So control panels are super intimidating.

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BudzAndSudz

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I'm getting a handle on all of it now, but a week ago when I started my research I had not the SLIGHTEST clue where to start.

I'm thinking I'd like to go with some sort of a kit though, with the hopes that I won't accidentally order an incompatible part and knock back the completion date by a week or short something out etc. Are there any good kits available? TheElectricBrewery.com has one, but I'm trying to not spend $1700 on this project. I'm guessing almost $1000 can be knocked off that price by purchasing the parts separately. Ebrewsupply.com has a nice looking kit, but leaves a lot of parts left to be ordered on my own. Is there a nice middle ground? Or at least a third option?
 
It really depends on what you want your setup to do. I would look at a lot of the examples on here and then draw out what you want, and then draw it again. It's time consuming, but it really helps.
 
It's gonna be a fairly basic 3 kettle HERMS system, I'm thinking one 5.5kw element in the hlt, and propane for the boil kettle. One PID should be sufficient, I'm just feelin pretty overwhelmed even by something as easy as that. I just have literally no experience with wiring.
 
Don't know what your budget is, but if your going to make the hlt electric I would also make the bk electric. I would really check out http://theelectricbrewery.com/ Not saying that you should build that system, but going through his setup will give you some really good ideas and make you think about what you really want.
 
Haha well obviously I've gone through that website, but like I said in my first post, I'm trying to avoid spending $1700 on the panel. I CAN afford it, but I'd sure like to avoid it.

I am feeling super tempted to make my BK electric as well. The thought of never buying propane again is just wonderful.
 
Is there a downside to using a pull-box instead of a standard enclosure? It looks like it'll save me somewhere around $50 or so, but I want to see if there's a drawback I'm missing. The hoffman pull-box I found has punchouts as well, which would be nice instead of drilling all the holes myself for running wires etc.
 
Actually to just order the parts collection from theelectricbrewery it will be cheaper than piecing it together yourself. Sorry to say but he's buying the parts in bulk and you won't have multiple shipping costs to pay for. That is of course if you are looking for a system like that.
 

Mine will be a 30A with element switch controlling 5500W elements in the boil and hlt. I also wanted to do it for less than 1700, and while I'm not sparing no expense I'm also not going ghetto. Expected cost will be about 700 to 800 when I'm done, parts from ebay and Auber Instruments. If you don't care about Turnlok plugs or a nice steel enclosure you could do it for 200 less than I am.
 
Identify what features you really want and what your budget is. You don't need a controller at all if you are prepared to hover over a thermometer turning the element on and off. PID control did not exist for the first few thousand years of mashing :)

As dbcw says, if you go the DIY route you will find that a fancy box costs at least as much as the electronics. Or you could use an old PC case. If you know where to look you can get very serviceable enclosures for nothing as free samples from manufacturers.
 
Lest we no forget the classic toolbox enclosure or my personal favorite, the ammo box enclosure.

2 pids
3 contactors
2 temp probes
2 three position switches
1 on / off switch
2 ssr.

No lights, no buzzers, no e-stop or pump controls, just the absolute basics. Thats how I build my first control box a couple years ago. I had it in an aluminum enclousure, I never used a heatsink, as I figured the metal box would absorb it. It never got more than just slightly warm. It fit my needs great until a friend talked me into selling it to him.
 
If you decide to do the Kal setup, just buy it prebuilt...trust me from someone making it for 9 months....much better to buy a built and tested unit and probably as cheap as buying the parts yourself.
 
If you decide to do the Kal setup, just buy it prebuilt...trust me from someone making it for 9 months....much better to buy a built and tested unit and probably as cheap as buying the parts yourself.

Can't be that bad, can it? Like I said I'm at about $568.00 right now for a 2-pid, 2-element panel (no timer or 3rd pid, no safe start interlock), and all I have yet to buy is misc wire, wire connectors, and of course build it. That's a lot better than $1700 for parts. I already have a multimeter.

Did you encounter the difficulty during the build and debugging? What kinds of issues did you have?
 
Does everyone feel that some sort of analog dial or dimmer switch is necessary for the element on the BK? Or does it work equally well to just set the second PID to 198 degrees (boiling temperature, adjusted for my altitude and let it cycle the element? Bump it up one degree in either direction to make the boil more or less intense....
 
The timer was $100 all the buttons it added up quick............I don't have the breakdown. I am actually wiring my panel over the next 1 - 2 weeks so I will have more information in a few weeks.
 
louie0202 said:
if you decide to do the kal setup, just buy it prebuilt...trust me from someone making it for 9 months....much better to buy a built and tested unit and probably as cheap as buying the parts yourself.

+1
 
Plus I had to buy tools that I didn't already have to make the panel, and I love tools so I am ok with that...but tools make the cost go up too....Now if you have the tools and work somewhere where you can get a lot of the stuff free or cheap then
 
Actually to just order the parts collection from theelectricbrewery it will be cheaper than piecing it together yourself. Sorry to say but he's buying the parts in bulk and you won't have multiple shipping costs to pay for. That is of course if you are looking for a system like that.

I disagree - I have priced out my parts, and including shipping, I'm running about half the cost of his kit, with most of the same parts (all the major parts, PIDs, relays, enclosure, etc. are identical).

There are so many places online (especially in the States) that ship for free. Yes, it's a bit of a hassle to source them and wait for 20 different deliveries, but $750 buys a lot of beer ingredients.

I would check it out. It's a great system - I can't wait until mine is built.
 
Identify what features you really want and what your budget is. You don't need a controller at all if you are prepared to hover over a thermometer turning the element on and off. PID control did not exist for the first few thousand years of mashing :)

As dbcw says, if you go the DIY route you will find that a fancy box costs at least as much as the electronics. Or you could use an old PC case. If you know where to look you can get very serviceable enclosures for nothing as free samples from manufacturers.

I found (through help here) the same enclosure that Kal used in his build on ebay for $100, shipped. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shipping-Da...ultDomain_0&hash=item5d3512ca4c#ht_8446wt_918

It's backordered at the moment so it will take a while to get, but for a nice enclosure I thought that was pretty reasonable.
 

Personally, I think it's a nice little box. Is it great? No, but that's my opinion. It has both PID and PWM control of a single element and on/off control for a pump. I don't agree with the statement regarding "futzing" of the buttons for power control of the element. In that regard if you buy a PID with manual control you eliminate the need for the PWM.

It will probably work for your system, as you say, if you move the element plug and the probe. Most likely it's be a LOT easier if you bought an extra probe.

It could also be used to control a RIMS tube - but I can't tell if there's an interlock between the RIMS switch and the pump. Probably not, which is something you want for a RIMs setup.

I've made ammo can controllers with RIMS tubes included for $400.
 
Personally, I think it's a nice little box. Is it great? No, but that's my opinion. It has both PID and PWM control of a single element and on/off control for a pump. I don't agree with the statement regarding "futzing" of the buttons for power control of the element. In that regard if you buy a PID with manual control you eliminate the need for the PWM.

It will probably work for your system, as you say, if you move the element plug and the probe. Most likely it's be a LOT easier if you bought an extra probe.

It could also be used to control a RIMS tube - but I can't tell if there's an interlock between the RIMS switch and the pump. Probably not, which is something you want for a RIMs setup.

I've made ammo can controllers with RIMS tubes included for $400.


Thanks for your response! I'm doing HERMS, so the RIMS capability doesn't phase me to be honest.

Just for clarification purposes, how will an extra probe make it easier? I'll still have a thermowell with a digital thermometer in my MLT, I just won't have it reading back to a PID. With my temperature probe for the PID in the end of the HERMS coil, I should have fairly accurate and consistent control over my mash temps. Am I missing something?
 
The High Garvity controller appears to have the Auber 2352 with manual mode along side the PWM so it looks like you could try both with it and choose your preference. A knob is nice and intuitive and quick, but the percentage read out is also nice on the PID in manual mode to give you a number to help dial in your boil off.

I'm not sure how they have it set up though. Does the Heat switch turn the whole system on or just the PWM? Are the PID and PWM on at the same time?
 
Thanks for your response! I'm doing HERMS, so the RIMS capability doesn't phase me to be honest.

Just for clarification purposes, how will an extra probe make it easier? I'll still have a thermowell with a digital thermometer in my MLT, I just won't have it reading back to a PID. With my temperature probe for the PID in the end of the HERMS coil, I should have fairly accurate and consistent control over my mash temps. Am I missing something?

You said you would move the plugs and the probes. It's a whole lot easier to buy 2 probes and move the probe connection than to unscrew the probe and move it. The problem with this is that each probe could calibrate differently.

Otherwise, I think you've figured out how you would use it.
 
Just chiming in to let you know that it can be done. I built a Kal clone before the pre-built or part kits were available. I had ZERO electrical experience before building this panel and learned a ton by building it myself. Takes a while to source all the parts yourself, but it is cheaper than buying prebuilt plus you'll have the experience of building it which can help with any problems that might come up. It was fun too!
 
I disagree - I have priced out my parts, and including shipping, I'm running about half the cost of his kit, with most of the same parts (all the major parts, PIDs, relays, enclosure, etc. are identical).
Can you post a list of vendors you're getting these from? It will help others here. Actually, it would help me as well.! :) We buy in large volumes from dozens of vendors and we can't get anywhere near 1/2 the price of the kit like you mentioned. (Note that our kit is currently $1420 - not $1700 as some mentioned).

Some of our suppliers have changed too for our kits/pre-assembled control panels. For example, we don't use Pioneer Breaker for much of anything anymore. The enclosures and switches all come from elsewhere as we find the quality better/more consistent.

Kal
 
(Note that our kit is currently $1420 - not $1700 as some mentioned).

Kal

Ahh yes I'm glad you said that. I realized I had made that mistake and meant to correct it out of fairness to you, but it slipped my mind. $1420 is still a bit out of my price range, but quite a good deal when you consider how incredible the panel truly is.
 
Can you post a list of vendors you're getting these from? It will help others here. Actually, it would help me as well.! :) We buy in large volumes from dozens of vendors and we can't get anywhere near 1/2 the price of the kit like you mentioned. (Note that our kit is currently $1420 - not $1700 as some mentioned).

Some of our suppliers have changed too for our kits/pre-assembled control panels. For example, we don't use Pioneer Breaker for much of anything anymore. The enclosures and switches all come from elsewhere as we find the quality better/more consistent.

Kal

I'll put together a list and post it. When I wrote the above I had not purchased everything yet, but I am still coming in a lot cheaper than ordering the kit - especially because so much of it came with free shipping, and I had access to a cross-border shipping depot that enabled me to take advantage of that.

I ended up buying the same PIDs, but opted for the Auber timer and different SSRs and relays. Nearly everything else I bought, as far as I can tell, was the same as Kal's parts.

I ordered my enclosure from Pioneer Breaker, but that was it.

The rest came from a mix of US and Chinese ebay sellers and Amazon.com

I doubt I'm at half price after I add everything up, but still saved a bunch. That said, I like searching and price-comparing online. If you don't have the time or desire to do that, then by all means, order the kit. Like Kal, price for me was not necessarily the chief concern. Before I ordered a part that was different than what's in Kal's kit, I did my best to research it to make sure it was reliable and would work.

I still think the kit is good value, but it just wasn't the direction I wanted to go.

And with that said, let's see if the thing powers up when I turn the key in a few months time after building it!

Nearly everything is in my garage now - just waiting on the panel amp meter and the enclosure itself.
 
I'll put together a list and post it. When I wrote the above I had not purchased everything yet... I doubt I'm at half price after I add everything up, but still saved a bunch.
FYI, don't forget all the small parts. There's a considerable amount of small items that add up that people forget, including:

(Qty: 1) 8-32 x 1" stove bolt and nut
(Qty: 6) Size 4 x 1" wood/metal screw
(Qty: 10) 6-32 x 1/2" machine screw
(Qty: 6) 6-32 nut
(Qty: 13) 3/16 x 1/2" stove bolt and nut
(Qty: 4) 1/8 x 1/2" stove bolt
(Qty: 4) 1/8" Stainless steel cap nuts
(Qty: 6) 1/4-20 x 1" stove bolt
(Qty: 1) 305mm (12") handles (2 pack)
(Qty: 2) 127mm (5") handles (2 pack)
(Qty: 1) Tube of all purpose clear silicone sealant
(Qty: 1) JB Weld cold weld compound
(1 tube) Heat sink compound
(Qty: 2) 8 position terminal strip, 20 amp
(Qty: 1) In-line fuse holder for 5x25mm fuses, rated to at least 7A/125V
(Qty: 1) 7A/250V fast blow fuse, glass tube 5x25mm
(Qty: 16) 3/16 x 3/4" stove bolt and nut
(Qty: 4) 1/8 x 1/2" stove bolt and nut
(Qty: 4) Small flat rubber washer (1/2" diameter)
(8 feet) Black 10 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
(4 feet) Red 10 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
(11 feet) Green 10 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
(35 feet) Black 14 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
(6 feet) Red 14 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
(21 feet) White 14 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
(60 feet) 22-24 gauge telephone station or similar low voltage signal wire (rated to 300V)
(Qty: 25) 22-18 gauge #6 narrow spade terminal (red)
(Qty: 140) 16-14 gauge #6 narrow spade terminal (blue)
(Qty: 20) 12-10 gauge 3/8" stud ring terminal (yellow)
(2 feet) Spiral wire wrap
(Qty: 55) Self-adhesive tie mount
(Qty: 120) Nylon cable tie

Unless you've priced out all these things ahead of time, I'm not sure how you can possibly do any sort of price comparison.

Kal
 
I have to agree with Kal on price. I built my own Kal clone earlier this year. After purchasing everything I really didn't save that much but I sure did enjoy the process and following the great instructions he provides. For those that don't want to take on the build themselves Kals pre built options are great. I love this setup and enjoy brewing more than ever before.
 
Prices are including shipping. As I mentioned, I bought some alternate parts (noted with *) in some cases, so this is not a complete "Kal Clone"

Enclosure: - $100 - Ebay (Pioneer Breaker)
PIDs and Timeer - $183 (Auber Instruments)
2x 40a SSRs w/ Heatsink - $23.72 (Amazon) *
Volt Meter - $16 - Ebay seller anna758595
Amp Meter - $16 - Ebay seller lonxinelectronics
Red LED - $7 - Ebay seller Alpinetech
Blue LED - $7 - Ebay seller Aplinetech
2x Green LEDs - $14 - Ebay seller Aplinetech
2x Yellow LEDs - $3.29 - Ebay seller buonshopping
Buzzer - $2.49 - Ebay seller coolcheapworld
3 pos switch - $ 3.50 - Ebay seller coolcheapworld
6x 2 pos switches - $21 - Ebay seller coolcheapworld
Keyed switch - $5 - Ebay seller coolcheapworld
Red pushbutton - $3.59 - Ebay seller jumbo4u
3x 3pin XLR chassis connectors - $10.80 - ebay seller msbat
2x L6-30 outlets - $70 - Amazon
2x L5-15 outlets - $28.60 - Amazon
L14-30 outlet - $ 31.63 - Amazon
2x 8pos terminal strips - $7.09 Amazon
Wire clips - $6.48 - Amazon
JB weld - $6 - Amazon
3x DPST relays $32.55 - Future Electronics *
2x doorbell transformers - $20.74 - Amazon
2x adjustable power supply - $11.90 - Ebay seller marcmart.home

So, that all totals to $631.38 - again, including taxes and shipping. Tack on another $20 for package receiving at a facility in Point Roberts WA - most of the US sellers sent stuff there, most of the Chinese sellers mailed directly to me.

So, as far as I can tell, the parts I used were identical to Kal's links on Ebay and Amazon (which I used whenever I could) with the exceptions noted above. The heat sinks on the SSRs appear the same as the "Standard" 40 amp heat sinks described on Kal's site.

I haven't priced out the wires, terminals, or nuts and bolts, so I'm unsure on that, but I'm willing to bet it won't be more than $60-75. I was going to buy the terminals with the Amazon order but had trouble finding the right sizes and quantities (ie, I didn't need 500 pcs!)

I also skipped the handles - didn't think they were necessary.

Some other deals I found:
GFCI cord - $43 shipped from Hosfelt Electric - this took a lot of searching.
Camco elements $41.70 from Amazon (for two)
Auto-range multi-meter - $28.54 - Ebay seller smtzone, it's way nicer than I expected for the price.

Probably my favourite deal is the cords and plugs for the elements - 2xL6-30 plugs and 9 feet (on each plug) of the exact cord that Kal specifies were only $34 shipped from Ebay seller bb-breakers.

So, while it's not an exact clone, I feel the "important" parts are all the same. And if I have to replace a cheap amazon SSR down the road, well, I guess I'll learn my lesson then.
 
I also skipped the handles - didn't think they were necessary.
You don't think you need them until the day when it the panel falls over on itself by accident while you were working on it (it's front heavy) and breaks off a couple of buttons (ask me how I know). They're like seat belts.

They're more useful while you're building and moving it around than once it's up on the wall. The top ones are a god-send just to be able to carry the heavy *@#$& thing around. It's almost 40 lbs and without any handles it's a pain to manage.

Don't forget the panel tags too, and spray paint, silicone, etc.

Kal
 
+1 on the front handles. You never realize how often the thing winds up on its face while you're working on it...
 
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