How to make a yeast starter - Pictorial

koerd85 said:

has any bunny tried making a yeast starter with wort? I have and alls i did was: take out one cup of wort after it came to boil, then let it cool, add the yeast to that cup and finally after the wort did its full boil and cooled i added the starter. Fermentation was vigorous
after just 8 hours.

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I don't think bunnies make starters.

Starters are usually run 24+ hours. Your scenario seems less than 1 hour. Maybe you just had newer yeast which didn't require a starter.

kapbrew13 said:

I don't think bunnies make starters.

Starters are usually run 24+ hours. Your scenario seems less than 1 hour. Maybe you just had newer yeast which didn't require a starter.

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it was like 2 and a half hours b/c of the full boil and cool down time

First time using a starter here... thanks to all for the comments and DB for starting off the thread with that visual. It was all very helpful.

Story: My W-yeasts (3068 & 3638) arrived on about 6.10.11. with a use by Aug-11 recommended(a time that came and went). They traveled from AHS to SoCalifornia in the summer. Austin was nice enough to pack them in ice for the trip without charge, though I didn't think the ice would get too far across country and thus never ordered it. I refrigerated it right away and have been distracted from brewing for a variety of reasons and have worried about the yeast's viability since it arrived. But, I figured at least some of it must have made it.


Well with the yeast now beyond it's use date I decided to give it a wirl yesterday 9.17.11 to see if anything survived. I made two starters (3068 and 3238) and planned to brew this week if the yeast made it. All afternoon and into the evening it looked like a dead batch, but I kept shaking it often and it falls out baadly in about an hour or so it seems. NO SIGNs of life. Maybe a tiny bit in the 3238 just maybe that bubble wasn't from all the swirling. Well, this morning NOTHING.. still dead and I brought out some new yeast I have in the fridge to make a starter for a different beer.

I was considering just draining off the wort from yesterday for it. Swirled the stuff around again and noticed, it bubbles up a bit... more then yesterday FOR SURE. So, there hAS to be something going on in there.

A couple hours later and several vigorous swirlings, and each time there is large amounts of carbination coming off now when I swirl it.

So, YES, it looks like we have a starter coming along to test them out on split 10 gallons to see which yeast I like better, though I am pretty sure 3068 is it already. It was a scarey time and I am very glad I didn't toss the two starters this morning at the point when it was looking like it was all bad. It was kinda depressing as I had thought that at least some cells would make it. Glad they did, and we'll see what they can do come brew day this week or next weekend.

Thanks again all.

I keep coming back here and using this, just wanted to say thanks!

Updated info, everybody. Let me know what you think.

Ran into some trouble. I was in a hurry (I know, the most common mistake, rushing yourself) and read just the first post.

I thought 1/2 cup DME PER 500ml water. I was making a 1600 ml starter

So, is that gonna be bad, or not so bad?

1600ml, 1 & 1/2 cups DME

I am using a stirplate and doing 5 gallons.

My guess, use only 1L of the starter.

so whats the difference in a starter and reusing washed yeast?

also if you make a starter you want to use it with in 24hrs,,, if not refridgerate and use within a week?

when reusing washed yeast.... is the cell count going to be high like using a starter?

Can someone tell me if the temp you ferment your starters at matters.

In other words, if I ferment my starter too warm, will the subsequent generations of yeast be "stressed," and more likely to generate off flavors?

HItransplant said:

Can someone tell me if the temp you ferment your starters at matters.

In other words, if I ferment my starter too warm, will the subsequent generations of yeast be "stressed," and more likely to generate off flavors?

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I try to keep them within the recommended range given by the manufacturer. You're not making beer, just growing yeast, but I figure the strain was optimized for these temps so why not keep it there?

HItransplant said:

Can someone tell me if the temp you ferment your starters at matters.

In other words, if I ferment my starter too warm, will the subsequent generations of yeast be "stressed," and more likely to generate off flavors?

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Thus far, I've made about 8 starters now. MOST of them would have been stressed at too high of temperatures.....HOWEVER,... all of my beers have very happily turned out awesome IMO, and my reviewers gave outstanding comments. I would worry about too high or low temps normally, but given the results thus far my yeast will continue to get starters at whatever temperature is on the counter of my bathroom. [My yeast temps have been probably anywhere from 63F to 84F, on WLP001,007,530, and Wyeast 3638, 3068]

DeathBrewer said:

Updated info, everybody. Let me know what you think.

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Looking real good to me there.

HItransplant said:

Can someone tell me if the temp you ferment your starters at matters.

In other words, if I ferment my starter too warm, will the subsequent generations of yeast be "stressed," and more likely to generate off flavors?

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Yes, it does matter.

Now, how much it matters depends on your starter-pitch method. If you're letting the starter ferment completely, chilling, and decanting, then it's not as significant an issue. BUT if you are beginning your starter 12-18 hours prior to pitch (recommended for better initial performance, but not necessarily as convenient), you will definitely want to run your starter at the same temp as the wort you will be pitching to.

Also, many questions about yeast pitching/starters are a matter of making beer, good beer, better beer, and great beer. You may get good results with one method and be happy. You also may get great results by refining your process--we all have areas we could refine. No matter the method, I would recommend running your starter as close to pitching temp as possible.

Thanks so much for this thread. I did my first yeast starter Friday night for my Saturday brewing. I made a 1 liter starter using WLP005, and after I pitched it was rocking about 4 hours later. For some reason I thought it would be difficult or a pain in the ass but it was super easy. I can't wait to try this batch!

dizzle said:

Thanks so much for this thread. I did my first yeast starter Friday night for my Saturday brewing. I made a 1 liter starter using WLP005, and after I pitched it was rocking about 4 hours later. For some reason I thought it would be difficult or a pain in the ass but it was super easy. I can't wait to try this batch!

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Yes it is a big help. I too am getting ready to make my first 1.070 beer and need to make a starter. Seems pretty straightforward once you read the thread once or twice.

Thanks so much Deathbrewer for a great thread. I had always through I needed a stir plate and flask and voodoo to make a good starter. A few days ago I followed this thread and made one in a growler that I pitched last night into a batch of skeeter pee.

Less than 12 hours later and it was chugging away like crazy, which was great considering how lemon juice can effect fermentation.

Sorry for the noob question, but is liquid yeast needed for a starter or can dry yeast be used?

Zak said:

Sorry for the noob question, but is liquid yeast needed for a starter or can dry yeast be used?

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Dry yeast has a much higher cell count an there is really no need to step up dry yeast with a starter. Liquid yeast does need a starter especially if it towards it's experation or has been stored improperly.

You can make a starter with dry yeast, but it's not necessary. There are enough live yeast cells in dry yeast to do the job. It could give you a faster start, but is not necessary for propagation.

For dry yeast, just open and pitch. I don't even recommend re-hydrating the yeast. It's too easy to get the temperature wrong and shock the yeast.

If you're using dry yeast, it's much, much, much faster, easier, and probably cheaper to just use more packs of dry yeast. And with proper rehydration (best to follow directions from yeast distributor's website--much more detailed and sometimes yeast strain specific) your fermentation should kick off just fine. Wort rehydration will shock the yeast more than being a few degrees off following the direction of the distributor. If you pitch directly from sachet to wort (a perfectly acceptable method), it wouldn't hurt to add another sachet of yeast to account for reduced cell count.

I'm doing a partial-mash 5 gallon IIPA tomorrow night and made my first ever yeast starter about an hour ago. I have a few questions:

- Do I need to step it up like described in the OP? If yes, do I have enough time if I'm planning on being ready to pitch in roughly 28-30 hours?

- When I make the "step up" wort can I just cool it down and add it to the existing starter? The OP made it seem like I should poor the existing starter into a new vessel that contains the new larger wort

- Do I have to make a larger wort for stepping it up, or can I just do another 800ml one? (2c water 1/2c DME)

Grubba said:

I'm doing a partial-mash 5 gallon IIPA tomorrow night and made my first ever yeast starter about an hour ago. I have a few questions:

- Do I need to step it up like described in the OP? If yes, do I have enough time if I'm planning on being ready to pitch in roughly 28-30 hours?

- When I make the "step up" wort can I just cool it down and add it to the existing starter? The OP made it seem like I should poor the existing starter into a new vessel that contains the new larger wort

- Do I have to make a larger wort for stepping it up, or can I just do another 800ml one? (2c water 1/2c DME)

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I just made my first starter for an IPA min mash 5 gallon exactly as instructed on this post,let it sit room temp for about 24 hours, and I had vigorous fermentation about 12 hours after pitching. I was super happy with the results.

My LHBS owner takes all of his old unsold White Labs vials and marks them down to $3.50 each. I was thinking of picking one up for the ESB I'm making this weekend. It's a good deal, but I don't know...

I would obviously get a starter going but if the yeast poops out I'm not sure if it's worth the savings. Although I've got a packet of dry yeast in the fridge, at least I won't have to run out in the middle of a brew session.

What do you guys think? Take the risk on an old vial or just play it safe?

I've done this several times and saved a lot of money!

In fact I usually ask if they have any expired vials before buying fresh!

The Yeast *should* still be good enough. Making a starter is probably a must, allowing you to build up the number of cells, and activating these dormant beasties, but as long as you see your starter moving (thickening of the bottom layer of white stuff and/or foaming of the starter), you should not have any trouble.
Some people claim to have kept yeast for over a year. I don't particularly have enough experience to claim this, but I have reactivated pretty old yeast this way.
God luck, and keep us posted!

I was talking to the owner of a LHBS near me last week and she mentioned that they decided to try brewing a beer with yeast that was close to a year old. The lag time on the starter taking off was 4 days, but it did take off and they were (eventually) able to brew with it.

JoshBrews.
I am no expert, but from what I understand, the liquid yeast has a lot of active cells. With age, some of them die, and the date on the package is mostly a "Best before" date, meaning it should take a long time before they are all dead.
Doing a starter will help grow back the number of live cells, and thus will allow you to recreate enough to brew with it.
I have heard numerous time people that kept liquid yeast for more than a year.
You might have to step up your starter quite a few times, but I don't see why you could not do it.

There's a thread here on someone using a 26 month old wyeast pack.

When possible I'll buy up to a six month expired yeast pack (heavily discounted) as I know it'll have enough viable yeast to get it up and running with a starter.

Glibbidy said:

Actually an airlock is definitely not recommended when making yeast. You need the O2 transfer in order to grow the yeast. If you were making beer, well...that's another story.
The foil is best, or one of them fancy stoppers.

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Have a question about this. If you want some oxygen exposure, but you also want to keep it mostly covered, why not just use an empty airlock?...no water or sanitizer in it so air exchange is free to move back and forth, but it is still protectively covered?

I made my first yeast starter last night and followed the pictorial directions. I did not read on and neglected to add any additional water. So I've got 2 cups of water and the yeast in the starter. I plan on using the starter tonight. Should I do anything else to it before pitching it?

Wow! This is a fantastic amount of information here. I'm moving to making starters due to an experiment I did this winter between dry and liquid yeast. From having spent over an hour reading this all here's what I think I can do. I'm currently limited to a single 2L flask with a stir plate.

For a 6 gallon batch up to about 1.070, a 1.040 1.2L starter will work.

For a 12 gallon batch (in two carboys) make the starter above and then create another mix (1.2L @1.040) and pitch the decanted first starter into that.

For higher gravity beers (6 gal) begin with 150g in 1L (1.055sg) and while that's humming away add a mix of 125g in 250ml to bump it up to 1.080. Repeat if needed to get higher.

Does this read right to you folks with more starters under your belt?

I bought the yeast nutrient to add with my brew. Do I add it to the starter or wait for the primary? Also should I use the corn syrup or the liquid malt extract for the starter? Thanks for all the help.

taterosu said:

I bought the yeast nutrient to add with my brew. Do I add it to the starter or wait for the primary? Also should I use the corn syrup or the liquid malt extract for the starter? Thanks for all the help.

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I have done both with great results but lately I have been adding it to the starter.

Use LME.

Thank you.. thats the info I needed.

Hi there.
I will describe what I do, which might not be the "right" way of doing, if such a thing exists.
I use DME (Dried Malt Extract) to do my starters. I never used anything else - it is easy to take only the quantity I want, and is easy to store and manipulate. So, using the Pictoral recipe at the begining of this thread, I normaly start right off with 4 cups of water, 1 cup of DME.
Once cooled, I pitch in my liquid yeast and a bit of nutrient. I made myslef a stirplate which I use, but I don't leave it on all the time. I normaly start it for about 1/2 hour, and then turn it off. Whenever I pass by, I turn it on again for another 1/2 hour.
After 48-72 hours, I put it in the fridge to let it separate. The next day, I remove the liquid part, only keeping the white paste at the bottom, and I do another starter as described above.
Usually after my second starter, I have enough to fill in 6 to 8 WhiteLabs tubes I got for previous breweing sessions which I kept. With these test tubes, I never had - so far at least - to do a starter to pitch in a 5gal batch...
I always keep one tube to do a new starter to "multiply" my yeast and allow me to always keep a decent quantity.
Hope this helps you.

BTW, so far, I never kept a tube for more than 6 months, but doing a starter every once in a while allows me to refresh my base yeast. Also, I never did a strater from the yeast cake of a brewing session, but I did once from a cultured bottle of Blanche de Chambly, which turned out pretty good.

...but the best way is to experiment. What might have worked for me might not work for you, but the general guidelines will aim you in the right direction.

Good luck, and don't forget to have fun while doing it!

Zoltanar said:

I made myslef a stirplate which I use, but I don't leave it on all the time. I normaly start it for about 1/2 hour, and then turn it off. Whenever I pass by, I turn it on again for another 1/2 hour.
After 48-72 hours, I put it in the fridge to let it separate. The next day, I remove the liquid part, only keeping the white paste at the bottom, and I do another starter as described above.

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Uh... Why? The purpose of a stir plate is continuous movement and O2 introduction. If you leave it running continuously you'll likely finish out a starter in 24hrs.

Jukas.
I somewhat agree with you, but my stirplate is not working as I would like.
The computer fan I used is off balance with the magnet I glued on it, and I did not have an erlenmayer (or whatever you call this thing in english), so I am using a pyrex coffee pot. My stirbar starts everyonce in a while to be off "balance" and it stops turning properly. I am not sure what is the trouble : the fan, the pot, the stirbar, or something else.
Also, when turning, the stirbar - which is not exactly round shaped, but bevelled (looks like this one http://www.uwplatt.edu/chemep/chem/chemscape/labdocs/catofp/mixpour/mixing/hp_ms/pic/stirbar2.jpg) - always makes a bit of ticking noise, so leaving it on at all time is disturbing, specialy during night.
If you have ideas of what might go wrong, let me know!

Zoltanar said:

Jukas.
I somewhat agree with you, but my stirplate is not working as I would like.
The computer fan I used is off balance with the magnet I glued on it, and I did not have an erlenmayer (or whatever you call this thing in english), so I am using a pyrex coffee pot. My stirbar starts everyonce in a while to be off "balance" and it stops turning properly. I am not sure what is the trouble : the fan, the pot, the stirbar, or something else.
Also, when turning, the stirbar - which is not exactly round shaped, but bevelled (looks like this one http://www.uwplatt.edu/chemep/chem/chemscape/labdocs/catofp/mixpour/mixing/hp_ms/pic/stirbar2.jpg) - always makes a bit of ticking noise, so leaving it on at all time is disturbing, specialy during night.
If you have ideas of what might go wrong, let me know!

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Ahh, now I understand better. Balance seems to be one of the banes of homemade stirplates. I'm still fighting with it on mine I can't turn the speed up past 1/4 on a 1L starter or 1/2 on a 2L starter before it throws the bar.

As for the dreaded ticking noise, that's an easy fix. My wife complained mightily about it as I run my stirplate in the kitchen. In the end two of the smallest diameter o-rings in a keg o-ring kit (1/4" I think?) fixed it, I've attached a pic of my stirbar for ya.

Brilliant! Thanks for the tip!
Now, if I could only have my thing ballanced....

Love the o-ring idea. I just got my stir-plate and notices the ticking sound during my test-run. I'll have to see if I have a couple of o-rings in my gear, else it's off to the LHBS!

I've never made a starter, and it looks fairly simple so I figured I'd give it a try. Mr. Malty is calling for me to use a starter that's 1.8L for Wyeast 1056 american IPA. And I only bought enough DME to put into my actual recipe. Am I going to see a significant drop in O.G. points by having to dip into my supply to step up to 1.8L? Or should I just make a 1L starter and pitch the whole jug and hope for the best? I know I'll technically be underpitching, but I've had great results by just using the smack pack by itself. Figured making a smaller starter is better then not having one at all. Or am I selling myself short here? Thanks in advance guys!

I agree with what you said : better have a small starter than none.
If you normally have success without a starter, a small one should be good enough.
Good luck