Appeared to Ferment for 4 days but has no Yeast Cake

Looked but couldn't find exact situation that I need help with.

I tried a Young's Double Chocolate Stout Clone AG recipe I found in BYO magazine. Followed the recipe (but doubled it to be a 10g) pretty much minus a few extra sugars my HBS said I didn't have to have and it started fermenting (or at least I thought it was) no problem on Wednesday. Fermented for a few days and then yesterday stopped.

I opened the lid and saw that there does not appear to be any Yeast Build up.

I'm concerned as to how it looked to be fermenting but there is hardly any visible yeast cake. What are my options now? I would like to save this batch as I paid quite a lot for all the ingredients it being a 10gallon batch.

Was the Fermentation? not really the kind I wanted? Was it a bacteria that was fermenting possibly turning my beer into Vinegar? I tried it and it smells odd but taste like coffee and chocolate.

Can I perhaps get some more yeast and add it to it??

Thanks in advance and sorry for the length.
This is only my 5th AG Batch and all the others turned out great.

The temp on the Recipe was 68' F so I kept it there with a variance of 2 degrees +/-

It sounds like you are using a bucket and that you expect to see the yeast cake at the bottom after fermentation. Through a Double Black Stout?
Take a gravity reading. This is your first measure of successful fermentation. Do not do anything until you find out if the first yeast accomplished its mission.

Wait, I shouldn't be able to see the yeast on top?? So It's on the bottom then? I have a hydrometer but not exactly sure how to read it. There are no lines that move on it to tell me 10.60 or whatever. I usually let it go until it's done.

Thanks

What I mean is, every time I've brewed in the past (with the same yeast) I've had a layer of yeast cake on the top. And now when I do not see a very thick healthy yeast build up I am concerned for the beer.

Cheers

That layer on the top will fall to the bottom once fermentation has completed. Taking a gravity reading is the only foolproof method to determine if fermentation is complete. If you take readings for 3 consecutive days and they are the same, fermentation is completed. If your hydrometer doesn't have a scale in it, its not much use. do yourself a favor and get a new one.

Cheers,
Glenn

vertexbrew said:

Wait, I shouldn't be able to see the yeast on top?? So It's on the bottom then? I have a hydrometer but not exactly sure how to read it. There are no lines that move on it to tell me 10.60 or whatever. I usually let it go until it's done.

Thanks

Click to expand...

If I am understanding what you mean, nothing on your hydrometer will move. It is not like a thermometer. When you place it in the wort or beer it will sink to a level based on the gravity of the liquid. You read the line that is at the surface of the beer. Pure water should read 1.000. Your beer will be higher than that. Sorry if I am assuming too much here.

What is YOUR definition of "signs of fermenting" that you are referring to? Are you saying the AIRLOCK was bubbling? That is really not an accurate "sign" the airlock is not a fermentation gauge, it is a valve to release excess co2 (and even02 as it is initially being purged by the co2 building up initially after the yeast starts working.) But many beers brew without a blip in the airlocks, others ferment strongly and bubble for a couple of days, but as the excess co2 production winds down there may not be a need for it to blip, yet there is still plenty of fermenting it still needs to do.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading, NOT go by airlocks. The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It;'s the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty. So is looking at the amount of kra usen you have or whether it is still there or not . It could have been a very fast and clean ferment and the krausen could have formed and fallen quicky, or it still hasn't formed yet, since sometimes there's a 72 hour lag time before it even begins to form.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

Thinking about "doing anything" without taking a hydrometer reading is tantamount to the doctor deciding to cut you open without running any diagnostic tests....Taking one look at you and saying, "Yeah I'm going in." You would really want the doctor to use all means to properly diagnose what's going on?

So if you are in doubt, take a reading and it will tell you and us what is happening.

The "cake" that forms on top of your beers regularly isn't the yeast cake. It's krausen. Basically it's just whipped up beer, yeast and anything else that you have in your fermenter when you have extremely active fermentation. If you have a slow fermentation (typical in a stout) then you might not get much of a krausen at all. The cake is what's left after fermentation is complete and everything settles at the bottom of the fermenter.

A fermentation lock will demonstrate that the gas pressure in the fermenter is a few cm of water greater than atmospheric pressure. Ongoing gas production will either result in release of the gas pressure by one route or another, or absorption of the CO2 into solution, as in carbonation. However, you can only use the lock as a measure of gas production if there is not an easier way out for the gas. If your system is really airtight, then the lock will be telling. That seems a bit optimistic for a bucket, especially on that has been used a few times. It doesn't take much of a scratch on the edge for the gasket to no longer give that tight of a seal. If you were fermenting in a corny keg it might be a different story.

Thanks everyone. I set the Hydrometer in and it sinks down all the way to the 20 at the top. So...10.20??
It's near the top. Thats at the 0-5% alcohol content range about 2.5% not much but it smells good. It went strong for 4 days and it's only at 10.20, I'll try again tomorrow hopefully it will be higher.

Thanks for telling me how to use the hydrometer so simple.

cheers.

i'll check tomorrow and if I'm still at 10.20 by Wednesday I guess It's done. And I'll keg it.

Also, that doesn't mean your beer is only 2.5%. You take the alcohol percentage that corresponds to your original gravity(pre fermentation) and subtract the alcohol percentage that corresponds to your final gravity. Sounds like you are on the right track now.

malc said:

Also, that doesn't mean your beer is only 2.5%. You take the alcohol percentage that corresponds to your original gravity(pre fermentation) and subtract the alcohol percentage that corresponds to your final gravity. Sounds like you are on the right track now.

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Ok thanks! So it's actually probably higher than 2.5% because it really taste higher than that, I can for sure taste a high alcohol.

I did not do a prefermentation gravity reading but I will for now on, now that I know the process. It taste good, prob just needs to age.

?oh and also is it normal for it to be completely done in four days??

Cheers,

Let us know how the clone turns out. I'm finding it nearly impossible to find Young's anymore, especially in those nitro cans.

Revvy said:

Let us know how the clone turns out. I'm finding it nearly impossible to find Young's anymore, especially in those nitro cans.

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They have them at a local liquor store near my house called Ray's for $2.99ea
Way expensive considering I'm making 10g for $66 so about .60 a beer.

Also I know Bevmo carries them in four packs.

Cheers!

10g makes 90-100 12oz beers right? So $66/100 = .66

Anybody have a good technique for bottling from a pony keg so that the bottles keep the same level of carbonation as from tap. Mine seem to be perfect on tap but lacking on the co2 from the bottles. And I don't know why.

And I'm not fond of the idea of putting sugar in the bottom before hand because I don't want there to be visible 'crap' at the bottom, it's not appealing.

Vertex, if you post your recipe I will see if I can get a swag at what your OG and % alcohol should be.

Vertexbrew, did you try Biermuncher's bottle filler? https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-need-no-stinking-beer-gun-24678/ It's a sticky under bottling/kegging. I actually just tried it this weekend for some bottles to give away. Not too painful, as bottling goes. Certainly a better price than a beergun, and made sense for my infrequent use.

Remember though, I double the amounts since I did a 10g.......Thanks!
Youngs Double Chocolate Stout Clone


Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 9.06
Anticipated OG: 1.051 Plato: 12.60
Anticipated SRM: 29.7
Anticipated IBU: 34.9

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.5 0.50 lbs. Golden Syrup (Partially Inver Great Britian 1.036 2
77.2 7.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
7.6 0.69 lbs. Crystal 60L America 1.034 60
4.8 0.44 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.029 350
4.8 0.44 lbs. Carafa Germany 1.030 400

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
39.69 g. Fuggle Whole 4.75 29.6 60 min.
7.09 g. Goldings - E.K. Whole 4.75 5.3 60 min.

Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
12.00 Oz Lactose Other 15 Min.(boil)
0.33 Oz Liquid Chocolate Extract Other 14 Days(secondary)
6.00 Oz Cocoa Powder Other 15 Min.(boil)

Yeast
-----
Wyeast 1318 London Ale III

ThreeDogsNE said:

Vertexbrew, did you try Biermuncher's bottle filler? https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-need-no-stinking-beer-gun-24678/ It's a sticky under bottling/kegging. I actually just tried it this weekend for some bottles to give away. Not too painful, as bottling goes. Certainly a better price than a beergun, and made sense for my infrequent use.

Click to expand...

Thanks, ya I might get one of those. My HBS has a bottle gun for 80 bucks but I've already spent so much money making my AG system. So I'm really on the budget now.

Turned out great! Doesn't taste exactly like Young's but very close. Everyone who has tried it is impressed and I'm surprised it taste has good as it does.

Thanks everyone for you advice and input.

Just made it again and it is delicious! It taste way better after I let it age for an extra week. WOW.