting, be sure to start your d-rest early; 1.020 at the latest.

I'm assuming when I spend the extra $ on a liquid yeast especially wyeast that I'll be set. Plus it is a lager yeast.
What is does the term d-rest mean?
Thanks
Mike

I start slightly above, at 56-58, as that's the coldest I could get it. It then cools after I pitch.

MikeMetroka said:

I'm assuming when I spend the extra $ on a liquid yeast especially wyeast that I'll be set. Plus it is a lager yeast.
What is does the term d-rest mean?
Thanks
Mike

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diacetyl rest. At cold temps some yeast, some times, produce something that tastes very much like buttered popcorn. The yeast will "clean this up" if you just raise the beer 10F for a day or two when the fermentation is finished. You can taste the beer and if you don't detect this just skip the d-rest. But a lot of brewers (me) just do it every time, regardless.

@passedpawn
Thanks for the definition.
I'm not sure how I would raise temp by only 10 degrees with kegorator set at warmest and being in FL room temp is 72 with ac, yes we're running ac.
If I lager more beers I will invest in the temperature controller.
I thought about shutting kegorator off for a day but I just tapped the Good Hope IPA keg today.
Also since it took 4 days to see activity I am going to leave the pilsner in the primary for an additional 4 days for a total of 8.
Any thoughts?
Mike

MikeMetroka said:

@passedpawn
Thanks for the definition.
I'm not sure how I would raise temp by only 10 degrees with kegorator set at warmest and being in FL room temp is 72 with ac, yes we're running ac.
If I lager more beers I will invest in the temperature controller.
I thought about shutting kegorator off for a day but I just tapped the Good Hope IPA keg today.
Also since it took 4 days to see activity I am going to leave the pilsner in the primary for an additional 4 days for a total of 8.
Any thoughts?
Mike

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I'd leave it at fermentation temps for 10 days after I saw the first signs of fermentation (i.e., bubbles). Then do a d-rest (just pull it out of the freezer for a day, it's OK). Then crash hard (maybe wait for your other beer to be done, and crash them together) at 32 for 3 or 4 days. They will clear very well. Rack carefully. Store in bottles or keg for as long as your patience holds out. Congrats!

If anyone is still listening here is an update:
After 4 days @ 45-46 degrees we've got activity.
After 11 days still bubbling.
It was already suggested to stay in primary for 10 days after activity has started.
Unless I hear otherwise that will be the plan.
Cheers
Mike

Why 10 days? Your calendar is not a useful brewing tool. Your hydrometer, however, is.

You should start a diacetyl rest (raise to at least 60 degrees) once you are about 8 points above target FG. I use 1.020 for most normal-gravity lagers. You want to do this while the yeast are still active. It will not affect the flavour profile of your finished beer (except that you will have no diacetyl). Leave it at that temperature until you are certain you have reached FG. Then rack it for lagering.

osagedr said:

Why 10 days? Your calendar is not a useful brewing tool. Your hydrometer, however, is.

You should start a diacetyl rest (raise to at least 60 degrees) once you are about 8 points above target FG. I use 1.020 for most normal-gravity lagers. You want to do this while the yeast are still active. It will not affect the flavour profile of your finished beer (except that you will have no diacetyl). Leave it at that temperature until you are certain you have reached FG. Then rack it for lagering.

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It might go from FG + 8 points to FG in less than 24 hours. That is not practical advice. D-rest at the end of fermentation is just fine. I would not recommend daily fidgeting with beer for a homebrewer.

I do agree about determining the end of fermentation using a hydrometer. I always assume this is what others do.

Hold on, here comes a dumb question.
How does one extract a sample?
Are you using a fermentor with a spigot and draw some off?
I just use a bucket with lid and airlock, I don't want to take the lid off do I?
Mike

passedpawn said:

It might go from FG + 8 points to FG in less than 24 hours. That is not practical advice. D-rest at the end of fermentation is just fine. I would not recommend daily fidgeting with beer for a homebrewer.

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The reason I recommend d-rest before the end of fermentation for lagers is partly to take care of the diacetyl, and partly to ensure fermentation finishes strong. Many new-ish lager brewers underpitch a bit; an early d-rest helps them finish off strong where otherwise they might get stuck. In a nutshell, there is nothing to be gained by delaying the d-rest, and much to be risked.

On page 113 of Yeast White and Zainasheff recommend a d-rest at 65 to 68 before reaching FG (2 to 5 gravity points), and note the Narziss fermentation procedure for lagers has the final 1/3 of fermentation at 68 degrees. My own practice is somewhere in between. YMMV.

MikeMetroka said:

Hold on, here comes a dumb question.
How does one extract a sample?
Are you using a fermentor with a spigot and draw some off?
I just use a bucket with lid and airlock, I don't want to take the lid off do I?
Mike

Click to expand...

I ferment my lagers in 10 gallon buckets with a rather loose-fitting lid. I peek relatively frequently. When my krausen is thin enough to easily take a gravity reading using my hydrometer, I do so, and that's usually an indication it's getting close to d-rest time.

Pulled fermentor out of the fridge for the d-rest, for 24 hours then down into the thirties for a couple of weeks.

Get a turkey baster, a clear one is best. Always sanitize it before you take a sample for 10 minutes or longer. Sanitize your hydrometer flask as well even though it doesn't go into the beer just to be safe. Take at least a 6 oz sample, not because you need that much to take a reading, but because you need that much to get a good tasting.

Don't use the turkey baster on turkey!!! Hide it around Thanksgiving so nobody gets any ideas.