I just found using a statement with the word "fact" followed by "I am not sure" peculiar. Nothing a against the poster, just the combination of words caught my eye...plus I had been enjoying a few pints at the time....
Heady Topper
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mmonacel
Well-Known Member
As for a source, my buddy chatted up his wife at the pub. She confirmed the use of extract. I write about it briefly in this thread above. There may be other sources as well. It also makes financial sense for iipa large brewers as well as making sure to reduce vegetative matter given the high ibus needed.
BeerCrafter2011
Well-Known Member
I heard a podcast, on the brewing network I believe, regarding the Alchemist collaboration with Stone. In that podcast, Greg Koch states that the Alchemist likes to use hop extract. Not proof, but one can take the risk and assume there is hop extract in HT.
I just found using a statement with the word "fact" followed by "I am not sure" peculiar. Nothing a against the poster, just the combination of words caught my eye...plus I had been enjoying a few pints at the time....
Note the period between statements.
okay, moving on.
Note the period between statements.
I also noted that you started the sentence with an lower case letter....
I kid kid. 
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Lively discussion on this clone. I am putting one together but won't brew for another few weeks in order to get the proper grains which they don't sell at the closest LHBS to me. On Pearl grains, are there any substitutions that would give similar results? It'd probably have to be a combination of 2-row and Marris, or Vienna maybe.
Rather than 2 row I'd suggest considering using Thomas Fawcett Optic as a substitute. Midwest Supplies describes it as
"A floor-malted barley malt from a single barley variety (Optic), and produced by a centuries-old, family-owned maltster. Optic is another malt considered to be one of the last of the traditional English Pale malt varieties still produced in the UK. Adds a degree of biscuit flavor. Brighter and lighter in flavor than Pearl, a great malt for the production of Real Ales."
Compared to Pearl's description:
"A floor-malted barley malt from a single barley variety (Pearl), and produced by a centuries-old, family-owned maltster. Fawcett's primary barley variety used by several of England's largest and finest breweries. As a base malt, Pearl lends a dry breadiness. Recommended for traditional Pale Ales."
I also noted that you started the sentence with an lower case letter....
I've noted your misuse to 'an'.
All good, my man.
I've noted your misuse to 'an'.
Hahahahahahaha....That just made my day
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the sub, had never heard of Optic. Luckily I found Pearl at a brew shop just out of town. I'll head out and get it this weekend.othellomcbane
Well-Known Member
There's definitely something to this guy's private yeast strain. Just tried my first sample from the IPA I brewed Sunday with Conan yeast, down to 1.020 from 1.074. I'm hoping it drops a few more points (I'm guessing somewhere around 1.016 to 1.017; I mashed at 152), but it tastes GREAT right now. And it honestly tastes a lot more like Heady than I would have thought, since I wasn't going for a clone at all. I have no idea what hops he uses and didn't create this recipe around that, just my own whims. But it's got that big fruity juiciness right in the middle, like Heady does — there's some specific flavor that I can taste in both beers. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I'm optimistic at this point.
aquajon1
Active Member
what a great beer. stoped by the brewery this past week tasted some beer and man is it good. bought a few 4 packs
and bubble wraped some and checked them in my luggage, they stayed cold for the flight back to fl.
the sign on the wall says they use 6 different hops in the IIPA. would love to make this brew one day.
and bubble wraped some and checked them in my luggage, they stayed cold for the flight back to fl.
the sign on the wall says they use 6 different hops in the IIPA. would love to make this brew one day.
othellomcbane
Well-Known Member
I have returned with the results from my Heady Topper yeast culturing experiment. As I said before, Conan seems to be a real trooper, with great attenuation (around 80% apparent attenuation for me, on the two batches I've used it for), predictably slow flocculation, and most importantly, a really awesome peach-apricot aroma that I believe really backs up the dry-hops in an IPA. I was just brewing an IPA recipe of my own creation, but if anyone is attempting to clone Heady Topper, i think this yeast is crucial.
Here's my thorough write-up of my entire yeast culturing adventure, and here's a write-up / tasting notes for the IPA I brewed with Conan.
If anyone else tries this, report back and let us know your results!
Here's my thorough write-up of my entire yeast culturing adventure, and here's a write-up / tasting notes for the IPA I brewed with Conan.
If anyone else tries this, report back and let us know your results!
Day 7 of primary, 80-82% attenuation. First 6 days at 62-64 ambient temp, today at 69 ambient (thinking it could bring out some more peach esters). Hydro samples def have some peach in it. It is a 90ibu Citra ipa, so i think the tropical fruits of the hops are masking some of the flavor. A real trooper like you said and based on what you've done and what im doing, i have no doubts this can reach the 86% attenuation Alchemist supposedly gets (1.070 to 1.010 for HT) especially since when i went to the brewery those fermenters were bubbling (read: spewing out of the blowoff hoses) something furious.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I just received a 4-pack of HT and was very impressed with the first can. I am saving the last three for a few days until I can get my equipment cleaned up and ready to harvest the yeast. I plan to brew a split batch of my HT clone with my harvest and with a regular ale yeast so I can see the differences. I have reached this type of flavor in an IIPA without Conan, so I'm interested in seeing how much of the HT is hop mix and how much is yeast. I find it's really hard to compare unless you do the wort with and without it so I'm going to give it a try.
Commonwealth
Well-Known Member
Veganbrewer, keep us posted on your findings. Here is link you may find helpful. http://www.bear-flavored.com/2012/09/culturing-conan-aka-alchemists-heady.html
Let me know if you require more heady cans for your reasearch , I am local to the brewery and would be willing to aid such a noble and scientific cause. It is a pricey 4 pack, but i bet we could find something to trade.
Let me know if you require more heady cans for your reasearch , I am local to the brewery and would be willing to aid such a noble and scientific cause. It is a pricey 4 pack, but i bet we could find something to trade.
skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
I will trade you for some Heady. Planned to harvest from my last 4 pack, but had a few too many and decided not to worry about it at the time. What are you looking for?
othellomcbane
Well-Known Member
Awesome, glad you're seeing results consistent with mine. I'm guessing that the Alchemist mashes fairly low to get that high attenuation, or maybe adds a bit of sugar. (I believe RR does so with Pliney the Elder). But it looks like we can say that 80-82% attenuation with Conan is a pretty safe bet.
Just got a couple pounds of fresh hops in the mail, so it's going to be an IPA-heavy brewing season for me. (Shucks). I'll probably use my reserve of Conan yeast for at least one or two more batches.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I'm glad to have finally found a purpose in life, to culture Conan yeast from cans of HT. If I am successful I will harvest the crap out of it and provide to other local brewers.
Commonwealth
Well-Known Member
Skeezerpleaser i am willing to help out anyone kind enough to be doing mad scientist research and taking the time to share the results. Huge props to othellomcbane & theveganbrewer, thanks for your insights, hard work and willingness to keep us informed. If i opened up trading Heady Topper full blown i think it would become a part time job ;-) I barely brew enough as it is with 4 young kids. It took me a year to build my stand and you would laugh if you saw it because i basically automated a couple camping stoves. One day when i grow up as a parent I'll post my camp chef-brutus rig build and give back a bit to this wonderful community i have found online.
My local beer guy let me try some of this on Friday. Definitely lives up to the hype! I was looking into it on Google and found a Boston.com article that says he's doubling production this fall to start supplying a few stores in Boston. Can't wait.
ChrisNH
Well-Known Member
This has been great discussion. I am planning on brewing El Jefe, their seasonal brew, using the recipe in Mitch Steele's IPA Book. I will have to aquire some more heady toppers to culture that yeast I think. I live in NH but its still a long ride. I had saved a (empty) can to give to my wife next time she road tripped to VT so she could say "give me this please" but now, sadly, she is changing plans and not going to VT .
.
I'm going to brew something based off of this concept this weekend.
I am actually trying to harvest Conan for a future version, as well, thanks to this stupid, stupid, stupid thread.
My LHBS has Pearl. Since this brew will not be a true clone, I figure I can play around with things a bit. I've noted some suggestions of avoiding Crystal... I'm sort of thinking about trying this as a single malt beer, to see what's missing, and what might be worth adding. Thanks for providing some hop suggestions and schedules... I know this thread has been going a while... if anyone has any updates, suggestions etc, let's keep it alive. This is a beer worth aiming for, as so many of the "not quites" should be damn good as it is.
I am actually trying to harvest Conan for a future version, as well, thanks to this stupid, stupid, stupid thread.
My LHBS has Pearl. Since this brew will not be a true clone, I figure I can play around with things a bit. I've noted some suggestions of avoiding Crystal... I'm sort of thinking about trying this as a single malt beer, to see what's missing, and what might be worth adding. Thanks for providing some hop suggestions and schedules... I know this thread has been going a while... if anyone has any updates, suggestions etc, let's keep it alive. This is a beer worth aiming for, as so many of the "not quites" should be damn good as it is.
skibb said:
Do we really believe the yeast is that critical? I've never had Heady, but from all accounts it is a massively hop-dominated beer. I would think any neutral, attenuative strain would be just fine.
http://bites.today.com/_news/2012/0...rld-class-beer-straight-from-the-tallboy?lite
I like to mess around with yeast - this one sounds interesting.
I like to mess around with yeast - this one sounds interesting.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Yes, we believe. Just had my 2nd can tonight. This stuff is special.
skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
I would say that the yeast helps a bit, but with the amount of whatever hops they really use, any strain would produce a good beer.
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Maybe. But if you're gonna try and clone something, you might as well clone something.
ChrisNH
Well-Known Member
In Mitch Steele's IPA book he gives the recipe for El Jefe. Different beer.. but I think there are some things to look at there when formulating a recipe for HT.
The El Jefe recipe is
88-89.5% Pearl
8% Caramalt (Crisps crystal 15)
remaining percet 2.5-4 of Carafa special III to get it to 16L
So.. one could infer a good HT recipe would be 92% Pearl and 8% Caramalt might might be a good starting point..
For Hops when I did the percentage hops out into a 6gallon recipe I got
53 g Simcoe 2012 FH [14.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 71.8 IBUs
67 g Simcoe 2012 FH [14.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 5 18.1 IBUs
113 g Simcoe 2012 FH [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
Heavy duty Dry hop.. and given how hazy the beer is.. and thats not going to be yeast haze I think.. I would expect heady may be even more..
Just some thoughts. Look forward to results. I am doing El Jefe to be ready for Christmas.. need to find me some cans of HT to culture..
The El Jefe recipe is
88-89.5% Pearl
8% Caramalt (Crisps crystal 15)
remaining percet 2.5-4 of Carafa special III to get it to 16L
So.. one could infer a good HT recipe would be 92% Pearl and 8% Caramalt might might be a good starting point..
For Hops when I did the percentage hops out into a 6gallon recipe I got
53 g Simcoe 2012 FH [14.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 71.8 IBUs
67 g Simcoe 2012 FH [14.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 5 18.1 IBUs
113 g Simcoe 2012 FH [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
Heavy duty Dry hop.. and given how hazy the beer is.. and thats not going to be yeast haze I think.. I would expect heady may be even more..
Just some thoughts. Look forward to results. I am doing El Jefe to be ready for Christmas.. need to find me some cans of HT to culture..
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
When I clone this, I'm going to buy expensive canning equipment so I can DRINK IT FROM THE CAN!
Seriously though I think Pearl Malt would be a great start for this one. Pearl is awesome in IPAs - it's my go-to base malt. Very Heady Topper-ish if you ask me (and I'm no expert!)
Seriously though I think Pearl Malt would be a great start for this one. Pearl is awesome in IPAs - it's my go-to base malt. Very Heady Topper-ish if you ask me (and I'm no expert!)
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I've gotten my Pearl picked up. Just pulled out beersmith and had
84% pearl
3% C20
7.5% Carapils
5.5% Corn Sugar
Not sure where I formulated that but seems to be close. Is the rumor of 7 hops true? Or is it 6?
I'm off to get the yeast out of the first can now. Hope this one works.
It's definitely not Citra, although I thought the same thing. Citra wasn't introduced until 2007, Heady Topper has been around for quite some time longer. I'm lucky enough to have a co-worker who makes weekly trips up to Vermont. He brings me back a couple 4 packs every so often.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I got success with my first can of yeast. I'm in 100mL and will step up to 200mL tomorrow or the next day. I'm glad it doesn't have Citra, I've been using too much of it and want to get a few citra-free recipes.
The only 'problem' with making a clone is that they use hop extract. There's no info as to brand, type, and how much, but they do use it.
Anyways, moved to secondary today, fermented from 1.062 to 1.011 for 82% attenuation. Even if you don't care to clone it, its a pretty killer yeast. I'll be using it frequently.
Anyways, moved to secondary today, fermented from 1.062 to 1.011 for 82% attenuation. Even if you don't care to clone it, its a pretty killer yeast. I'll be using it frequently.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Could you share your step up list for the yeast from the can to when you pitched? Did you go 100mL to 200mL to 1L?
This was actually my first time doing this. I can't say its the best way, but its just the way i did it.. 12oz, 500ml, 800ml. All were about 1.032 og starters. I had each step on a stir plate for about 36 hours each time and put it in the fridge for about 4 days after each step. No reason as to the timeline, it just happened to work out that way before i could brew.
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