Adding bitterness after fermentation?

So I'm new here. Been browsing the forums for 2 months and have found loads of very useful information. I did my first batch at the end of February and have done 5 total now. All extract with steeping grains using beersmith as a guide to create recipes (all IPA's so far).
I didn't realize until yesterday that when you don't do a full boil and have to add make-up water to the fermenter, you loose a lot of hop utilization since the boil has a higher SG than your designed OG. Therefore, the batches I've made so far will end up with fewer IBU's than I planned since my brewing equipment info wasn't enetered properly into beersmith. Now, granted, I haven't even tried any of the beer yet so it might be perfectly fine, but can I some how add bitterness to the secondary? Would boiling hops with some DME, letting it cool and adding during transfer to secondary work?

cliff notes:
1. I'm a noob
2. Homebrewtalk is awesome
3. I entered brewing equipment info into beersmith improperly
4. Made 4 batches with probably fewer IBU's than expected
4. Can I add bitterness to the secondary?

Thanks a bunch!
Nate

Actually you're sweating something that would be so infintesmal in terms of bitterness "taste" that you won't even really notice...Most of us who do extract with grain, partial boils don't make any "special" twiddling in terms of hop amounts to overcompensate for the "utilization" differential based on the volume we boil our hops in...we just go by what the software figures out automatically...Most software including beercalculus can distinguish between a full volume and a partial volume boil...and most recipes whether kit or online will tell you the best volume to boil your hops and steep your grains in... and those have been calculated accordingly...

John Palmer gives a really mindblowing interview on new findings about hop utilization and IBU, and the subjectivity of "bitterness" based on some new information he's gleaned from a conference he recently attended that actually contradicts in many ways what he wrote in how to brew and has become "common wisdom."

You can listen to it by clicking here... http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-20-08ibu.mp3

Basically he says don't sweat the small stuff and RDWHAHB!

"RDWHAHB"

I wish...none of it is done yet

thanks, I'll listen to it.

dstar26t said:

"RDWHAHB"

I wish...none of it is done yet

thanks, I'll listen to it.

Click to expand...

Then "Relax, Don't Worry and Have a Decent Microw Brew!!!!"

Also, if it is any consolation and if I remember correctly, Palmer said that humans can't distinguish between 5 IBUs. Use Beersmith to look at your utilization in the partial boil, and I'd bet that it isn't off by more than 5 IBUs.

Granted:

I'm a noob as well.
I haven't listened to his radio interview so there may be new info. on the subject.

"This advice is worth what you paid for it

Beehive

There's a lot of debate about a lot of things in homebrewing...Hop utilization using a hopsack vs dumping in the kettle, Hotside aeration, plastic vs glass, to secondary or not yadda yadda yadda...Some of it is based on scientific fact, some of it is conjecture that has become common wisdom, some of it only matters on the commercial level, and actually has no application to the homebrewer brewing 5 gallon batches....Some of it may be so tiny (like beehive mentioned) that it really doesn't matter....And some of it really only matters if you are building your own wort through all grain, and really isn't something an extract with grains, or a beginning brewer needs to worry about in the beginning....And most of it is just a matter of personal prefrence...what works for the brewer....

Some people are nearly religuous in their fervor about certain things (EAC's), and other's are the king of RDWHAHB...and they each make great beer or horrible beer...

I guess what I'm saying is not to sweat all the minituia you hear about or read about when you're starting out...

Work on your process, follow recipes or use proven kits until you get a feel for what you are doing and then tweak your process until doing what you do works for you and makes great beer, then learn to formulate your own recipe as get a handle on how each ingredient works and why you use them....And mostly, enjoy!

It's going to drive me nuts until I can actually try some of the beer.

The batch with the biggest differential showed 75 IBU's before and 58 after fixing the equipment info in beersmith.

I will try my best to relax for the next 2 months

dstar26t said:

It's going to drive me nuts until I can actually try some of the beer.

The batch with the biggest differential showed 75 IBU's before and 58 after fixing the equipment info in beersmith.

I will try my best to relax for the next 2 months

Click to expand...

We've all been there....Brewing more helps, and next thing you know you'll have a huge pipeline of beer....

Also "emptying bottles" to build up a stock of bottles is a great way to ease the pain of waiting!

FWIW, if you taste your batch and say "damn, I love it but wish it was just a little more bitter" you can do it very easily before bottling, or on a glass per glass basis using isomerized hop extract
It's pricey, but lasts a long time and may be a good thing to have around.
Also FWIW, I have never purchased any and am not very motivated to do so. I generally appreciate everything I make for what it is.

You could also boil up some hops for ~60min in water, cool it, and then add the bitter "tea" to taste during bottling.

mrkristofo said:

You could also boil up some hops for ~60min in water, cool it, and then add the bitter "tea" to taste during bottling.

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Hey Kristofo, how goes it?
Have you ever tried this? The theory goes that without components of the malt, the hop acids have nothing to isomerize with, and it is isomerized hops that make "bitter". But, like someone's tagline says here, "everything works in theory."

dstar26t said:

It's going to drive me nuts until I can actually try some of the beer.

The batch with the biggest differential showed 75 IBU's before and 58 after fixing the equipment info in beersmith.

I will try my best to relax for the next 2 months

Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry much about it. Your "mistake" is not really that big of a deal. You've made beer and your beer will be good. Once you taste it if you think it should be more bitter then you'll know what to do next time. Its a learning process, and it never stops. In a few months when a new brewer posts here and says "OH NO, I think I underhopped my IPA" you'll be able to speak to that person from experience.

I don't recommend making any additions like hop tea to your beer at this point. There might be a rationale for that in some circumstances (like if you totally forgot to add any bittering hops at all, which has happened), but not in this case.

Thanks for the advice. I'm an engineer by day, so close attention to detail usually carries over to hobbies which can be a good AND bad thing

Germey said:

Hey Kristofo, how goes it?
Have you ever tried this? The theory goes that without components of the malt, the hop acids have nothing to isomerize with, and it is isomerized hops that make "bitter". But, like someone's tagline says here, "everything works in theory."

Click to expand...

It goes good Germey, hope the same is for you. Sorry we didn't get to meet up again while you were in town...that comp was keeping me busy until 5, and I rapidly passed out each night at about 6.

Back on topic... all they need to isomerize are protons, and there's plenty of that in water. Plus because iso-alpha-acids are soluble in water, and alpha acids are not, so the fact that you are boiling the hops in water to make the soluble product drives the reaction forward. Yes, I've boiled hops in water to make a hop-tea before, and it was too bitter to drink. My chinese friend loved it though.

Certainly adding a bit of gypsum or epsom salts would help with the extraction and provide a bit of a buffer, but shouldn't be necessary.

I've never tried adding the hop tea to beer though, so who knows if it will even be noticeable. I ran the numbers for 1oz of hops at 6.3% alpha through the different utilization formulas, assuming a 60min boil length of 24oz of water (sg=1.000), which would evaporate down to ~8-12oz by the end of the boil. I then took that volume (12oz) and the IBU's and diluted it into a 5.0gal batch. The end result was the theoretical increase in IBU's:

Basic Formula: 25.0% Utilization (1258.18 IBU) --> +23.6 IBU in 5gal
Daniels: 29.9% (1503.97 IBU) --> +28.2 IBU
Fowler: 34.2% (1721.43 IBU) --> +32.2 IBU
Garetz: 21.5% (1081.73 IBU) --> +20.27 IBU
Mosher: 24.2% (1219.88 IBU) --> +22.86 IBU
Rager: 30% (1511.42 IBU) --> +28.2 IBU
Tinseth: 35.9% (1809.16 IBU) --> +33.9 IBU


~1500IBU's in 12oz of "hop tea"....no wonder it wasn't drinkable.

Of course, take those numbers with a grain of salt, or better yet a shaker of salt, because there's a lot of variable that were just "assumed" to not have any effect other than what occurs in wort in addition to the assumptions made in the formulae themselves. It was just a fun thought experiment in why it "should" work, and approximately what could happen.

Edit: Post #666