How do you do a full boil?

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bombcar

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I started two weeks ago with a five gallon pot, got excited, and tried to boil four gallons to start, having read that the more you are able to boil the better the beer will be.

Result: the boiling water hopped out when the hops hopped in. Lost some; had to clean a stove. Everything else seems to have gone fine, bottling next week.

Fast forward to today: 36 QT pot, partial mash. I started with 7 gallons of water to allow for some to boil off, however, I ended up with a similar issue (boil-over, though I did end up with almost exactly 5 gallons). Luckily this one was outside on a Bayou burner, so there's no cleanup. But I don't like losing or loosing wort.

What is the best way to do this? Start with 5 gallons, and add water during the boil if the amount seems low? Twenty gallon pots?
 
Generally you'd want about 30% extra space. That way you will have enough room for expansion due to heating and then enough room for the hotbreak and foaming associated with boiling. It's either that or you could watch your boil a little more closely and turn the flame up as your liquid reduces.
 
Some also opt to use fermcap-s to help control the foam and reduce the risk of foam-over/boil-over.

Personally, I just make sure I have 2-3 gallons of headspace in my keggle before the boil starters. :D
 
I boil 7gals in a 36qt pot. Its a little scary at first but just go easy on the gas until its boiled off a bit more space. And get a spray bottle filled with water to fight the foam. The first 15minutes of boil require very close attention.
 
When do you add, say, DME during your boil? After the first 15 minutes? Every single boil-over I have had has been right after adding an ingredient.
 
Oh, now I notice people mentioning that you have to change the hops if you do a full boil; I didn't do that. We shall see what I get.
 
When do you add, say, DME during your boil? After the first 15 minutes? Every single boil-over I have had has been right after adding an ingredient.

I usually add about a couple of pounds of DME into warm water, as I'm heating up for the boil, so as there's no steam making the DME clump on the bag then bring to a boil, add bittering hops etc. Etc. Add the majority of extract at around the last 10 minutes, or at flame out with Liquid HME Kit cans. You're right in that the boil definitely starts to get pretty lively directly after making a hop or DME addition.

Oh, now I notice people mentioning that you have to change the hops if you do a full boil; I didn't do that. We shall see what I get.

Yes, you get better hop utilisation in full volume boils. I think that most recipe calculators figure your AA% yield based on a full volume boil so you're probably going to be alright with your batch. What was your hop schedule and recipe?
 
I found that turning the flame down to low while adding hops or dme helps, but won't necessarily eliminate the boil over
 
I used this as close as I could, but modified based on what was on hand:

http://beerrecipes.org/showrecipe.php?recipeid=102

so I had:

5 pounds, golden light DME
2 ounces, roast barley
8 ounces, crushed crystal malt
1 ounces, Fuggles (loose)
2 ounce, Goldings (loose)
1/4 ounce, Goldings (pellets)
1/2 ounce, Goldings (pellets)
WLP002

It was pretty close to that, but the hops were done 2 oz at 10 minutes after start of boil (after DME), and then 1 oz about 30 minutes before end, and then the rest at the end.

I have more details in my log, but it's not with me.
 
Get a plastic spray bottle something like you would use to spray clothes when ironing. As soon as your wort begins to boil spray water on it. That usually works for me,and of course I turn down the flame at the same time. Same thing when adding your hops. MAN THE SPRAY BOTTLE. I haven't had a boil over in a year. I'm doing smaller boils say 2.75 gallons in a 4 gallon pot. That's only 1.25 gallons of space to play with. You only have 2 gallons of play space if my math is good, but I think you can manage it fi you watch carefully.
 
You know the points when the boil over is probably going to happen so watch it close and adjust the flame as needed.

Oh, and more extra space in your pot helps also.
 
Get a plastic spray bottle something like you would use to spray clothes when ironing. As soon as your wort begins to boil spray water on it.

This is what I do. I do AG and sometimes the hop break is insane so a spray bottle of cold water can be the difference between all going well and a boil over. If you're doing extract it also helps to shutoff the flame first before adding extract.


Rev.
 
This is what I do. I do AG and sometimes the hop break is insane so a spray bottle of cold water can be the difference between all going well and a boil over. If you're doing extract it also helps to shutoff the flame first before adding extract.


Rev.

When I have enough in the keggle that boil-over is a possibility, I have the fermcap-s on standby. I can add that quickly, which will get that foam back under control for the batch. I then don't need to worry about any more foam/boil-overs (that batch). :fro:
 
I always keep a spray bottle nearby, but the only time I've had boil overs is when making wort in a small saucepan for yeast starters. I'll boil and 3 to 3.5 gallons in a 4 gallon pot for extract and 7 gallons in an 8 gallon pot for all grain; never once had a problem. I think it's pretty important to understand how hot your burner is running (tougher on an outdoor propane burner) and knowing when to turn it up or down. You'll get it with experience.

Or those fermcap things. lol
 
And label your spray bottle WATER. Ya don't want to be accidentally spraying starsan or bleach in there.

Star San would be safe, bleach not so.

I wouldn't keep a spray bottle of beach, period. But now that you've mentioned it, I need to mark the spray bottle I've got drilling coolant in. Don't want to mix that one up with the Star San bottle, either empty or full.
 
Fermcap is a solution, not a 'things' Bubba... :fro:

Better/easier brewing through science and chemistry. :D :drunk:

Right, right, I keep thinking they're something like whirlfloc tablets in my mind. I don't see myself seeking out some Fermcap until I start getting boil overs. I hope careful attention when the brew kettle is at full capacity helps make it a long time until I have to spend $6 on a vial of that. :ban:
 
Right, right, I keep thinking they're something like whirlfloc tablets in my mind. I don't see myself seeking out some Fermcap until I start getting boil overs. I hope careful attention when the brew kettle is at full capacity helps make it a long time until I have to spend $6 on a vial of that. :ban:

That 2oz bottle will go a long way though. Considering how you use the dropper in the cap, and 1-3 drops per gallon (depending on where/when you use it) it tends to last a good long time. Unless you're brewing 10 gallon batches, every two weeks (or more). :eek:
 
Related question: If I'm doing extract kits and following the recipe except I'm doing foil boil, how will my batch differ from what it's supposed to taste like? Should I be modifying the recipe if I do full boil of a partial boil extract kit?
 
Right, right, I keep thinking they're something like whirlfloc tablets in my mind. I don't see myself seeking out some Fermcap until I start getting boil overs. I hope careful attention when the brew kettle is at full capacity helps make it a long time until I have to spend $6 on a vial of that. :ban:

Once you start using it, you won't want to be without it again.

I bought a half liter (~17 oz) of it for $20. Those little 1oz dropper bottles are profit centers for the brew shops that repackage it.

chfcs_1.jpg
 
That 2oz bottle will go a long way though. Considering how you use the dropper in the cap, and 1-3 drops per gallon (depending on where/when you use it) it tends to last a good long time. Unless you're brewing 10 gallon batches, every two weeks (or more). :eek:

My renewed vigor for brewing has be brewing 5 gallon batches once a week... maybe I should invest in some!
 
Related question: If I'm doing extract kits and following the recipe except I'm doing foil boil, how will my batch differ from what it's supposed to taste like? Should I be modifying the recipe if I do full boil of a partial boil extract kit?

As long as you add the majority of the malt extract (or all of it) near the end of the boil, it can only get better.

Once you start using it, you won't want to be without it again.

I bought a half liter (~17 oz) of it for $20. Those little 1oz dropper bottles are profit centers for the brew shops that repackage it.

chfcs_1.jpg

Dang, that's crazy. Would one of the 1oz bottles be good to keep around so you can use the dropper, or is there an easy way to extract just a few drops from the big half litre bottle?
 
Related question: If I'm doing extract kits and following the recipe except I'm doing foil boil, how will my batch differ from what it's supposed to taste like? Should I be modifying the recipe if I do full boil of a partial boil extract kit?

No. There is some belief that doing a full boil may impact hops utilization, and some brewing software would calculate it that way but except for very very low IBU (under 20 IBUs) that hasn't been my experience at all. For a cream ale or light lager where you want to make sure you don't have even a 5 IBU difference, you may want to reduce the bittering hops 20%, but for the rest there isn't any need.
 
No. There is some belief that doing a full boil may impact hops utilization, and some brewing software would calculate it that way but except for very very low IBU (under 20 IBUs) that hasn't been my experience at all. For a cream ale or light lager where you want to make sure you don't have even a 5 IBU difference, you may want to reduce the bittering hops 20%, but for the rest there isn't any need.
Thanks for letting me know. I never brew anything that low in IBUs.

As long as you add the majority of the malt extract (or all of it) near the end of the boil, it can only get better.
I've been following the recipe and putting it at the start of the boil. I've seen a few mentions of that. Why would you do that?
 
Thanks for letting me know. I never brew anything that low in IBUs.

I've been following the recipe and putting it at the start of the boil. I've seen a few mentions of that. Why would you do that?

Adding the bulk of the extract at the end of the boil means a less "cooked extract" taste in the beer, as well as keeps a lighter color for the final beer. In my experience, it makes a better beer especially when doing a partial boil of less than 6 gallons or so in the boil.
 
^ What she said. It's what Palmer advised when I read How to Brew, and it still seems to be the most popular consensus. Since the extract was already boiled before being heavily concentrated, you don't technically need to boil it at all. The last 10 minutes of the boil should be more than enough to make sure the extract is sterilized enough for fermentation, just to be safe. You could just boil water for the first 50 minutes in order to get your hop utilization in, though I typically put 1/3 to 1/2 of the extract in to start.
 
Laying a spoon across your kettle will reduce boil overs too. The spoon will "pop" the foam of the boil. It works...
 
Dang, that's crazy. Would one of the 1oz bottles be good to keep around so you can use the dropper, or is there an easy way to extract just a few drops from the big half litre bottle?

Yes, keep one of the bottles. Or, you can buy 2oz bottles from Cynmar (they have a great cheap supply of all kinds of lab equipment).

This stuff does't last me as long as other say. I like to drive a hard boil I guess because I do need to use more than a few drops.
 
This thread is generally related to a very stupid question I have, but in the last two batches (my first two) I have always gotten boil overs. Some trouble immediately after adding hops, but it continues the whole time. I never reach a hot break point where the foam recedes.

I know what the concept of hotbreak is and I know extract brewing has very very little of it most of the time because of the original boil of LME, but I feel like I am either missing something or have the heat way too high and the bubbles just keep coming up. The bubbles are much thinner than others' videos describing the hot break, more of a foam you get when you boil pasta too hot and it keeps rising up. My common sense is telling me since the extract has little proteins that need to drop the foam I see really is just boiling it with the gas too high.

I have tried cold water spray bottle, which makes it subside a little bit, but keeps coming back up after a few seconds, and the spoon idea lasts for about 2 seconds before it just spills over the spoon. I have also tried lowering the heat and it keeps bubbling like a boil, but the temperature never increases past 210-ish in the top of the wort.

I hit OG both times, and the first beer was pretty good.

I guess the question is am I doing something wrong? Should I leave the heat on full blast to try and get past this bubbling, or is lowering it once I reach a very strong rolling boil fine? I know I will still end up with beer but I want to improve processes or I will do the same thing forever!
 
Yeah, don't worry about having the most vigorous boil, especially if you're doing extract batches. Since the malt extract was already boiled before being concentrated, you probably won't get much hot break if any at all (I never did). You're also topping off with water in the fermenter (I'm assuming), so how much you boil off of 3 gallons isn't going to matter a whole lot; if you're doing full boils, usually with all grain, the vigor of the boil relates to how you get the wort boiled down to the right batch size (usually 5.5 gallons) since you don't top off with water.

Also, the wort needs to be boiling, and that is all. It doesn't need to be a raging pot of bubbling and foaming liquid; as long as there is surface movement, the wort is boiling and everything is progressing as it should be. Give yourself a little headspace and it should be fine as long as you don't have the heat on super high.
 
Awesome, thanks! I know it sounded like a dumb question, but in my searches I saw people talking about their boiling temps and various other things that just got me confused. I appreciate the help, even for something so simple sounding!
 
Everything's simpler than you'd think with brewing, or so I've learned. After a while I realized that must of the brewing process had become second nature, like adjusting boil strength.

Good luck on your future brews. :mug:
 
I'm reading this thread with interest because I'm ready for my second home brew and would like to try a full boil method using an extract/steeping method. (My first homebrew turned out great despite every newbie mistake I could have made, lol...)

I'd like to use a 44 quart pot on a propane boiler outside for the boil. Please excuse the questions but I'd really like to get this right the first time.

1. I have John Palmer's "Example Batch" (Port O' Palmer Porter) in mind as the batch I'd like to try. It is the example given in chapter 13 wherein in describes steeping grains as an introduction (i.e. a baby step) to all-grain brewing. He says that for "...best flavor results, the ratio of steeping water to grain should be less than 1 gallon per pound." Does that mean that I would steep my grain(s) in one gallon of 160 degree water, and then remove the grains and add 4 more gallons of water and bring this to a boil before adding my hops according to the recipe schedule?

2. As per the discussion above, add my liquid extract during the last 10 minutes of the boil (instead of at the beginning as per a partial boil).

3. Top off to 5 gallons.

4. Cool wort using a wort chiller to the appropriate temperature for tossing yeast.

5. Take an OG reading.

6. Pour off into primary fermenter and toss yeast.

Best,

Steve
 
I'm reading this thread with interest because I'm ready for my second home brew and would like to try a full boil method using an extract/steeping method. (My first homebrew turned out great despite every newbie mistake I could have made, lol...)

I'd like to use a 44 quart pot on a propane boiler outside for the boil. Please excuse the questions but I'd really like to get this right the first time.

1. I have John Palmer's "Example Batch" (Port O' Palmer Porter) in mind as the batch I'd like to try. It is the example given in chapter 13 wherein in describes steeping grains as an introduction (i.e. a baby step) to all-grain brewing. He says that for "...best flavor results, the ratio of steeping water to grain should be less than 1 gallon per pound." Does that mean that I would steep my grain(s) in one gallon of 160 degree water, and then remove the grains and add 4 more gallons of water and bring this to a boil before adding my hops according to the recipe schedule?

2. As per the discussion above, add my liquid extract during the last 10 minutes of the boil (instead of at the beginning as per a partial boil).

3. Top off to 5 gallons.

4. Cool wort using a wort chiller to the appropriate temperature for tossing yeast.

5. Take an OG reading.

6. Pour off into primary fermenter and toss yeast.

Best,

Steve

1. Add more than 4 gallons of water after steeping the grains; bring it up to about 6.5-7 gallons so that once you boil for an hour you end up at 5.5 gallons (adjust the vigor of your boil to hit this mark).

2. You can add it all at the end. With extract I usually add 1/3 to 1/2 at the beginning of the boiling, then the rest at the end.

3. See #1.

4. Yes.

5. Why not. The biggest reason not to with extract is because the added water can cause inaccurate readings. If you do a full boil, I don't see why an OG reading would be that far off.

6. Make sure you properly aerate before/after pitching the yeast. The yeast needs lots of oxygen to get started on eating all those sugars.
 
Thanks for the response. Two more questions:

1. If I start with a 6.5 - 7 gallon boil, my aim is to get the liquid level down to 5.5 gallons. Once there, do I continue to boil until my OG is where I want it? I would think, for example, that the OG at 5.5 gallons is slightly lower than the OG at 5 gallons, since the sugars would be diluted. I guess that I am worried that I would destroy the effect of the hops if I boil for too long.

2. Palmer's recipe calls for 3 different malts; do I just steep these together in the same bag?

Best,

Steve
 
Thanks for the response. Two more questions:

1. If I start with a 6.5 - 7 gallon boil, my aim is to get the liquid level down to 5.5 gallons. Once there, do I continue to boil until my OG is where I want it? I would think, for example, that the OG at 5.5 gallons is slightly lower than the OG at 5 gallons, since the sugars would be diluted. I guess that I am worried that I would destroy the effect of the hops if I boil for too long.

2. Palmer's recipe calls for 3 different malts; do I just steep these together in the same bag?

Best,

Steve

1. I'd start with about 5.5-6 gallons since you don't know what you're going to boil off the first time. You can still top off to 5 gallons if you boil off more than you think, but you can't take it out! When you get a rolling boil going, add your first hops and set the timer for an hour and finish the boil at the right time. The hops are what are timed, so that's the important thing. Or you can do a test boil- boil water for an hour and measure how much you boiled off. Your boil off will be the same with wort or with water, so then you'll know how much to start with.

3. Yes. Put them loosely in the bag, so that they are not packed in. Use more than one bag if you need to.
 
Thanks! Test boiling is a great idea, since this will be the first time that I've used the pot and propane boiler. Some of this will have to be done by "feel" of course since I'll find that spot on the boiler that gives me the kind of boil that I want - and then hold it for an hour.
 
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