Juice flavoured Cider

I made a dry cider and killed the yeast, attempting to carbonate mechanically.
My father wants more "APPLE" taste in it. I am trying to make this happen, though I think the problem is that he thinks apple cider should taste like apple juice. I have never found that it does. Its tart and there is a roughly apple like flavour in the background but perhaps vodka and apple juice would be more what he is looking for.

Any ideas would be really appreciated. I want to add apple flavour without packing in the sugar.

Um... you could back sweeten it with apple juice concentrate as much as you want and if you're going to force carbonate it you won't have the down side of it having to be still instead of sparkling.

Umm do you know how to back sweeten with potassium something or ether and what's not's? I could search for directions on here or I think I have a print out some where. It makes the yeast stop fermenting and you can there for add as much sugar or aj as you want.

Or you could cold crash... but then you can't let it warm back up

I read x some people use a lil nature's something or other organic extract for Apple flavor with good results

slaithe said:

Umm do you know how to back sweeten with potassium something or ether and what's not's? I could search for directions on here or I think I have a print out some where. It makes the yeast stop fermenting and you can there for add as much sugar or aj as you want....

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Potassium sorbate....and it does not ever make the yeast stop fermenting, nor kill the yeast. You use it in combo with k-meta to stabilize a dry must, then backsweeten. But if there is any chance that there was a malolactic ferment you should never add sorbate.

You could batch pasteurize since you plan to force carb and then backsweeten with thawed, once frozen, apple juice concentrate.

saramc said:

Potassium sorbate....and it does not ever make the yeast stop fermenting, nor kill the yeast. You use it in combo with k-meta to stabilize a dry must, then backsweeten. But if there is any chance that there was a malolactic ferment you should never add sorbate.

You could batch pasteurize since you plan to force carb and then backsweeten with thawed, once frozen, apple juice concentrate.

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Mmm... I didn't mean to imply it's use was to stop an active fermentation, guess I assumed BACK sweetening implied AFTER fermentation has stopped...

I really must argue a little here though... if it did not stop the yeast from fermenting again, then how could you add more fermetable sugars to sweeten it if the yeast are just going to wake up and eat it?

Umm also yout could try sweetening it with partial sugars like xylatol or splenda (only two I know by name)... yeast don't see it as food but the they still taste sweet to us... but, that won't make it taste more "Apple-ie"...

If you do decide to try the extract method (I don't recommend it personally, because it seems fake to me, but seems quick and easy) you should be really careful not to add to much or it will get a fake jolly rancher type candy flavor... Your Milagw May Varrie, so I would start small (like try a glass\bottle or few) and go slow first.

Only mention this because op said it might be the kind of thing right his pops alley. Just trying to be help full. And some people have accused assume of the big commercial cider companies of doing it. Namely the raspberry ones... not that I think it's or could know if it were true.

But he hasn't come back... so I hope I helped give some one ideas... or something.

slaithe said:

I really must argue a little here though... if it did not stop the yeast from fermenting again, then how could you add more fermetable sugars to sweeten it if the yeast are just going to wake up and eat it?

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By using a method on here called Stove Top Pasteurization.

Slaithe...I guess I misunderstood when you said 'it makes the yeast stop fermenting'. Many people still think stabilizing with KMS+sorbate will stop a ferment in its track and/or kill all yeast which are still viable. Just not how they work. They inhibit reproduction and create an unhospitable environment for yeast viability so any fermentable sugar you add (after it is dry and has been serially racked until clear) is not utilized by any residual yeast population.

Hey, thanks for that explination on exactly why/how it's able to stop the awesome lil yeastie friends from starting back up again... I kind of just accepted as almost magically keeping them dormant. I really should read more about the actual science, it's really ingesting. Think you could link to an expanded explanation? Not really what to search for to get that part explained in depth....

@upstate : dude why would I add a couple K-something or other chemicals to cider/cyser must to prevent fermentation from starting up again if I'm going to kill all the yeast with heat anyway? Would it not be better to just kill the yeast with out adding unneeded chemicals?

slaithe...I recommend that you take some time to review www.jackkeller.net, as the Winemaking Page is well broken down into sections and it is easy reading, plus he has an added blog. A good starting point. Just my opinion.

Also, even when I pasteurize my product it still has k-meta on board because it also acts as an antioxidant/antibacterial additive. Sulfite is a natural by-product of fermentation anyway, but not in the amount that they have found it necessary for stabilizing, so we just boost it along a bit. You can always add less than the recommended, but really if you have the ability to confirm pH you would know precisely how much SO2 is necessary. Keller site gives good overview of things.

slaithe said:

@upstate : dude why would I add a couple K-something or other chemicals to cider/cyser must to prevent fermentation from starting up again if I'm going to kill all the yeast with heat anyway? Would it not be better to just kill the yeast with out adding unneeded chemicals?

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Yes.

Well, I know about adding amounts based on PH. Still I disagree with adding camden if heat pasteurizing...

But to each their own. I assume you like to use wine yeast? And age a long time?

Id like to hear more about your processes and experiences. I just activated some sweets mead yeast and am planning on trying to make some cider and cyser. Don't want to detract from the thread to much... feel I have rather derailed it already.

Maybe we could pm?

Was going to try a couple ale yeasts too and try replicating the sticky but with difrent fermentation temps.