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Fellow HB's...well I ventured into my first AG brew last weekend! My issue is that I used an insane amount of hops (hopburst ale) 16oz to 6 gal wort...the filtration is not as good as I would have liked. I am seeing the TRUB as a mostly green tan appearance. I am wondering, with so much hop sludge is there a better filter to use or should I switch to hop extracts? I want to maintain the integrity of the brew by using real hops but my filter is just not catching as much as I think it should..any help is appreciated!
thanks :rockin:
 
chrisinpgh said:
Fellow HB's...well I ventured into my first AG brew last weekend! My issue is that I used an insane amount of hops (hopburst ale) 16oz to 6 gal wort...the filtration is not as good as I would have liked. I am seeing the TRUB as a mostly green tan appearance. I am wondering, with so much hop sludge is there a better filter to use or should I switch to hop extracts? I want to maintain the integrity of the brew by using real hops but my filter is just not catching as much as I think it should..any help is appreciated!
thanks :rockin:
Click to expand...

The trub isn't going to hurt anything. when you rack it to keg/secondary/bottling bucket you'll leave it all behind
 
brettwasbtd said:
Grain absorbtion is approximately .125 gallons per pound of grain. So 12 .125 = 1.5 gallons absorbed by the grain. So you would be able to get 2.25 (3.75 - 1.5) gallons of wort out of that. Sparge with a remaining volume X so you reach your target pre boil volume. 2.25 + X = Y

I like to collect 7.5 gallon to start my boil. evaporate of 1.5 gallons in an hour boil and arrive at my 6 gallon planned batch size. In the equation above my X value would be 5.25 gallons of sparge water to equal my pre boil of 7.5
Click to expand...

You evaporate 1.5 gallons / hour???
 
"Try doing a batch with store bought water, see if you get any improvement. If so, you've found your culprit and can start working out how to address it."

I have brewed two batches with my old 5 gallon cooler.

One with tap water and one with store bought water

53 % efficiency on one batch and 59% on the last batch. I'm now wondering if fly sparging and or switching to a false bottom will help?
I currently have a 1/2" stainless braid for my 5 gallon and a 1" for my 10 gallon tun.

3 gal and 5 gal batch procedures: ( water quantity is the only variable)
Heat water to 163. Usually around 5 gal, but follow Beersmith
Add my grain ( crushed to .39). Add 5.2 and stir for 3-4 mins,
Insert temp probe to monitor temps inside Tun. Always hit 150-152 and hold for 60 minutes. ( last batch was 75 mins).
I then drain slowly (vorlof) 4 quarts and add back in, pouring through collander.
I then drain slowly at first and then open valve all the way. To fully drain tun.
I then add sparge water. 180 degree. Around 3 gallons. I stir 4-5 mins and then vorlof again just like above. Drain slowly and then open valve fully. I measure collected wort and take prevail gravity.

Anything stick out as the source for my poor efficiency?

Thanks!
 
DHUKILL said:
Add my grain ( crushed to .39).
Add 5.2 and stir for 3-4 mins,
Insert temp probe to monitor temps inside Tun.

Anything stick out as the source for my poor efficiency?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

stop using 5.2. it doesn't stabilize your PH at 5.2. think about it. How does the company making it know what your starting PH is? How do they know what type of grain you're using? They don't and can't adjust your PH magically by adding one product. Besides if you search here you'll find PLENTY of posts about how it didn't work.

When you tried store bought water, did you adjust the water at all? Other than 5.2? Was it distilled water? or spring water? If distilled you need to add salts back into it. Check the water chemistry section to learn more about that. TW, A lot of the store bought "Spring Water" really comes from a city water source, you know... tap water :)

if you crush your own grains, try conditioning the grain and then crushing at a finer setting.
 
Mysticmead said:
stop using 5.2. it doesn't stabilize your PH at 5.2. think about it. How does the company making it know what your starting PH is? How do they know what type of grain you're using? They don't and can't adjust your PH magically by adding one product. Besides if you search here you'll find PLENTY of posts about how it didn't work.

When you tried store bought water, did you adjust the water at all? Other than 5.2? Was it distilled water? or spring water? If distilled you need to add salts back into it. Check the water chemistry section to learn more about that. TW, A lot of the store bought "Spring Water" really comes from a city water source, you know... tap water :)

if you crush your own grains, try conditioning the grain and then crushing at a finer setting.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I have researched the 5.2 topic and even mentioned it in my previous post that I have started to doubt the validity of the claims. I agree with you on "how could this work"? But got suckered in when I first started brewing and didn't know any better :)


The water I bought was spring water which has a PH of 6.

Http://www.crystalgeyser.com/docs/bottled_water_report_arkansas_colgrove.pdf

After running these numbers through the EZ water calculator, it says my mash was 5.65.

This leaves me with double crushing or narrowing the gap of my mill just a tiny bit to see if this helps.
 
5.2 is a Ph buffer. It generally works to keep the Ph of your mash from falling below 5.2,regardless of starting point. I say generally because if you have a abnormal water profile or a grain bill with large amounts of roasted malts it may not do the job well enough. IMO, using 5.2 is a good alternative to doing nothing. Understanding your water profile and grain bill and adjusting accordingly is best.
 
Mysticmead said:
look into conditioning the grain.. its real easy to do and will allow you to go MUCH tighter on the gap while leaving the husks mostly intact (which is needed for the filter bed)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/if-you-not-conditioning-your-grain-check-out-255860/
Click to expand...

I ran about 6 lbs through my mill last night and ended up with complete husk intact. I'm going to dial down the mill to .25 and run the other half through for my next batch.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll post back my efficiency next week. Cheers!!
 
DHUKILL said:
I ran about 6 lbs through my mill last night and ended up with complete husk intact. I'm going to dial down the mill to .25 and run the other half through for my next batch.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll post back my efficiency next week. Cheers!!
Click to expand...

For those who haven't tried conditioning their grains, this is one of the best tips I have received on HBT for improving efficiency. I brewed up a Pale Ale (all hopped up of course) and got 71% efficiency for the first time. Conditioning allowed me to tighten up to .20 gap on my mill. I may try to tighten up a little more to see if I can get even more efficiency next time. :rockin:
 
Two questions:

1) What's the rate of boil off?

2) iodine test vs mash time/temp: if my calculations or recipe says mash at 154 for one hour, how does the iodine test factor? If I still show starch present after an hour, should I keep mashing?
 
mike_in_ak said:
Two questions:

1) What's the rate of boil off?

2) iodine test vs mash time/temp: if my calculations or recipe says mash at 154 for one hour, how does the iodine test factor? If I still show starch present after an hour, should I keep mashing?
Click to expand...

1) easy answer. put 5 gallons of water in your kettle. boil for 1 hour. measure the amount left. that's your boil off.

2) if iodine shows starches present, keep mashing. the time given in a recipe is what the creator of that recipe used to achieve conversion. it might be longer for you.
 
Mysticmead said:
1) easy answer. put 5 gallons of water in your kettle. boil for 1 hour. measure the amount left. that's your boil off.
Click to expand...

This changes with atmospheric changes. It may require more or less heat to achieve a boil depending on air temp and humidity which will change the boil off rate.

Running a test like you suggest will get you close, but without controlled conditions, it will be an estimate. Should be a close one, but it won't be exact.
 
jtkratzer said:
This changes with atmospheric changes. It may require more or less heat to achieve a boil depending on air temp and humidity which will change the boil off rate.

Running a test like you suggest will get you close, but without controlled conditions, it will be an estimate. Should be a close one, but it won't be exact.
Click to expand...

as you said it changes with atmospheric conditions...which of course change all the time. there is no way to get an exact boil off rate even with controlled conditions because as soon as you leave those conditions, it will change. however, it will get you close enough to make beer :) . With time and many brews under your belt you will earn your equipment. Mine for instance I know I boil off more in the winter than the summer. This is because the air is less humid in the winter. so I account for that by adding a little extra to my boil volume.
 
Lots of new AG brewers find low OG's (.030) so picking your first brew as an APA would be a good idea or at least adding 1 or2 extra pounds of two row to up the ABV. If it's a little high great, if it's not it will still be a good beer.
 
RichBrewer said:
I've seen a lot of threads started concerning problems with peoples first all grain brews.
I would like to give a couple suggestions that might help improve the process for new AG brewers. Here are a couple common problems I've seen:

1. Low efficiency.
I have found that the most common thread here is not using enough water during mashing and sparging. All you need to do is figure 1 to 1 1/4 quarts of water per pound of grain for the mash and about 1/2 gallon of water per pound of grain for sparging.
I think some folks are concerned about too much wort volume when they are figuring how much water to use but if you want decent efficiency you have to use the correct amount of water.
If your brew pot isn't big enough for the volume required you will need to compensate by using more grain and know that your efficiency will be lower. (You will want to use the 1 to 1 1/4 quart per pound of grain for the mash and adjust your sparge water for the volume required)
If you have a large enough brew pot you will need to calculate the boil time so you will have the correct volume when completed. Some high gravity brews can take 2 hours or more to boil down to the correct volume.
2. Missing the mash temperature. (Usually low when using cooler type mash tuns)
To avoid this common problem there are two things I suggest:
1. Pre-heat your mash tun with hot or boiling water. This water is drained from the tun right before the strike water is added. Using this method will pre-heat the tun so not as much heat will be pulled from the strike water when added .
2. Heat your strike water about 2 or 3 degrees above your target temp, pour the water into the tun, and let the temp drop to your target. By the time you reach your strike temp, the tun should be conditioned and when the grains are mixed in you will hit your desired mash temp and it will hold longer.

I hope this helps for you first timers or even folks who are struggling with AG brewing. :mug:
Click to expand...

Rich,
I am new to AG and i have a quesion about a recipe that i want to try. It is a Bourbon Vanilla Porter and it has 16 lbs of grain is how much water would you use to sparge for a 5 gal batch
 
that question is not that easy to answer you need 1 1/3 to 1 1/4 quarts to each pound of grain
then to figure out sparge water you need to factor in absorbtion loss, dead space in your tun, your boil off rate loss to trub in boil pot and fermentor

add all that up and subtract mash water to get that answer
 
so with Beersmith
mash in with 20 Quarts
absorbtion of almost 2 gallons
2 sparges with 2 gallons a piece
assuming a loss of 1/4 Q in tun
pre boil volume of almost 7 gallons
assuming a boil off rate of 15% and cooling loss of 4%
post boil volume of 5 1/2 gallons
loss to trub in fermentor of a couple quarts
gets you near 5 finished product
 
kodyind said:
Rich,
I am new to AG and i have a quesion about a recipe that i want to try. It is a Bourbon Vanilla Porter and it has 16 lbs of grain is how much water would you use to sparge for a 5 gal batch
Click to expand...

Does that happen to be my recipe? I mash about 1.6-1.75 qt./lb. Then sparge with enough water to get your boil volume. Are you fly or batch sparging?
 
kodyind said:
Rich,
I am new to AG and i have a quesion about a recipe that i want to try. It is a Bourbon Vanilla Porter and it has 16 lbs of grain is how much water would you use to sparge for a 5 gal batch
Click to expand...

simple answer.... drain your mash tun and measure the amount collected from first running in kettle. add the remaining water needed to reach pre-boil volume as sparge water. vorlauf and drain to kettle.

more complicated answers.. read the posts above.
 
Mysticmead said:
simple answer.... drain your mash tun and measure the amount collected from first running in kettle. add the remaining water needed to reach pre-boil volume as sparge water. vorlauf and drain to kettle.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. That's why I asked if he was batch sparging.
 
TexLaw said:
That's a mighty good tip. Also, it's not a bad idea to keep a few pounds of light DME handy, so you really don't have to worry about efficiency. :)


TL
Click to expand...

So, I am planning on moving to AG in the next year or so and I thought (quite correctly I might add!) that this thread would be a great place to start.

If I am truly understanding this AG thing, does this quote essentially mean that after I am all done with an AG attempt, if my gravity is low (which means that my efficiency was low?) that I merely add light DME until my gravity is up where I want it??
 
brewkinger said:
So, I am planning on moving to AG in the next year or so and I thought (quite correctly I might add!) that this thread would be a great place to start.

If I am truly understanding this AG thing, does this quote essentially mean that after I am all done with an AG attempt, if my gravity is low (which means that my efficiency was low?) that I merely add light DME until my gravity is up where I want it??
Click to expand...

I use a refractometer and BeerSmith when All-grain brewing. When you have all of your wort in the kettle ready to boil, take a refractometer reading and determine your pre-boil gravity. Beersmith will automatically tell you what this should be. For example, if I am doing a 60-minute boil on my Breakfast Stout with a target OG of 1.087, my pre-boil gravity will likely be 1.077. BeerSmith accounts for the boil off and is usually spot on.

If my pre-boil gravity is way off, I will add some DME or Corn Sugar to bring it up. If I am within a few points, I will start the boil and take another measurement about 15 minutes from the end of the boil. If I am off at that point, I will add whatever DME I need to hit my target OG.

The nice thing about most refractometers is that they can measure hot wort. You only use 1 drop of liquid, so it cools on the instrument immediately.
 
Denny said:
Does that happen to be my recipe? I mash about 1.6-1.75 qt./lb. Then sparge with enough water to get your boil volume. Are you fly or batch sparging?
Click to expand...

Denny
Yes it is yours, and tell me how either way, i have not decided to fly or batch. Thanks for your help and this recipe sounds great

Jim
 
kodyind said:
Denny
Yes it is yours, and tell me how either way, i have not decided to fly or batch. Thanks for your help and this recipe sounds great

Jim
Click to expand...

Well, if you batch sparge it's easy. Decide on your mash ratio and mash with that amount of water. After you run it off, measure how much you got from the mash. Subtract that from the ampunt you want to boil. The answer you get is how much to sparge with.
 
I batch spared for the first time and my efficiency improved from 75% to 81% - yeah! - but even after using Irsh moss at the usual rate, my beer remained cloudy.
It tastes phenomenal though! My next brew I fly-sparged (same as the past 15 years) and hit 75% as expected, then got a little distracted by a new 'assistant/home-brew drinker' and forgot Irish moss and the damn beer is cloudy again! understand that it still tastes phenomenal!
 
Brew-Dawg said:
I batch spared for the first time and my efficiency improved from 75% to 81% - yeah! - but even after using Irsh moss at the usual rate, my beer remained cloudy.
It tastes phenomenal though! My next brew I fly-sparged (same as the past 15 years) and hit 75% as expected, then got a little distracted by a new 'assistant/home-brew drinker' and forgot Irish moss and the damn beer is cloudy again! understand that it still tastes phenomenal!
Click to expand...

what style of beer? are you dry hopping? are you doing anything post fermentation to clear the beer like cold crashing? gelatin? bio-fine clear?
 
Mysticmead said:
what style of beer? are you dry hopping? are you doing anything post fermentation to clear the beer like cold crashing? gelatin? bio-fine clear?
Click to expand...

It's 10 gals of Pale Ale so it is very evident - looks like a Wheat (but none used). I added 4 oz of Hops at knockout, so maybe that's it. I have never used a fining agent (never had to) and cold crashing was not possible. I kegged it all and it is very good. My wife says to serve it in a ceramic stein!
 
honestly, its just a visual thing. you can add bio-fine clear in the keg and give it 24-48 hours to drop clear or use gelatin in the keg. I use bio-fine if I want a crystal clear beer. If I don't really care of it is a bit cloudy, then I skip the finings (other than whirlfloc during the boil). serve it in ceramics if you think that people will judge the beer based on sight otherwise, serve and enjoy
 
thanks everyone for the posts, i'll be sure to follow these guidelines when brewing my first all grain brew in a few weeks!
 
RichBrewer said:
All you need to do is figure 1 to 1 1/4 quarts of water per pound of grain for the mash and about 1/2 gallon of water per pound of grain for sparging.
:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post on this topic. I've done a half dozen batches of AG and keep coming up short on my OG numbers and am looking for some answers.

You suggest 1.25 qts/lb grain which is what I have been trying to do. I was reading Palmer's "How to Brew" tonight and he suggests 1.5 - 2.0 qts./lb. grain and was thinking maybe this was an area where I was off the beam a tad. This point seems critical to me. Could you please explain why the different opinion on this?

Thanks.
 
You need to look at your recent numbers and determine if you are CONSISTENTLY low on your OG numbers. If so, then just adjust your efficiency in your calculations. I brew a variety of beers from pale ales to maibocks with target OG varying from 1.045 to 1.070 and they all have a hard limit of 10 gallons available space in my mash tun. Accordingly, my mash thickness (water to grain ratio) varies more than other things in my process, yet I still hit 78% efficiency. Here is also a place where the efficiency number doesn't matter (to a large extent) but consistency does. If you are hell bent on raising efficiency (I say place your efforts elsewhere for now) then look at your lauter tun deadspace and your lautering technique first.
 
eyedoctodd said:
If you are hell bent on raising efficiency (I say place your efforts elsewhere for now) then look at your lauter tun deadspace and your lautering technique first.
Click to expand...

Your points were well taken. I've learned quite a lot through discussions on this site. That has helped me better understand what I'm reading so I revisited chapters on this subject in How to Brew. I felt I had a lot better handle on what I was doing and why as I made a batch of amber ale yesterday. And I hit the projected low side OG. And the wort tastes great.

I love it when a plan comes together!

Thanks!
 
brewkinger said:
If I am truly understanding this AG thing, does this quote essentially mean that after I am all done with an AG attempt, if my gravity is low (which means that my efficiency was low?) that I merely add light DME until my gravity is up where I want it??
Click to expand...

Yes. And here's how to do it...take your recipe's Target Starting Gravity (post boil) x target batch size to get targeted gravity units. Then take your actual gravity x your actual volume to get actual gravity points. Take the difference and divide by 45 (gravity units of DME) to get the amount in lbs of DME to add.

For example if Target Gravity was 1.061 and 5.5 gallons is batch size, then 61 x 5.5 = 335.5 gravity units. Then say your gravity was only 1.052 and you only had 5.25 gallons, (52 x 5.25 = 286 GU's). 335.5-286 = 49.5/45 = 1.1 lbs of DME to add.

Another option is to just keep boiling, you will have less beer, but will hit your target. In this case, you take your actual gravity units and divide by targeted gravity. So with the example of above 286 GU divided by 61 = 4.69 gallons. This is the amount you would boil down to in order to hit your gravity, so in this case, you would have .81 gallons less of beer. :(
 
Thank you for the info, did my first recipe yesterday and had an issue with how much liquid to sparge and mash with, I simply followed the recipe instructions and scaled it down. Fell a little short, but will use this ratio from now on!
 
I am about to do my first AG brew sometime soon. I have all the parts to make my mash tun, and will do that sometime this weekend.

I've done two extracts, and a partial mash (all from kits). A Red Ale, Wheat, and a tribute to the New Glarus Spotted Cow.

What would be a good suggestion for a good starting AG recipe? I am scared to start this, and if I had a good recipe to follow I'd feel a bit better
 

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