Spruce Tips are Popping...Do I Dare???

wyzazz said:

I've seen some folks use whole branches in the mash, who knows so many "myths" in the brewing world!

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I was going to put a couple whole branches into my mash, but i didnt know if sap would leech out of the wood and clog up my SS braid.

I'm really digging brewing with local organics, any thoughts on what I should use next?!!

I picked just over a pound of tips a few weeks ago and put them in the freezer.
I brewed up a fairly simple beer this weekend and tossed 5oz in at 0min and 5oz at 60min -- loosely based on a recipe from BYO from last year.

The tips I picked were still quite young and maybe only about 1in long at the time. They did not smell like much coming out of the freezer, just kinda grassy or like moist leaves. The hydro sample tasted about the same.

Is it better to pick them when they are significantly more mature?

The recipe also calls for a "dry hop" of 3oz of tips. I may try to pick some more mature tips for that if the beer tastes ok in a few weeks. I am hoping it does not taste like a wet lawn when it's all fermented out.

novafire said:

I picked just over a pound of tips a few weeks ago and put them in the freezer.
I brewed up a fairly simple beer this weekend and tossed 5oz in at 0min and 5oz at 60min -- loosely based on a recipe from BYO from last year.

The tips I picked were still quite young and maybe only about 1in long at the time. They did not smell like much coming out of the freezer, just kinda grassy or like moist leaves. The hydro sample tasted about the same.

Is it better to pick them when they are significantly more mature?

The recipe also calls for a "dry hop" of 3oz of tips. I may try to pick some more mature tips for that if the beer tastes ok in a few weeks. I am hoping it does not taste like a wet lawn when it's all fermented out.

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FWIW - my tips didn't taste real "sprucey" when I ate them but the beer after fermenting out tasted very sprucey and ctirusy. I waited until mine were between 1 & 3" long and got a variety of them. I'm going to chill a bottle this week to see how it tastes and check carbonation.

I would only use the older growth stuff if you want acutal spruce quailities. Like you say, the new growth stuff basically just tastes/smells like grass. I used almost only older growth stuff in my IPA. I tasted a gravity sample the other day after two weeks in the carboy, and the spruce is barley detecable still. Should have used WAY more, and I used a full pint glass of them in the boil. Im going to stuff the keg full of spruce when I rack later this week.

Just cracked my test bottle open, there's a little lack of carbonation but it'll be there in a few days. It smells great, lots of Piney/Woodsey aroma, and tastes just the same. It's an amber colored beer about 14SRM. I used WLP041 Pacific Ale and it gives this beer a light malty backbone, that brings the Spruce Flavor out nicely. I'll definitely make this again!

wyzazz said:

Just cracked my test bottle open, there's a little lack of carbonation but it'll be there in a few days. It smells great, lots of Piney/Woodsey aroma, and tastes just the same. It's an amber colored beer about 14SRM. I used WLP041 Pacific Ale and it gives this beer a light malty backbone, that brings the Spruce Flavor out nicely. I'll definitely make this again!

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Mind sharing the details of your recipe?

I just assumed you wanted an Extract version, if you want AG then replace the 6lbs of DME with 10lbs of 2-Row.

SpruceBrau

Boil Volume: 6.55 gal Boil Time: 60 min

6 lbs DME Pilsen Light (Briess)
2 lbs Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM)
5.00 oz Spruce Tips (Secondary 7.0 days) Misc
5.00 oz Spruce Tips (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
5.00 oz Spruce Tips (Boil 60.0 min) Misc

White Labs #WLP041

Measured Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Color: 14.1 SRM
Actual Alcohol by Volume: 5.87 %

Im about half way threw my Spruce IPA keg. Turned out great. Lots of pine aroma, but still not exactly sure how much came from the actual spruce, since I used Chinook and Simcoe in the boil. I might use a less 'piney' hop next time to see exactly how much the pine really does. I have to assume some of the pine aspect is due to the Spruce. I used 95% old growth blue spruce needles, added 1/2 'pint' cup @60 and the other 1/2 at FO. I also DH w/ Citra, so I have a nice little citrus kick in there too.

RadicalEd said:

One of my LHBC members is huge into the "authentic old-style beer" stuff, and has made many a batch of spruce beer. Their best success was a demonstration brew at a local Renaissance festival. They lined the bottom of a wooden keg with pine boughs to use as a mash tun, which apparently worked fantastically. The beer was simple, mostly 2-row with a little crystal and on the heavy side (maybe 1080 OG?). All the pine came from the boughs in the MLT. It was just right; not overpowering, but still very present.

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Do you happen to remember how much pine they used in the MLT? Just a couple branches, or was it measured out?

Several weeks ago I made up a spruce beer with rye. Recipe is a bit of kitchen-sink to use up some crystal and wheat malt, it is located here.

After a week of carbing, it's got at least another week until it's ready. If I'm getting anything at all it is very slight in the finish, but that also might be the rye or hops. Tips were very aromatic going into and coming out of the wort.

wyzazz, how did you prepare your tips for secondary?

14thstreet said:

Several weeks ago I made up a spruce beer with rye. Recipe is a bit of kitchen-sink to use up some crystal and wheat malt, it is located here.

After a week of carbing, it's got at least another week until it's ready. If I'm getting anything at all it is very slight in the finish, but that also might be the rye or hops. Tips were very aromatic going into and coming out of the wort.

wyzazz, how did you prepare your tips for secondary?

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I took the spruce tips and rinsed them in cold water then bagged them in a Paint Strainer bag. After about a minute of soaking in StarSan I dropped them in to my primary.

If I'm not satisfied with the outcome, I might dump some into the keg. Thanks! Again, very strange that my tips were very aromatic themselves, after the boil too, but not in the beer so far.

14thstreet said:

If I'm not satisfied with the outcome, I might dump some into the keg. Thanks! Again, very strange that my tips were very aromatic themselves, after the boil too, but not in the beer so far.

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The could be getting masked by the Centennial that you used, my beer wasn't bitter at all, just malty and very flavorful/aromatic. But I didn't add any hops, just 15oz of Fresh Blue Spruce Tips.

I made a Brewer's Best Holiday Ale kit this year, I added 1.2 oz of tips I had frozen in a ziplock bag to a 5 gallon batch. I had pleasant results. Not over powering, but there for sure. I added the tips in the last 15 minutes with the orange peel, cardamom, and ginger seasonings.

Another 3 weeks and the fresh spruce should be primo, thanks for the research guys. The spruce is loose. I'm making a honey spruce porter if I can wait that long to make another beer.

I've got one bottle that I saved from my meager 5 gallon batch, it's been stashed behind a few kegs in the keezer. Me and a couple of buddies plan on raping my trees this year to make 3 batches of this at once, 1-5gal batch for each of them and 1-12gal batch for myself. We're all looking forward to drinking this beer again.

Brewing another batch of Spruce PA on Saturday. Using only old growth again. I entered my Spruce IPA batch in a few comps last summer and most comments said "way to much spruce!". I beg to differ, im going even bigger this time, and using only spruce, no hops. 1 'pint' of needles at 60, then 2 'pints' at FO. Should be fun, and sure saves $$(if it turns out)

wyzazz, how did your batch age with respect to the spruce character? I'm thinking I might make a small batch this year for Christmas. I think you were right last year in saying my Centennial hops covered it up. Without any hops, I wonder how it fared.

14thstreet said:

wyzazz, how did your batch age with respect to the spruce character? I'm thinking I might make a small batch this year for Christmas. I think you were right last year in saying my Centennial hops covered it up. Without any hops, I wonder how it fared.

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The last one I had was around 4moz ago and it was fantastic! I only have one bottle left and have it buried in the back of the keezer so I don't drink it. I am going to drink it side by side with the new batch from this year for a comparison. Won't be long now, spruce tips should be poking their little heads out soon!

Be careful it is powerful and easy to over-spruce.

incutrav said:

Brewing another batch of Spruce PA on Saturday. Using only old growth again. I entered my Spruce IPA batch in a few comps last summer and most comments said "way to much spruce!". I beg to differ, im going even bigger this time, and using only spruce, no hops. 1 'pint' of needles at 60, then 2 'pints' at FO. Should be fun, and sure saves $$(if it turns out)

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Brewing went well. We had a bag of Simcoe hops, and the needles side by side, and if you smelled them blind, you were really hard pressed to tell the difference. Old growth needles are the way to go. Only crapshoot is figuring out how much to use. I threw a bunch in at FO so we shall see in a few weeks.

Just brewed 20 gallons of last year's recipe on Sunday as well as another 5 gallons with Maple Sap instead of water. We also sampled the last bottle of this I had in the keezer, it held up very well for being over a year old and still tasted as good as I remembered it!

Two questions:
1. When is it too late for the spruce/pine tips?
2. Has anyone put them in vodka to pull out the essence and then add it post ferment?

extra_medium said:

Two questions:
1. When is it too late for the spruce/pine tips?

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Depends on the tree and when they pop out, I pick mine at 1-3". They are still very soft and taste very citrusy/astringent, with a sprucey aftertaste when you eat one. Once they start to get hard then I don't bother.

Picked these the other day. Vacuum sealed and froze them for a brew to be made in another month or so. Thinking of using 1oz per gallon at both 30 and 10 minutes. Might "dry spruce" with some too.

JLem said:

Picked these the other day. Vacuum sealed and froze them for a brew to be made in another month or so. Thinking of using 1oz per gallon at both 30 and 10 minutes. Might "dry spruce" with some too.

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Those look good! I do 5oz @ 60min, 5oz @ Transfer & 5oz Dry Spruced for 7 days for a 5gal batch.

wyzazz said:

Those look good! I do 5oz @ 60min, 5oz @ Transfer & 5oz Dry Spruced for 7 days for a 5gal batch.

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I was going to use some bittering hops at 60 min. Though I like the idea of bittering with the spruce too. How much bitterness did you get from that? I know you can't put an actual IBU number to it, but how would you describe the bitterness level?

It's not a bitter beer in the sense that you get bitterness from hops, I can say that there is plenty of spruce to balance out the malt in the recipe I used. The bitterness is very soft. Of all the folks that have tried the Spruce Beer I made last year, only one (My Wife) didn't like it. And she doesn't like beer at all, unless it's Lindemann's.

wyzazz said:

It's not a bitter beer in the sense that you get bitterness from hops, I can say that there is plenty of spruce to balance out the malt in the recipe I used. The bitterness is very soft. Of all the folks that have tried the Spruce Beer I made last year, only one (My Wife) didn't like it. And she doesn't like beer at all, unless it's Lindemann's.

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Thanks for the info. I think I may use some hops at 60 minutes to get the bitterness I am looking for.

I brewed a brown ale with black spruce tips a few years ago and it turned out pretty good. As I sit here typing I can see the new spruce tips through the window. Here I go to clip a few pints for the next brew. Now I know what I'm brewing this week!!

B

JLem said:

I was going to use some bittering hops at 60 min. Though I like the idea of bittering with the spruce too. How much bitterness did you get from that? I know you can't put an actual IBU number to it, but how would you describe the bitterness level?

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I am looking to do a spruce beer in a month or so, and picked about a quart of tips earlier this spring and froze them in anticipation. Reading through the thread, it looks like a lot of people are using the spruce as a hop substitute, as the above quote illustrates.

I re-read the section in Gordon Strong's book last night about his spruced version of Poor Richard's Ale (which won a Gold at NHC). He did some research before brewing it, and the advice he followed was to pick the tips fresh (when they feel like a paintbrush), just after they've blown their red/brown hood (the earlier pictures illustrated that hood nicely). The signifigant thing was the instruction to boil them for 60 minutes. That technique specified the long boil in order to pull the sugar out of the tips, kind of treating the spruce more like a fermentable/non fermentable than as a bittering/aroma agent.

To be a little more specific (but going off memory) for a 5 gallon recipe, Gordon's recipe used a quart (by volume) of tips at 60 minutes, and then starting at 60, he flipped Amarillo and Simcoe additions throughout the boil.

He described the finished beer a "citrus-ey". He also mentioned the spruce character was best when the beer was young, but the beer improved overall with age because he had to wait for the molasses to fade.

My plan is to use his technique for the spruce in my Poor Richard's Ale, but skip the molasses. Has anyone handled the fresh spruce in this manner? How were your results?

Thanks for any input,
Joe

I'm surprised to see nobody's kept up the thread this year...
I've done three spruce beer batches so far - all extract brews, always with the new tips in the spring, and always adding the spruce at the beginning of the boil. They've always turned out great! Not very sprucey, but very herbal, regardless of light/dark malt or hop combination.
Well this past year we've gone all grain, and since this is a once a year thing and we wanted more spruce essence, we decided to go big this year. I also have a few hops plants around the house, but the labeling has worn off the two primary producers and I can't remember what variety they are - not to mention they all grew together such that come harvest time you couldn't tell who was who. So I figured this would be a yard beer - whatever I have around the yard. Alas, I don't have any grains (maybe I should stop owing the lawn to remedy that;-) so I opted for something "local" at least - while Alamosa is hardly near by, at least it's in the same state. So I started out with 8lb of Colorado 2-row and added 1/2lb of biscut - my wife wanted nutty and I wanted simple, so we left it at that. In the past I had always used the measure of: a mason jar packed full of new spruce shoots, but this year I filled a 2gal bucket - about 3.25lbs of spruce, and augmented that with the 1.5oz hop melange. I wasn't in the mood to play with hop schedules when I had a mixed bag to start with, so I just went witht he dump and run method. It's a real strange brew in the pot, but it should be a good summer beer. While you can never tell for sure until it's done fermenting, the wort was good enough that my wife and I drank off the hydrometer flask like it was soda pop. In fact, to that end I actually did try to make a batch of spruce soda as well. Definitely more spruce character to this batch - can't wait to see how it turns out.

Well - at least it's a happy beer...

i'd love to attempt a spruce beer. if anyone would sell/trade me some tips, i'd be incredibly grateful!

Tossed mine in to the fermenter today, all spruce additions, no hops. It's been a great beer in the past!

ddrrseio said:

i'd love to attempt a spruce beer. if anyone would sell/trade me some tips, i'd be incredibly grateful!

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try those christmas tree farms along 92 on the way to half moon bay.

on the advice of someone here, i went foraging. can someone confirm that this is spruce and that this is good?

i was careful only to pick the soft growth. is the downie white stuff much better than the soft green?

ddrrseio said:

on the advice of someone here, i went foraging. can someone confirm that this is spruce and that this is good?

i was careful only to pick the soft growth. is the downie white stuff much better than the soft green?

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That is NOT spruce by a long shot. Spruce is a tree, those look like Yew's or some type of shrub. I wouldn't use them in my beer not knowing what they are for certain.

Do NOT proceed without a positive identification. The pictures aren't showing up for me at the moment, but if it is ornamental Yew, it is very toxic and CAN KILL YOU:

SIGNS: "Found dead" is the typical presenting sign. Very rarely will animals show signs up to 2 days later: trembling, slow heart rate, difficulty breathing, gastroenteritis (stomach upset and diarrhea). The plant is exceptionally toxic, with one mouthful able to kill a horse or cow within 5 minutes. Toxicity is compounded by the apparent palatability of yew. Many animals are poisoned accidently when yew trimmings are thrown into the pasture or when yew is planted as an ornamental within browsing reach. Infrequent reports of dogs chewing the leaves resulted in gastroenteritis, seizures, and aggressive behavior.

The toxin is taxine, a mixture of alkaloids, that slow down cardiac conduction. As little as 0.1 to 0.5% of the fresh plant per body weight is lethal. Death is due to cardiac and/or respiratory collapse.

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Not to over react or anything- just be careful!