Will we be getting younger members soon?

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18 makes sence to me as well. I agree with the article about having alcohol education for 18-21 year olds, and not just after a DWI.
It's just weird to think that alcohol is a major taboo before you are 21, but suddenly disapears on midnight of your 21st b-day.

When I was stationed in Germany (where I learned to drink and enjoy beer) the drinking age on base was 18. The military didn't have a big problem with DWI.
Off base the leagle age was 14, and still there was no large peoblem.
 
Back in the 80's when I was in the Marines I was stationed in California. The drinking age was 21. We could get pretty Fu*ked up while on base where we could drink at 18. But you could only drink beer. Anyone that was 21 or over could order a mixed drink. I thought that this was bullsh!t at the time. I could defend my country but couldn't REALLY drink legally. Course now times have changed, every one wants to be able to drink at around 18. That's seems to be the perception of all teenagers that are coming of age. Actually it doesn't matter what the age is; be it 18,19, 20 or 21. People are going to find a way to do it no matter what. Where there's a will, there is a way!
 
Living in Detroit, Windsor, Canada is the major place a lot of kids go when they turn 19. Lots of business for Windsor and kids DUI home because the only thing they know to do is get wasted. My father was a lot older than many of my friends fathers when I was young, I learned to savor beer, wine from a much younger age than my friends. I'm thankful that between him my moms Greek side (did my name give it away...) the drinking age and getting hammered all the time never meant much to me. Now that I'm older and I know the dangers of alcohol well..... I let myself have a little more fun with it in a more controlled environment :D
 
21 is a stupid age limit. It is only there to provide a buffer for people too stupid working behind bars to tell if somebody is 18 or not.
//rant over.
 
When I was in high school/college, New York was an 18 state & New Jersey, 21. Lots of accidents along the border and that was used as part of the justification to raise the age in New York! Most of the students at Cornell were from 21 states & your first legal (18) drunk was a big deal. Struck me as rather stupid.

Now this is scary: Oregon Under 21 may consume alcohol only if married AND if spouse or guardian is present.

Had my first beer at 8. It was a hot, muggy Illinois summer day and the beer was warm. Didn't touch another for 11 years!
 
funny how this debate pops up every time the topic of reinstating the draft pops up.
 
In Louisiana the drinking laws are worded very careful as to not make it black and white 21-year-old drinking age. Alcohol can be consumed by anyone (I guess over 18) as long as it is private. Alcohol can not be purchased for someone under 21 unless it is by the parent/guardian or spouse. So, if your parents buy you boose, you can drink in private, but your parents can't give any of it to your friends.

I think that is fair.

I went to college in LA and the administration was very explicit as to say the dorms were not "private residences." But they never turned anyone over to the cops if they were caught drinking.
 
Hmm I'm so old I was legal to drink since I was 18. It was stupid to change it, but any state that changes it back loses their federal highway dollars, so it'll never happen.
 
Beerrific said:
In Louisiana the drinking laws are worded very careful as to not make it black and white 21-year-old drinking age. Alcohol can be consumed by anyone (I guess over 18) as long as it is private. Alcohol can not be purchased for someone under 21 unless it is by the parent/guardian or spouse. So, if your parents buy you boose, you can drink in private, but your parents can't give any of it to your friends.
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Same in Texas, you can even take your kid to a bar and buy them drinks, although every bar I have worked at had a policy against this, which caused problem at least once a month with some smart ass parent.
 
18 years old to drink here in Manitoba. I already had a full time job and my own place. Can't get much more grown up than that.
 
Fingers said:
18 years old to drink here in Manitoba. I already had a full time job and my own place. Can't get much more grown up than that.
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Now that's an idea! Why not let a judge sign a writ stating that a person that was under legal drinking age, which has a job and was self supportive. That they could have permission to buy and consume alcohol at a bar or purchase it at a store. But that person could not buy alcohol for anyone under the legal age. If they were caught doing this then they would forfeit that right to drink or buy alcohol and be put on probation with community service to boot.

Kinda like forfeiting your rights when one becomes incarcerated or commits a felony. Only problem I see with this is, it might burden the legal system even more.
 
What does it matter what age is set? It comes down to ability to drink safely. If you want to let your kids drink at 18, 16, 14, or 10 then let them, but let them do it at home. Create a safe environment for your children to drink.

The problem is that kids are forced to find hideouts where they can drink, then they have to drive home. It's not the drinking that's the problem, it's the driving. You hear about alcohol poisoning on the news, but it's pretty rare. What you hear about more is the date-rape and fights that result from unsupervised drinking.

I guarantee you that if you let your kids drink with you, they'd set themselves at the same pace you're drinking. Teach them how many is enough, and that they should only drink when they're somewhere safe.
 
I'll say this over and over.. if you are old enough to die for your country, you are old enough to drink under that government. Not to mention, I didn't know any kids that didn't drink because of the age limit.

and, Cheese, I agree 100%. Being forced to hide your drinking makes kids act stupid (er).
 
Beerrific said:
In Louisiana the drinking laws are worded very careful as to not make it black and white 21-year-old drinking age. Alcohol can be consumed by anyone (I guess over 18) as long as it is private. Alcohol can not be purchased for someone under 21 unless it is by the parent/guardian or spouse. So, if your parents buy you boose, you can drink in private, but your parents can't give any of it to your friends.

I think that is fair.
Click to expand...

Fair? How's that? "More fair", maybe, but it's still absurdly unfair that someone who can sign a contract, elect our leaders and fight/die in a war, can only drink "in private", and even then, only when their parents have bought the alcohol. It might be better than some states, but it's still idiotic.
 
But Mark Rosenker, chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, countered: “Why would we repeal or weaken laws that save lives? It doesn’t make sense.”
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Right, that's fantastic logic, dingleberry. You know what else would "save lives"? Outlawing automobiles. Hey, it saves lives, so why not? Forcing people to wear full body armor 24/7 would definitely save lives. Time for a new law, right, Mr. Chairman?

Ah, the ineptness of the government knows no bounds. :(
 
I agree with seefresh. I had to register for the selective service when I turned 18. If they think I could handle a gun, why not a beer?
 
Doesn't matter anyway what age you set the legal limit. Kids will always find a way to get it. Even I was drinking at 16. I had a part-time job and had friends that were of legal age (19 back then) who would buy it for me. Just like anything else in life, "if you want it bad enough then you'll find a way to get it".
 
Everyone here excited about the thought of their daughter being able to legally go into a bar and get drunk on the night of her 18th birthday, say "AYE!"
 
Cheesefood said:
Everyone here excited about the thought of their daughter being able to legally go into a bar and get drunk on the night of her 18th birthday, say "AYE!"
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I'd rather she be in a bar than in some frat house which is where she's gonna be if it's illegal for her to drink in the bar.
 
I'm fine with the legal age being 21. Even though you're still half-retarded at 21, that's a 100% improvement over 18. Does anyone remember what COMPLETELY irresponsible morons they were at 18??? Besides, having 18 be legal to buy beer makes it exponentially more available to other high-school students.

As a parent, I think it's fine if you want to let your kid drink at whatever age you deem appropriate. I know I plan to let my kids drink when they're younger than 21, but I think it's good that it's not legal without MY approval.

I'm also for raising the legal driving age to 18. I don't think your average 16 yr old is anywhere near responsible enough to operate a vehicle.
 
When you are 18 you take on responsibility for yourself. You are an adult. Our government needs to treat us that way. If my parents tried to "parent" me after I turned 18, I would have laughed and walked away. They understood I was an adult and did not make decisions for me anymore. That's how it should be.

Oh, and Cheese, it should be 18 for men, 30 for women. ;)
 
TheJadedDog said:
I'd rather she be in a bar than in some frat house which is where she's gonna be if it's illegal for her to drink in the bar.
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I would rather teach her to drink responsibly with responsible people in a safe manner.
OK does that make it obvious I don't have kids?
 
rdwj said:
As a parent, I think it's fine if you want to let your kid drink at whatever age you deem appropriate. I know I plan to let my kids drink when they're younger than 21, but I think it's good that it's not legal without MY approval.
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The people who want the age lowered to 18 are those who will profit off of increased sales. This is less of a libertarian issue and more of a capitalist idea. It's just like those who create marketing material to protest tobacco taxes. Has absolutely nothing to do with "defending the public" and 100% to do with selling more product.

Get kids drinking earlier, and their tolerance goes up quicker. Therefore, they'll soon go from splitting a case with 6 friends to drinking the case by themselves. Also, it gives marketing companies the opportunity to brand people at a more impressionable age.

It makes no sense to lower the drinking age. The last thing we need is another consumption item to make people fatter, lazier and dumber at a younger age. This isn't Europe where you can walk or bike to most places. The U.S. was built for the automobile and as such it means we need to be more careful about who we let drive.

Now, I'm not opposed to allowing the sale of alcohol to people under 21 in the presence of a parent. I'd actually support that, as it would give kids an opportunity to learn responsible drinking.
 
TheJadedDog said:
I'd rather she be in a bar than in some frat house which is where she's gonna be if it's illegal for her to drink in the bar.
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Or in a friend's basement without supervision and nobody sober around to make sure she doesn't go nutso.

The fact is, if you're relying on the justice system to keep your teenage kid from drinking irresponsibly, then you've already lost the fight. If they want to drink but can't walk into a bar and buy it legally, what do you think they're gonna do? Go home and play scrabble and drink Pepsi instead? No, they're gonna do what (I'm assuming) most of us did at that age: get it somewhere else. An of-age friend or acquaintance (our hookup was some guy who worked in the McD's drive-thru with my friend)...a bum hanging outside of 7-11 who is more than happy to buy you some Boone's Farm or MD 20/20 in exchange for a few bucks...or that one shop that everyone knows about that doesn't card anyone.

Being underage didn't prevent me from getting booze---my parents pretty much knew this. So they best thing they did is tell me that, if I were drunk, that it's okay, just don't drive home. Stay at my friend's house, or call them so they can pick me up, and they wouldn't be upset. And they reinforced the idea of being responsible. It doesn't mean I always was, but I was surely better off when I reached the drinking age than many people I knew...
 
Well said Evan. :mug:


Lots of the society in the UK are pushing for raising the age limit to 21.

Most 18 year olds are idiots, give them a drink and at best they are a pain in the but and at worst lethal.

I'll be hypocritical and say I support raising it to 21. I was in the pubs at 15 and clubs at 16. It also got me into trouble that wasn't worth it.
 
seefresh said:
If my parents tried to "parent" me after I turned 18, I would have laughed and walked away. They understood I was an adult and did not make decisions for me anymore. That's how it should be.
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Wow...

In retrospect, I'm kinda of happy about the parenting my parents gave me when I was 18. While I was "legally" an adult, in no way would I say I was responsible or able to make intelligent, informed decisions. I don't think that you magically go from kid to adult on the night of your 18th birthday.
 
seefresh said:
When you are 18 you take on responsibility for yourself. You are an adult. Our government needs to treat us that way. If my parents tried to "parent" me after I turned 18, I would have laughed and walked away. They understood I was an adult and did not make decisions for me anymore. That's how it should be.

Oh, and Cheese, it should be 18 for men, 30 for women. ;)
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Sounds like the words of nearly every 18 year old still living in off their parent's dime that I've ever met. As I get older, I totally see why why parents laughed at me when I gave them that same load of ****. The 18 yr olds that I've met that are even REMOTELY close to what I'd consider an adult are few and far between.

Being leagally responsible for your actions and being a responsible adult are two totally different things. Were you completely on your own and paying all your own bills at 18?
 
Cheesefood said:
The people who want the age lowered to 18 are those who will profit off of increased sales. This is less of a libertarian issue and more of a capitalist idea.
Click to expand...

Care to back that up with facts? Personally, I have nothing to gain from it. So what about me?

Get kids drinking earlier, and their tolerance goes up quicker. Therefore, they'll soon go from splitting a case with 6 friends to drinking the case by themselves. Also, it gives marketing companies the opportunity to brand people at a more impressionable age.
Click to expand...

This very well may be true, and the motives of the alcohol industry very well may be sinister. But that doesn't speak to the validity of the argument in any way. Most of us can agree that slavery was a bad thing and needed to be repealed...but if there happened to be an "evil corporation" that stood to profit off of abolition, would it make any difference? No, abolition would still be just as valid. Just because the alcohol industry supports lowering the age (supposedly) does not speak one bit to whether the idea itself is valid; such an argument is a logical fallacy:

A supports X.
A is bad.
Therefore, X must be bad.

No...does not compute.

It makes no sense to lower the drinking age. The last thing we need is another consumption item to make people fatter, lazier and dumber at a younger age. This isn't Europe where you can walk or bike to most places. The U.S. was built for the automobile and as such it means we need to be more careful about who we let drive.
Click to expand...

So, enforce drunk driving laws, then. It makes sense to lower the drinking age for the reasons outlined in that article. If it's illegal, kids are just going to go "underground" and drink more in unsupervised situations. And this is a good thing?

Now, I'm not opposed to allowing the sale of alcohol to people under 21 in the presence of a parent. I'd actually support that, as it would give kids an opportunity to learn responsible drinking.
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Should their parents also follow them to Iraq and hold their hand while they fire their automatic rifle at insurgents?

Kids can learn responsible drinking from their parents even in the absence of such a law---providing that said parents are any good at their job as parents.

But you've still not explained to me why, the instant people turn 21 years of age, some sort of magical responsibility switch gets flipped...and suddenly, they go from not being able to buy a single beer at a bar, to being able to buy an entire case of aristocrat vodka, overnight. Does that really make sense? Is a 21 year old really that much more responsible than a 20-year-old?
 
Cheesefood said:
In retrospect, I'm kinda of happy about the parenting my parents gave me when I was 18. While I was "legally" an adult, in no way would I say I was responsible or able to make intelligent, informed decisions. I don't think that you magically go from kid to adult on the night of your 18th birthday.
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Same here. I wasn't magically transformed on my 18th birthday, or my 21st. Which makes the idea of a national drinking age absurd to begin with. At 18, was I responsible enough to have a drink? I think so. Was I responsible enough to fire an automatic weapon in a warzone, or take a bullet from someone else's? No, I doubt it. Yet, our laws reflect the exact opposite of that.
 
I'm willing to allow any 18 yr old with a military ID to enter a bar and have a beer, since it will, for once and for all, put an end to the tired argument of being able to die for your country and not being able to have a drink in a pub.
 
Evan! said:
Care to back that up with facts? Personally, I have nothing to gain from it. So what about me?
Click to expand...

http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2004/coors-head-seeking-senate-for.html

Evan! said:
This very well may be true, and the motives of the alcohol industry very well may be sinister. But that doesn't speak to the validity of the argument in any way. Most of us can agree that slavery was a bad thing and needed to be repealed...but if there happened to be an "evil corporation" that stood to profit off of abolition, would it make any difference? No, abolition would still be just as valid. Just because the alcohol industry supports lowering the age (supposedly) does not speak one bit to whether the idea itself is valid; such an argument is a logical fallacy:
Click to expand...

It was called "The Cotton Industry". Why do you think it took so much effort to abolish slavery?
 
Well, I wasn't sheltered as a teenager and I started working when I was 14. I bought my own car before I turned 15, I started forming my own opinion when I was 13... I was more than ready to assume responsibility by the time I was 18, I moved out of my parents when I was 17! Anyone will be responsible if their parents don't baby them and make them think they are children. I was a man by the time I was 18. I'm sorry, but if you go through puberty at 12 and 13, 5 years is more than enough time to learn about life and what you need to do with yourself.
 
seefresh said:
Well, I wasn't sheltered as a teenager and I started working when I was 14. I bought my own car before I turned 15, I started forming my own opinion when I was 13... I was more than ready to assume responsibility by the time I was 18, I moved out of my parents when I was 17! Anyone will be responsible if their parents don't baby them and make them think they are children. I was a man by the time I was 18. I'm sorry, but if you go through puberty at 12 and 13, 5 years is more than enough time to learn about life and what you need to do with yourself.
Click to expand...

Most kids aren't even done with school until they're 22-25 these days. Once they're completely on their own, they're closer to 30 than 18
 
It was called "The Cotton Industry". Why do you think it took so much effort to abolish slavery?
Click to expand...

Read what I wrote again. I said that, if there was an evil corporation who stood to benefit from abolition, that wouldn't have any effect on how good abolition was.

Not slavery, abolition.
 

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