It too dang hot! My brew suffa

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Monk

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This is more venting than anything, but I pitched Nottingham dry yeast into an amber batch about a week ago and it has sorta stalled out around 1.020. It should get down to 1.009, i think. Unfortunately it's hella hot and the wort was ~78 at pitching. It carried out it's main work at around 74, I think. I was gone the first 36 hours it was fermenting, so I couldn't check on it, but it never seemed to get too excited. I'm bummed. My cooling tricks were nothing against the heat in the condo. On the happy side, it still smelled really good when I was taking gravity. Oh well. I pitched a packet of US 56 to see if that might help. If it doesn't go down, do you guys have any advice???

Thanks in advance.

monk(y) in Vegas

P.s. Surrounded by crappy beer this weekend, I rediscovered the fact that Sierra Nevada PA i a kickass beer. Good on 'em.
 
I think the guru's of this stuff will want your OG and your yeasts attenuating %'ge??

Yea, SNPA is some good stuff. Drinking my clone at the moment...
 
I don't take OG, since I do only extract+specialty grains recipes. I take grav readings when I think there might be a problem (as in this case). I think what happened was that I started off too warm and the yeast went crazy and then sedimented quickly. It's an English yeast strain, known for being pretty flocculant. What can you do? :(

What if I made a starter and added it to the batch? Would that do anything?

Monk
 
I've been given the tip of gently swirling a carboy once a day to make sure fermentation has stopped.

Still, the guru's will want the exact yeast type and it's attenuation value as well as your estimated OG.
 
Thank you. I'm going to keep trying the swirl technique. In the meantime, I also made a starter that I'll add tonight.
 
I'm curious if you used Laaglander's DME?

Early flocculation could be the culprit--but a highly unfermentable wort (lots of crystal malt or certain DMEs do it too) could be the problem as well.
 
Hmmm. No, I didn't use Laaglander's. I used 6 lbs. of Alexander's liquid amber ME. Here's the whole recipe:

6 lbs. of Alexander's amber LME
2 oz. biscuit malt
.5 lb. Crystal malt (.25 of 60L; .25 of 120L)
1.5 tsp Gypsum in kettle water

1.25 oz. Cascade 60 min
.75 oz. Willamette 1 min

I was also thinking that the LME was a bit older than what I usually use. I had it sitting in the closet for a couple months before use. I don't know if that could've affected it, too.

Thanks for your replies, guys.
 
Well, here's an update:

I made a nice little 1 qt starter yesterday and this evening it was at fever pitch. Nice krausen and visual activity. So I pitched it into the "black hole of fermentation" wort. Since then, I've swirled twice, but no bubbles. :( I don't know what else to do. And on top of that, it's taking up room in my primary carboy, room that should be occupied by beer that's WORKING. What's going on?

sad Monk
 
Well, as of today, my amber ale has been in the secondary for 2 days (it was in primary for 18 or 19 days). When I racked it, i left the widget off the racking cane so lots of sediment and yeast would get into the secondary. Lots did. No activity though. :( I filled one pint bottle and primed it. Within 1 day, the pint was partly carbonated. I don't understand this stuff. It can't be done (1.023 fg, from a ~1.045 og), but the yeast is alive. Why won't it eat the remaining sugars? I used extract and spec grains. Any opinions, guys?

monk
 
I just did an IPA that I thought was stuck( OG was 1.050, checked G was 1.028). I pitched a starter in the secondary - a little activity but not much. I eventually got tired of waiting and bottled the sucker about a week ago. No bombs yet, and it is one darn good IPA with a healthy malt presence that carrys through. I used the Laaglander's stuff so I suppose that is why the gravity was so high.

I think you will just end up with a malty beer which is not a bad thing. The crystal malt sugars are not fermentable if you steep it only, so maybe that is the culprit. Add half a gallon on water at bottling time if you want to thin it out.
 
I am having a similar problem. I brewed my first extract batch (5lbs light, 2lbs dark), which was a recipe I created myself using beersmith. (may not be good, but the wort tastes wonderful).

After 3 weeks, I went to bottle the beer, and on a whim measured the gravity. 1.044! To start the batch, I had pitched a rehydrated packet of Nottinghams, and there was visable action to begin with, so I left the batch alone. But I guess that action stopped pretty quickly. I have since repitched with a rehydrated Safale 04 pack, which once again had limited activity...and then none. This evening I pitched 2 dry packs of Safale 04, and saw some activity to begin with, and now very little.

Is there such thing as unfermentable DME? My LHBS have very little customer activity from what I have seen, and was recently sold to a new owner in February. I am have a feeling that the stock is old. Can DME go bad?

My efforts the last few days have reduced the gravity to 1.36, so I am going to leave it for a long time. But things do not look good.

Hope your brew makes it Monk, but I fear we might be in the same non-fermenting boat!

Cheers,

Rhino
 
Dang, guys. Thanks for the moral support, seriously. The stuck ferment is a bummer. I might eventually go with the idea that ChillHayze offered, to thin it a bit and bottle, hoping for no bottle bombs. Let me know how your brews turn out, guys, and I'll do the same.

monk
 
lack of O2 may be the culprit here. If your pitching more yeast are you adding more O2 as well? Remember yeast will sufficate and die without O2. Just a thought
JJ
 
Dry yeast, especially US 56, is not supposed to need extra oxygenation. I'm not sure why, but that's what I've read over and over. Once you get used to oxygenating wort for liquid yeasts, you tend to always want to do it. But the instructions say plainly that it isn't needed. Go figure. I think next time I'll shake the crap out of the carboy just for good measure. ;)
 
Yeah, discarding the crystal malt which doesn't ferment anyway. You are getting about 54% app. Attentuation. That yeats usually hits 77% or more. WIth proper aeration, I get 80% regularily.

Did you aerate?
What temp was your ferm
Definately swirl the carboy to get the yeast roused.

Your temp was to high for his yeast, BUT that should only result in odd esters/phenolics and should have resulted in a very fast high atten. ferment. Could the yeast have been old?
 
DFC: I aerated as normal for dry yeast. I "roused" like hell--that yeast is in a coma.

But I have a NEW THEORY.

Here it is. I've been doing quite a bit of research online and on paper regarding this late extract addition idea. (I'm no chemist or even a real technically minded brewer, at this point, so the research is pretty "light", but...) Obviously, a big contributor to the lit is the article in BYO, "Boil the hops, not the Extract". Most of us read it, and we at homebrewtalk discussed it. When I did a search online, I found out that every other homebrewer read it too, and they all talked about it on their (inferior) forums. What is also helpful is that many professionals wrote in response to it as well (http://www.cascadiabrew.com/damn_it_jim.asp). Basically, it seems like a real good idea to add extract late in the boil (not all of it, of course). It contributes to lighter, more accurately hued brews, and eliminates much unwanted carmelization.
Here's where my THEORY comes in. I read several times in the articles of some professionals that carmelization not only makes for a burnt sugar taste and darker color, but when sugars are carmelized they become less susceptible to breakdown by yeast. Thus, you get a sweeter beer because the yeast was not able to attenuate as much as it would have. This leads me to think of this scenario:
I'm brewing a batch of amber ale, so I'm (mistakenly) not worried about carmelization at all. After all, it's already pretty dark. I add all the fermentables to a partial boil--7 lbs of LME to make ~3 gallons of wort. I boil the hell out of it for 70 minutes or so, probably carmelizing the pooty out of the extract. I add it to like 1 gallon of cool water. I had no chiller, so the wort is at about 85 when I pitch the poor nottingham. Nottingham goes nuckin' futs when it gets rehydrated and eats all the sugar it finds, which is not all that much, considering how most of the sugar is mega carmelized. Nottingham, as is its wont, finishes up the easy stuff and says,
"oy mates, let's flocculate! It's bloody 'ot in 'ere and those sugars are 'ard to eat! Anyway, this Yank wanted some high flocculatin' chaps--'at's why he bought us."
And so nottingham goes into a coma on the bottom of my carboy. A few days later, I add some US 56,
"whoaaaa! dudes! There's totally no sugar in here, except for this carmelized junk. And check out all the brits asleep on the floor! bummer!"
US 56, as is its wont, doesn't flocculate and just hangs out (slight suspension pun) waiting for the priming sugar.

So, what do you guys think? (Other than that I have too much time on my hands to write long, bizarre posts.)

monk
 
I used to boil extract for 90 minutes and never had a problem with carmelization effecting fermentation. You'd half to be doing a very concentrated boil to carmelize that much.

Have you tried another hydrometer?

The yeast may have been old/bad. How is the saf 56 doing?
 
monk,
I think you may be on to something with the carmelization theory. I had a couple of batches that I found to be too sweet for my taste and I decided to try making as big as a boil as possible (I only have a 4 gallon brewpot so I can only boil about 3 to 3 1/2 gallons.) and to be as careful as possible in adding the DME / LME, to prevent carmelization at the bottom of the kettle. What I do is I heat the water to 170, then turn the burner off for the entire steeping. when the steep is done I'm at about 130 when I mix in my LME / DME /Maltodextrine. I mix the heck out of it, and only then turn on the heat to boil. getting to to boil takes for ever and is a huge pain, but I;ve had cleaner tasting beers since then.
 
Dennys Fine Consumptibles said:
Have you tried another hydrometer?

No...don't have access to one. It seemed to work fine on previous brews...

Dennys Fine Consumptibles said:
The yeast may have been old/bad. How is the saf 56 doing?

Maybe the first packet, but the second one was added in a starter. The starter was fermenting nicely when I pitched it in. That's why I think it's either a high quantity of unfermentables or a bad hydrometer. Because that starter batch of yeast was ready to go, and after about 6 hours there was NO activity. Nothing I've added (including the safale repitch) produced any discernible activity or change in hydro reading. :confused:

When you did your 90 min boils, what was the total boil volume and size of kettle? Just curious.

Monk
 
21 Qt. canning pot.

Try some champagne yeast. Lalvin 1118 works great. Rehydrate 2 packs for optimum results.

If it is a problem with unfermentables that will at least ferment all the fermentables left, leaving just the unfermentables behind.

Try saying that 3 times quickly.
 
Dennys Fine Consumptibles said:
21 Qt. canning pot.

Try some champagne yeast. Lalvin 1118 works great. Rehydrate 2 packs for optimum results.

If it is a problem with unfermentables that will at least ferment all the fermentables left, leaving just the unfermentables behind.

Try saying that 3 times quickly.


That's a good idea. I might try that if, after I've taken a hydro reading again, there's no change in gravity. I'd like it to be below 1.020, at least. Thanks, DFC.

monk
 
Just bottle and drink it. If the gravity is not moving let it be and move on. If this is an issue for every batch thats one thing, but an isolated occurance is another. All this talk about a high FG and I don't recall any mentions of how it tasted.

Let me switch gears but will come back to the first part. If you are able to prime and bottle with good results than it sounds like there may be something that the yeast can't break down and ferment leaving the high gravity. Adding more yeast, oxygen, swirling etc. is not going to change this. In this case something like Beano (I believe that's what it is called) might break it down so it will ferment out. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, I have only read about it in other posts and understand this is how it makes for a drier beer.

Back to what I started to say. If you taste a sample and is something you can live with then why not move on. I have recently had a couple batches finish a little sweeter than I wanted, changed my recipe and brewed more. Before the revisions were ready to drink, the original was long gone and wished I had paced myself better so I would have not run out of finished product.
 
PT Ray said:
In this case something like Beano (I believe that's what it is called) might break it down
Are you kidding? Beano will break down some unfermentable sugars and allow fermenation to continue? It doesn't sound too hard to believe, and I like it. Somebody has to know more about this...please post!!!:eek:
 
PT Ray said:
All this talk about a high FG and I don't recall any mentions of how it tasted.

I didn't mention that it tastes sweet because, frankly, that doesn't give anyone very much information. If I post a message that says, "my beer tastes too sweet!" what kind of responses will I most likely get? Recipe modifications, questions about what I normally "like" my beer to taste like, etc. Gravity is a quantifiable attribute and is the focus of my problem. I was really more interested in hearing from people who might give me usable advice on that issue than boring everyone with my subjective opinion and/or vague descriptions of my wort.
 
Yuri_Rage said:
Are you kidding? Beano will break down some unfermentable sugars and allow fermenation to continue? It doesn't sound too hard to believe, and I like it. Somebody has to know more about this...please post!!!:eek:
I have read a little about some folks using Beano but it makes a very dry beer.It contains an enzyme that is similar to the one in malt wort. Look here at question #35 for a quick explanation. >http://hbd.org/forums/bvfaq.html#FAQ35
 
Monk said:
I didn't mention that it tastes sweet because, frankly, that doesn't give anyone very much information. If I post a message that says, "my beer tastes too sweet!" what kind of responses will I most likely get? Recipe modifications, questions about what I normally "like" my beer to taste like, etc. Gravity is a quantifiable attribute and is the focus of my problem. I was really more interested in hearing from people who might give me usable advice on that issue than boring everyone with my subjective opinion and/or vague descriptions of my wort.

I fully understand. Had I replied earlier in the thread my post would have been soley focused towards obtaining a reasonable FG. However, I caught it after three pages of replies and several prior attempts with no luck. This far into the game left me unclear if it was still a focus on lowering the gravity and/or having closure to the cause or having something that would still be a decent product.

Again, it sounds as if there is something that brewers yeast will not break down. This is based on being able to prime and bottle and have a secondary fermentation. I think this can also be confirmed by boiling some sugar and adding it to your fermenter. If this causes some activity, I don't see that you have a stuck fermentation.
 
I think you're right, PT Ray. My speculation was more along the lines of trying to understand why this type of thing happens, than merely to get the batch into a drinkable condition. With the help of others, I've pretty much eliminated the other possibilities and come to the same conclusion you offer: there's stuff in there that can't be fermented; my yeast is not to blame. Why is there unfermentable stuff? I don't know. And it looks as if I'm not in any position to find out. So I shall follow your other advice at this point: just bottle it and drink it. :) But in plastic two-liters...just in case.
 
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