Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

How would this change if I used fresh pressed unpasteurized cider? Would that change the ferment and aging times much? My local homebrew shop is offering cider, and I want to get some of the fresh stuff while it is in season, and maybe have some ready by thanksgiving.

LogicBomb said:

A bit concerned:

Followed the recipe to a T (minus the torrified wheat) and used Safale-05. Poured the hot wort into the cool cider (fresh, unpasturized from the orchard), pitched the rehydrated yeast, and stored it away at 65F.

4 days later now, and no krausen has formed, at least in the traditional sense. What I DO see is this very thin (quarter-inch?) layer of thick, smoothish, brown "sludge" on top. It kind of looks like it could be yeast clumped together in a big round brick, but unlike any krausen I've ever seen. No bubbles from the blow-off tube either. I see no "yeast dances" in the carboy either.

Is this somewhat normal for this graff? Should I repitch another pack of yeast and give it a solid shake? Leave it be and hope for the best?

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Are you using a bucket? The one time I used a bucket, I really never saw much action since it was leaking from the lid seal. Also what temp are you fermenting?

Did you take an OG and test to see if its gone down any points? I would probably start there. That will also allow you to sample it to see if something is wrong.

I've had this in the fermenter for 2 weeks as of today. I was going to leave it for 3, but apparently we are having a big Oktoberfest party in 3 weeks, and I would love to serve this. I just checked the SG and it was at 1.008, and there has been no airlock activity in a few days.

Do you think I'm good to bottle? I hate to rush it but I don't want to serve it at the party if I don't bottle it till next weekend.

So after a week of no krausen, no airlock activity and just one giant yeast raft (which has broken up to many smaller ones now) I'm seeing a gravity reading of like 1.060 or 1.062 (I'm terrible at reading the hydrometer). And it still tastes like juice.

I forgot to take an OG but it looks like most people have OG's around that same mark - guess my yeast didn't take possibly?

Yeah if your reading is 1.060 I would say you had no fermentation going on.

BrewerBear said:

Yeah if your reading is 1.060 I would say you had no fermentation going on.

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+1

What temp are you fermenting at? Have you tried agitating it and lowering the temp assuming its too low? Otherwise, If the juice still taste good, hurry up and re-pitch.

I wanted to change it slightly and I had to go with what my lhbs has.

Went with.........

-US-05 Yeast (Pitched @ 75, Ferment at 68)
-Flaked wheat instead of torrified wheat
-8oz Crystal 155 instead of 60
-3lbs of Amber LME instead of DME
-1oz of citra @ 30 min
-El cheapo Walmart Great Valu Apple Juice

It smelled amazing so 4 weeks in primary and then at least 4 weeks in the bottle and I'll check back in.

Thanks to the OP for the recipe.

So I wasn't going to update this for a month or so, but I transferred my pumpkin pie graff to a keg to finish fermenting and to conditioning under pressure. I've been pulling samples. I've finished fermenting right at 7 brix (1.012), so I'm at about 5.3% ABV.

I am absolutely blown away with how great this is, so I started to experiment with the flavor.

I went to the store and picked up a bottle of Black Heart spiced rum. I added some of it as well as vanilla and pumpkin spices. WOAH! It turned out better than I had ever hoped. I am going to lager it until Halloween. In the mean time, I am making another batch this week. I know this first batch won't make it to Thanksgiving.

I am 1000% happy with the results. I will not change anything in my next batch except for the graham and nilla wafers. I'm not going to use them in the mash because I'm not convinced the flavors made it to the final product. I also plan on upping the brown sugar to boost the ABV to 7% and I'm going to make a yeast starter. Ill also ferment the Ringwood at a higher temp.

Now onto my next flavored graff experiment.... Chocolate Cherry Jubilee. Sounds like a good Christmas drink to me.

I purchased two 32oz bottles of 100% pure black cherry juice. Later this week I will put together an all grain chocolate stout recipe. On second thought, maybe I'll multitask. I can do a 10 gallon batch of stout. 8 gallons can go into the fermenter. Once done I can rack 5 to a corny while the other 3 can go to one of my 3 gallon kegs. Genius!

I'm thinking about adding some sweet orange peel during the boil

Ill probably add the cherry juice during a second fermentation once the apple juice has fully fermented.

I will obviously add vanilla (i have like 40 beans in the mail)

At keg time, I will add brandy and probably mess around with almond extract to bring out that cherry flavor.

Any thoughts on this one before I give it a go?

Well I rehydrated (as carefully an precisely as possible) a new pack of S-05 after a week of non-activity (and no gravity change). Pitched it last night.

Sitting on the edge of my seat hoping that my yeast eat the delicious food I set out for them.

Getting ready for my next batch, based on my 3 gallon "mess up" apfelbier I made last year. Basically I used the same grain bill for a 5 gallon batch, but only used 2 gallons of AJ. This go I'm useing .5 oz saaz hops and skipping the torrified wheat in favor of 1lb wheat DME, then adding 1 tbsp pumpkin pie spice at flameout. I'll let you guys know how it goes~!


-Kingboomer

LogicBomb said:

Well I rehydrated (as carefully an precisely as possible) a new pack of S-05 after a week of non-activity (and no gravity change). Pitched it last night.

Sitting on the edge of my seat hoping that my yeast eat the delicious food I set out for them.

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Well, 36 hours later and at least I see "something", looks pretty tepid if you ask me though:




Better than dead yeast rafts, still very little activity, no?

Yeast: S-05
Ambient room temp: 65F

It looks like its fermenting now. Not fermenting like crazy but I didn't get a vigorous ferment with that yeast the 2 Times I used it. I would let it go a couple of days and test the gravity to see if its going. Maybe warm it up a couple of degrees.

LogicBomb said:

So after a week of no krausen, no airlock activity and just one giant yeast raft (which has broken up to many smaller ones now) I'm seeing a gravity reading of like 1.060 or 1.062 (I'm terrible at reading the hydrometer). And it still tastes like juice.

I forgot to take an OG but it looks like most people have OG's around that same mark - guess my yeast didn't take possibly?

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My OG WAS 1.060, prob no fermentation.

Well... it's still bubbly like the photo above (less, but similar) after a few more days. I think it's doing it's thing now.

Really very, very little motion going on in the carboy (no yeast dances, that I love so much) but if I had to put money on it, I'd say I'm going to end up with beer once it's done.

Thanks guys

LogicBomb said:

Well... it's still bubbly like the photo above (less, but similar) after a few more days. I think it's doing it's thing now.

Really very, very little motion going on in the carboy (no yeast dances, that I love so much) but if I had to put money on it, I'd say I'm going to end up with beer once it's done.

Thanks guys

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Ill take your money... Since I'm guessing it'll be graff :cross:

Beer-ish

I just got steered towards this thread, and man oh man am I pumped! This weekend I'm gunna brew up a 5 gallon batch, but instead of using apple juice, I'm gunna use some nice all natural apple cider. I'm not sure how the recipe will change, but I'm hoping that it turns out a little more tart. I'm also planning on using .5 oz of Citra. Wish me luck!

Checked on my Graff last night, brewed on saturday (9/28/13) looked to be chugging along nicely then last night when i got home from work no airlock activity and Krausen had fallen..

Did not check gravity but i wouldn't think it would finish in 2 days... Hydrometer broken i am picking one up tonight

Internal temp was at 58 when i got home last night... Let it warm up to 62 when i left for work this morning.... Only changed 1 frozen water bottle so hopefully it stays around that temp and it starts back up

Anyone else run into this issue?

I attempted to step up a half pack of Nottingham... I think i did it correct, made a starter pitched the yeast let it go 2 days on the stir plate then fridge for a day, made another starter, decanted and pitched into new wort and on starter for a day then pitched from starter to graff... Could i have under pitched?

Does this work for an all-grain version?


4# two-row (I plan on doing BIAB with 50-60% eff) (replaces DME)
0.5# Crystal 60L
1 oz Torrified Wheat

Mash all grains at 156-158 for 60 min for fuller body (single infusion)

60 min boil
add 0.5 oz ~5% AA hops at 30 min
Cool wort, end with 1 gal wort

Add 4 gallons of AJ

Pitch US-05

rest is the same as original recipe.

Should I add/change any of the grains? Not sure what specialty grain the amber DME replaces.

@mrphillips Save you the time going through all these threads. Go onto Northern Brewers website under web tv they did an episode of this graff thread. They used Apple Cider in their version and went over the tasting notes. Chip W. also has a new video blog called Chop and Brew.

@snooby I did about the same but did a pound of munich malt, you can do an addition of cloves, all spice soaked in 2oz vodka for a week then put in secondary or into bottle/keg. I bottle mine and used dark brown sugar for priming and it gives it a nice element to it.

CliffMongoloid said:

Checked on my Graff last night, brewed on saturday (9/28/13) looked to be chugging along nicely then last night when i got home from work no airlock activity and Krausen had fallen..

Did not check gravity but i wouldn't think it would finish in 2 days... Hydrometer broken i am picking one up tonight

Internal temp was at 58 when i got home last night... Let it warm up to 62 when i left for work this morning.... Only changed 1 frozen water bottle so hopefully it stays around that temp and it starts back up

Anyone else run into this issue?

I attempted to step up a half pack of Nottingham... I think i did it correct, made a starter pitched the yeast let it go 2 days on the stir plate then fridge for a day, made another starter, decanted and pitched into new wort and on starter for a day then pitched from starter to graff... Could i have under pitched?

Click to expand...

Gravity is at 1.032... Starting a starter of us-05 and will pitch tomorrow

Hmmm... is this a stuck fermentation? I brewed a Graff on Sept 15 and today (Oct 2) I checked and for the 2nd time in 3 days the hydrometer is saying 1.02 and the airlock has stopped completely. Isn't this too high for it to be finished? Any reason it might be stuck?

I used fresh pressed cider and Nottingham yeast. The OG was 1.065 and it's been at around 68 degrees.

seems too high to bottle but I'm not sure what else to do at this point.

Chris

ca2devri said:

Hmmm... is this a stuck fermentation? I brewed a Graff on Sept 15 and today (Oct 2) I checked and for the 2nd time in 3 days the hydrometer is saying 1.02 and the airlock has stopped completely. Isn't this too high for it to be finished? Any reason it might be stuck?

I used fresh pressed cider and Nottingham yeast. The OG was 1.065 and it's been at around 68 degrees.

seems too high to bottle but I'm not sure what else to do at this point.

Chris

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Sounds like the yeast may have petered out. You might try raising the temps a few degrees and rousing the yeast a bit, and then checking again in a few more days.

1.02 is pretty high for this recipe (my FG was 1.007), but that's still 5.9%abv so it's not horrible attenuation. It will probably just be a little sweeter than intended.

Just to be clear, that's 1.020, and not 1.002, right?

Yep, 1.02. I check again today. It doesn't taste very sweet. The apples were almost all mcintosh which seems to make a very sour tasting cider.

I won't have time to bottle for at least another week. I might bring it up from the basement to see if that does anything to it. If I was sure it wasn't going to create bottle bombs I'd just bottle it now.

Chris

ca2devri said:

The apples were almost all mcintosh which seems to make a very sour tasting cider.

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I don't have any experience with mcintosh, but for what it's worth, all of my ciders have seemed a bit sour until they had time to age.

The higher FG will probably only mean that your cider will be a little sweeter (because the yeast didn't eat up all that tasty sugar). If it's stable, and your ABV is reasonable, I wouldn't worry about it. It's all about the taste! Convention be d@mned!

Well I brought it upstairs just now and almost immediately I saw some action (bubbling and airlock). I think from the swishing around because it was too soon for it to warm up. But I do think it was a bit colder down there than I had thought (maybe around 60 F?) So I guess I'll leave it a while longer and see what it does.

Chris

Just tried my first batch of Graff. I took the original recipe posted and tweeked it a little bit. Will it work? After tasting the wart...there's a very good chance of it!

5 Gallon Batch:

3 Gallons Apple Cider
2 Gallons Water
2 lbs. Extra Pale Malt Extract
1 lb. Brown Sugar
1/2 lb. Crystal 80
1/2 oz. Citra Hops
Yeast: S-04

I just finished my second all grain graff... I did the same recipe as I did for my pumpkin pie graff (posted above a few weeks ago). But I made a few modifications.

I did half an ounce crystal hops @ 60
I didn't mash with pumpkin, nilla wafers or graham crackers
I added a full LB (vs 1/2) of light brown sugar @ 15

So I did:

3 lb MO 2-row
2 lb crystal 60
1 oz tortified wheat
1 lb light brown sugar
.5 oz crystal hops

I did use Ringwood (1187) with a starter

I added 1 gallon 3qts water to my mash for 60min @ 158f
Mashed out 1 gallon @ 18 brix (1.072)

Batch sparged with 1 gallon @ 170
Second runnings 1 gallon @ 9 brix (1.035)

Combined boil 2 gallons @ 11 brix (1.043)

Final boil gravity was off the charts for the refractometer.

Final gravity (combined with apple juice) 17 brix (1.068)

I'm expecting this to be 7-7.5% ABV

Btw- my efficency SUCKED (~47%). I gotta adjust my grain mill.

I brewed outside on my front porch. I live in a pretty busy neighborhood. I had a few people stop to talk. One guy was skeptical and cringed when I told him what I was making. I offered him some of my pumpkin pie graff that I had on tap. He took me up on it. He loved it and shared with the lady he was with. She loved it too. Ended up being the new neighbor down the street. Good way to meet the neighbors.

I've been brewing for over 17 years, and I never brewed up a Cider. Glad I found this thread.

I read through the first several pages, and decided to head to the LHBS and brew one up.

I went with:
3lbs light DME
.75lbs Crystal 40
.5 oz Citra boil
.5 oz Citra after boil
1/2 Cinammon stick (Added right after boil, then put into fermenter)
Nottingham Yeast
.75 gallons of wort after boil
4.5 gallons Apple Juice

With that amount of Crystal, I couldn't see a reason for more grains focused on head retention.

I started with 1.25 gallons of water. I steeped the Crystal for 30 mins at 155 degrees. I then added the .5 oz of Citra as I heated up to boil - basically FWH addition. I added the 3lbs of DME and boiled for 30 mins, which took it down to .75 gallons. After the boil I added the half cinammon stick and another .5oz of Citra hops.

I cooled the pot down in the sink of cold water, then mixed it in with the Apple Juice. I used 4.5 Gallons of Apple Juice and the batch was 5.25 gallons, and an OG of 1.068. I dumped the whole pot into the fermenter and didn't bother trying to filter anything.

It started to bubble slowly after about 6 hours.

I'm starting the fermentation at 65 degrees, and will raise it one degree every 12 hours until I hit 69 degrees. I'll hold it there until the kruesen starts to drop, then I'll pull it out and let it finish at room temp. The half cinammon stick is sitting in the fermenter, hopefully it'll give a little bit of flavor without being overpowering.

I plan on dumping the original recipe on yeast cake from a honey kolsch i'm fermenting now. Any worries?

I made this about 3 months ago. Fermented for a month or so and bottled. Its really tart. How long in the bottle till this is enjoyable? Or is the tart flavor how Cider should be? Ive made Eds Apfelwein and I have to cut it with Sprite. All I can use as a baseline is commercial cider like Angry Orchard.

bssrf4 said:

I plan on dumping the original recipe on yeast cake from a honey kolsch i'm fermenting now. Any worries?

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No worries at all.

funkyskier said:

I made this about 3 months ago. Fermented for a month or so and bottled. Its really tart. How long in the bottle till this is enjoyable? Or is the tart flavor how Cider should be? Ive made Eds Apfelwein and I have to cut it with Sprite. All I can use as a baseline is commercial cider like Angry Orchard.

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Mine is also tart

CliffMongoloid said:

Mine is also tart

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I've made this twice now. The first time I followed the recipe pretty closely and it was tart. Maybe more so than some commercial dry ciders that I've had. I let that batch sit down in the basement for a few months and it mellowed a bit but was still tart. I just recently made a second batch with a few changes. First I used a full pound of Crystal 80 instead of the 1/2 pound of Crystal 60 that was called for. Also once fermentation was complete and the graf had cleared I back sweetened it and dosed it with Potassium Sorbate. Now when I drink this new batch I get the tartness and some apple flavor followed by the maltiness of the grain. Very drinkable.

Tasty but next time I won't over toast the fennel seeds

Redd77 said:

I've made this twice now. The first time I followed the recipe pretty closely and it was tart. Maybe more so than some commercial dry ciders that I've had. I let that batch sit down in the basement for a few months and it mellowed a bit but was still tart. I just recently made a second batch with a few changes. First I used a full pound of Crystal 80 instead of the 1/2 pound of Crystal 60 that was called for. Also once fermentation was complete and the graf had cleared I back sweetened it and dosed it with Potassium Sorbate. Now when I drink this new batch I get the tartness and some apple flavor followed by the maltiness of the grain. Very drinkable.

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I've never made the original recipe. I made mine all grain with 3lb MO and 2lb crystal 80. It wasn't tart at all. It was very drinkable right out of the fermenter.

I'm wondering. Did you use juice that has added vitamin C, or asorbic acid. I read that can add tartness. The juice I use is from costco and it's 100% apple juice (not from concentrate) with out anything added.

My Graff is still chugging along after being in the primary for 12 days. My OG was 1. 052, and with this lengthy fermentation, I'm expecting it to finish around 1.005. I used 3 gallons apple cider, 2 gallons of water with 2 lbs. of DME, and a pound of brown sugar, so I was surprised that my OG wasn't in the 1.060's range...but I'm excited all the same!

insanim8er said:

I've never made the original recipe. I made mine all grain with 3lb MO and 2lb crystal 80. It wasn't tart at all. It was very drinkable right out of the fermenter.

I'm wondering. Did you use juice that has added vitamin C, or asorbic acid. I read that can add tartness. The juice I use is from costco and it's 100% apple juice (not from concentrate) with out anything added.

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Just checked the label of the apple juice and it does have Vitamin c added.... Darn