Stalled Fermentation

Hi,

My name is Chris.. new member.. hello! I used to home brew a fair bit a decade again and have gotten sucked back in. Pretty much a newb again.

Anyway, on to the problem. I made up a recipe based on what was on the shelf of a new brew shop that opened in my area. I put that at the bottom here for reference. He was somewhat lacking in choices.. but I would like to see a local shop flourish.

36 hours after I pitched the yeast the fermentation slowed dramatically. It had been quite vigorous with streams of bubbles every few seconds. Now I know it still doing some fermenting but very very slow.

I did a little research and discovered that the Munton "standard" yeast i used isn't big on complex sugars and not meant for all extract brewing. I should have gotten the "Gold" or some other brand entirely. Oh well. My plan is to at a better yeast in when I transfer to a secondary if the SG has not dropped more in the hopes that it will finish off the sugars.

OG was 1.046
1.018 after 48 hr.

The beer tastes OK. I don not think there is any infection. Hoppy with the expected yeasty flavor of 2 day old beer.

The other possibility is the temp got low. Its been cool here in New England. Its been holding steady at 68 in my basement, but its possible it dips lower in the whee hours of the morning. I find it hard to believe it ever got colder then 65.

Unfortunately the shop is only open on weekends right now so I am stuck with the loaner package of yeast (Safyeast? Is that right?) and nothing to make a starter. I am not likely to get to a brew store for a couple of weeks.

I considered maybe taking some of my fermented beer, maybe 2 quarts and boiling it down. That would kill off the old yeast, boil off the alcohol, and concentrate the remaining sugars. Then i could pitch in to that to make a starter. If my theory is correct, it should have some complex sugars in it.. just want I want my new yeast to enjoy..

So my questions:

Is my line of reasoning on why I stalled, umn, reasonable?

Is my plan of attack reasonable?

Should I just leave it alone?

I chose not to stir it to rouse the yeast because it DID ferment a good bit.. it really seems like my yeast just can't eat the big sugars. I would prefer to let the crappy yeast sleep..

Thanks for your help,

Chris

2 cans 3.3lb munton amber LME
1/2 lb crystal malt
2 oz willamette pellet @ 60m
1 oz willamette pellet @ 30m
1/2 oz cascade pellet @ 10m
1/2 oz cascade pellet @ 2m

2x munton standard yeast
1tsp irish moss 15m

If your beers is down to 1.018 after 48 hours there is no reason to believe anything is wrong, your beer is almost done. Don't monkey with it, just leave it alone, let the yeast do their job. Many of us just pitch our yeast and come back a month later an bottle. Giving the yeast plenty of time to do their job, and clean up after themselves.

So don't be in any hurry to do anything, and don't worry your beer is fine, and trying to fix what isn't a probably could result in ruined beer.

+1 on what Revvy said. But here is some more info in case you wanted to know:

Some yeasts will attenuate better then others. So it IS possible that the Munton's yeast you used will not get down as far as some others.

The cooler temps likely will affect the rate of fermentation, but they are still well within the range for the yeast, so the effect would be minimal. Low 60s is actually the range I prefer to keep most of my yeast (excepting certain funky beers that you actually want the off flavors in...)

Fermenting warmer, like 75 or higher, can produce a hard and fast fermentation, which gets over quicker, but can lead to bad flavors. Yeast strain is big factor here though. Certain strains make more off-flavors than others, and lager yeasts like cooler temps yet.

What it looks like to me is that your yeast had a nice, healthy ferment for a few days and are running out of sugars to eat. It gets harder for them to find food as their numbers dwindle, and the sugars are fewer and farther between. This is normal!

At a certain point the yeast will stop eating certain sugars and move on to others. Then, as I am led to believe, they start eating other things, which we called "Cleaning up". They process compounds which lead to off-flavors and they produce a cleaner flavor. (They are actually eating part of their own waste product). This can happen even after bottling. It's part of what we call conditioning.

So, you definitely had fermentation. The temps don't look bad. The yeasts know what they are doing. Let them continue for another week or two. My standard is 3 weeks fermentation minimum. Except maybe some lighter beers like wit. And even then I always find out that the couple of extra weeks of sitting really make them taste much better. (but I am impatient by then!)

Cheers!

Yes it is hard to wait. But wait you must.

Every batch, every brew, is a learning experience. The paradox is that the less you mess around with it, the more you learn. If you change this, monkey with that, and try to tweak the process too many times, the beer gods will punish you and you won't know why. So just leave it alone - bottle in three weeks, drink it in three weeks after that, and you'll know a lot about the standard process that you will never learn if you jumble it up.

One last thing - don't worry if your gravity never gets much lower than it is now. Extract batches are notorious for that, but it's really not a problem.

frazier said:

Every batch, every brew, is a learning experience. The paradox is that the less you mess around with it, the more you learn. If you change this, monkey with that, and try to tweak the process too many times, the beer gods will punish you and you won't know why.

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So true!

Thanks.. I will rack it into glass and let it sit. I do try to be patient but I have never had anything do its primary that fast "in the old days".

I may have over hopped a bit which will help if its a bit sweet. Happy accident?

you'll know a lot about the standard process that you will never learn if you jumble it up

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Truth.

One thing I never did in the "old days" was keep a notebook. I am changing that this time around (I wish I could remember my old red bitter recipe..) so this experience should do more for me then it would have before.

Thanks again.

Chris

ChrisNH said:

Thanks.. I will rack it into glass and let it sit. I do try to be patient but I have never had anything do its primary that fast "in the old days".

I may have over hopped a bit which will help if its a bit sweet. Happy accident?



Truth.

One thing I never did in the "old days" was keep a notebook. I am changing that this time around (I wish I could remember my old red bitter recipe..) so this experience should do more for me then it would have before.

Thanks again.

Chris

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Don't rack it yet! It may not be done, and may drop a few more points. 48 hours is WAY too early to think about transferring. That's part of the whole "patience" thing- leave it alone for at least 5 more days. Totally alone. Walk away from it.

When you're reading to transfer, do so only after you have at least a three day period with no changes in the SG readings. So, if it's still 1.018 in three days, it would be ok to transfer if you're that impatient. However, even after fermentation slows and stops, the yeast are still busy working. After there are no more fermentable sugars, they actually go back and digest some of their own waste products. That's why you want to leave it on the yeast cake for at least three days after it stops fermenting. Not only that, but racking prematurely may stall fermentation, if it's not completely done. So, if it is meant to finish at 1.012 and you move it now, you may permanently stall it.

I wouldn't rack to a carboy at all for this beer, but if you feel you must wait until it's at least a week old!

I Wasn't going to until this weekend. It will have been a week. I could probably wait a little longer... just need it in glass before I go off on vacation in case bottling gets put off..

I didn't think that racking it would stop the fermentation. I had always done it after primary was done. I will have to look into that.

Thanks,

Chris

No reason to put it into glass unless you're planning on being on vacation for a couple of months. A lot has changed in the past ten years. Secondary fermenters aren't used as much these days. If you're bulk aging, dry hopping or adding fruit then a secondary comes in handy, but people leave their beers in a primary, even a plastic primary, for a month or more these days as a matter of common practice. The yeast continues to clean up the beer for several weeks after the primary fermentation is over and, although plastic does allow some oxygen to pass through, oxidation is not something most people are going to worry about if they're keeping the beer in the fermenter for only three or four weeks.

+1 to Shooter.

I would not rack to a secondary. I would let it ride in the primary for about 2 more weeks, personally. No reason to risk infection during transfer (although I don't subscribe to the theory that this is even very likely...)

Just give it some more time and if you can, crash cool it in the fridge for a couple of days just before bottling/kegging. This can help clear it up even more.

This is the latest, though some folks are stuck in the secondary mindset, but many many many on here have sort of pioneered the long primary no secondary idea, and it's becomming the "norm." Now that folks are realizing the yeast is better quality than it was when folks like papazian were talking about brewing.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/

Unless you are dealing with fruit or oak, there is no need to rack to secondary, even dry hopping is often done in primary these days.

Any other questions you might have HAVE already been answered in that thread ad nauseum, so read it through before you ask about plastic or any other question you may have.

I did read through the threads last night. I think most of my process works just fine.. and the need to sanitize everything was true then and still true now.. and understanding that is my biggest advantage as a semi-newb.

At this point I will probably only rack if I miss a bottling night as an alternative to bottling. I have two toddlers which can make finding time to do things like bottle a real challenge.. I have no doubt that I will have "crap, I have no time to bottle" racking.

I actually am also realizing that I don't need 5 gallons of beer anymore... even with the help of my friends. I just don't get the opportunity to drink as often. I am thinking that I should be brewing 3 gallon batches which will let me brew more and bottle less. It will let me put my 5 gallon carboys to good use as primaries.

Thanks again for the help.. another thing I didnt have when brewing in the past was access to experienced brewers who existed outside of the local lore accepted as truth amongst my friends.

Chris

ChrisNH said:

At this point I will probably only rack if I miss a bottling night as an alternative to bottling. I have two toddlers which can make finding time to do things like bottle a real challenge.. I have no doubt that I will have "crap, I have no time to bottle" racking.

Chris

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I still don't get the WHY of this. People have left their beer upwards of 6 months with no problems. So if you can't bottle, just leave it alone til you can. Rather that than risking oxidation or infection.

Chris,

I have toddlers too and one thing that helped me a lot was getting a kegging system. I always hated bottling, and it kept me from brewing as much. Kegging, however, is awesome. I can do it after the kids go to bed no problem - one vessel to clean and sanitize versus 50.

PorterIV said:

Chris,

I have toddlers too and one thing that helped me a lot was getting a kegging system. I always hated bottling, and it kept me from brewing as much. Kegging, however, is awesome. I can do it after the kids go to bed no problem - one vessel to clean and sanitize versus 50.

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Amen to this!!! If you're going to rack anyway, why not rack right into your serving vessel!

Also, my kids are a lot less likely to break my keg than a bunch of bottles sitting on the kitchen floor.

I have a mini-keg system, the one that takes 5L kegs and a 16g CO2 carridge. I had trouble using it in the past. It would either be foamy or flat. I am going to try again, but I am wary of it. I was delighted when I unboxed my stuff and besides having two totes full of guinness pint bottles I had 8 mini-kegs and an intact tap. I just need to get CO2.

I know that the kegs only got used once or twice.. so they should still be good. I need to search here for a thread on that.

If I can get that to work for me I can make two kegs and 10 pint bottles and be done... or a 3 gallon batch 1 keg, and 9 pint bottles.

My fear with a full blown keg system (besides cost) is having to drink my way through that much beer.. even with my friends to help..

Chris

Revvy said:

I still don't get the WHY of this. People have left their beer upwards of 6 months with no problems. So if you can't bottle, just leave it alone til you can. Rather that than risking oxidation or infection.

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Because its in plastic.. I am wary of leaving anything in plastic more then a month. Is that not an issue?

Thanks,

Chris

Not sure what type of mini-keg system you're using, but, along with my regular kegs, I also have a Tap-A-Draft system and still use it all the time. The bottles fit great on the lower shelf of the fridge and I can get most of a five gallon batch into three of the TAD bottles. Something to think about.

I also makes some occasional 2 gallon extract batches in my old Mr. Beer fermenter and those batches fit perfect in one TAD bottle and a single liter bottle for the excess, makes bottling day a snap.

ChrisNH said:

Because its in plastic.. I am wary of leaving anything in plastic more then a month. Is that not an issue?

Thanks,

Chris

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oy veh, not that one.....It doesn't matter. That's another one of those paranoia old wives tales. A couple months in plastic ain't going to matter. I've, and many others have long termed in plastic 6-12 months and it hasn't mattered. Just relax, you'll be fine. The whole "glass vs plastic" debate is so 20th century...

ChrisNH said:

Because its in plastic.. I am wary of leaving anything in plastic more then a month. Is that not an issue?

Thanks,

Chris

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Not really, I leave my beers in the plastic bucket 3-4 weeks normally. If you're going to be going for long term storage, months, then transfer to something less oxygen permeable like glass. I do know this used to considered a huge issue, but more and more evidence seems to suggest that it only becomes a problem when you're storing a beer for a longer period of time.

EDIT: Revvy beat me to it, fingers of lightning apparently!!!

Oh an as many see kegging as some form of magic bullet, or time saver, I can bottle a batch of beer in 45 minutes....and that include sanitization. That's because I've conquered bottling rather than letting it conquer me and wimp out to kegs.

If you pimp your process like I recommend here, you too can find time to bottle amongst childcare needs. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/

Tap-A-Draft

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I saw that product. I would like to get my Minis going if I can. The CO2 keeps it from going flat.. which is fine if the beer is not foamy or flat to begin with. If I can't get it to work I will look at that.

If you pimp your process like I recommend here, you too can find time to bottle amongst childcare needs. Bottling Tips for the Homebrewer

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Nice thread. I love that sanitizer. That and star san would transform the process. When I was brewing before.. all we had (or knew of) was Bleach. I would use my dishwasher to sanitize, but its never "empty".

I like bottles. I don't like the labor. Thanks to a friend who is a huge Sam Adams drinker I have an infinite supply of brown bottles for giving away.

Chris

Revvy said:

Oh an as many see kegging as some form of magic bullet, or time saver, I can bottle a batch of beer in 45 minutes....and that include sanitization. That's because I've conquered bottling rather than letting it conquer me and wimp out to kegs.

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You're a better man than I am Gunga Din!

Revvy said:

Oh an as many see kegging as some form of magic bullet, or time saver, I can bottle a batch of beer in 45 minutes....and that include sanitization. That's because I've conquered bottling rather than letting it conquer me and wimp out to kegs.

Click to expand...

Cleaning the bottles is a bit of a pain, but the actual bottling process is one of my favorite parts. There's something very satisfying and relaxing about it.

PorterIV said:

Chris,

I have toddlers too and one thing that helped me a lot was getting a kegging system. I always hated bottling, and it kept me from brewing as much. Kegging, however, is awesome. I can do it after the kids go to bed no problem - one vessel to clean and sanitize versus 50.

Click to expand...

Just thought I would hijack this thread to say: my 2.5 year old LOVES to help me bottle. She takes the filled bottles, moves them onto the bottle capper, places the cap on and pulls down the lever with my help.

It's great fun but a bit slow.

KeithMoonsLiver said:

Cleaning the bottles is a bit of a pain, but the actual bottling process is one of my favorite parts. There's something very satisfying and relaxing about it.

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There's a lot of words I would use to describe bottling, but relaxing is not one of them

I am looking forward to drafting my little helpers. Having them carry the bottles is a nice idea. It will be interesting to see what kind of flavor toddler snot adds to the beer.