Newell's Groundhog Cider (woodchuck amber clone)

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Thanks for the recipe. Anyone try this recipe with bottles. Is there a way to bottle it carbonated without having glass shards shoot around my basement.
 
Here's a question, and sorry if it has been covered:

I have this going right now. How is woodchuck back sweetening when they bottle? I want to bottle it, carbed, and am thinking about using splenda like with Apfelwein. I just want to maintain the great flavor.

still looking for an answer ^^
 
still looking for an answer ^^

My understanding is woodchuck is backsweetened and force carbonated. I would assume that yeast is taken out via filtering and that they use preservatives like sorbate and k-meta.

my best results for making a woodchuck styled cider using backsweetening is to use what I call double sweet cider (process below).

1. Take cider that is fermented dry
2. Add 1/4 rounded tsp of sorbate per gallon of finished product.
3. Rack cider into bottling bucket, onto sorbate leaving any yeast behind.
4. add double sweet cider to taste (this is fresh unpasteurized cider that I have let thaw about half way, then I pour off the liquid and leave the ice chunk behind. this results in a very sweet "double sweet" cider to backsweeten with). I usually end up adding about 1/3 double sweet cider to 2/3 hard cider for gravity in the 1.022-26 range.
5. Once you have it tasting the way you want, add 1 crushed campden tablet per finished volume gallon into your keg.
6. Rack in the cider from the bottling bucket into a keg, force carb and give a couple days before you try.

Note: The sulphites will possibly taste funny for about 24hrs, then the flavor will dissipate. If you don't sulphite and only sorbate there is potential for the sorbate to interact with malolactic bacteria causing an unpleasant geranium smell. Sorbate is sometimes attacked by malolactic bacteria. Malolactic bacteria will likely only be present in fresh pressed unpasteurized cider.
 
Note: The sulphites will possibly taste funny for about 24hrs, then the flavor will dissipate. If you don't sulphite and only sorbate there is potential for the sorbate to interact with malolactic bacteria causing an unpleasant geranium smell. Sorbate is sometimes attacked by malolactic bacteria. Malolactic bacteria will likely only be present in fresh pressed unpasteurized cider.

Are there any rough guidelines on how long it takes for the malolactic bacteria to start their attack? I have some friends with sulphite sensitivities who love cider and I would love to be able to make them a sulphite free cider.

I will be kegging this and it will most likely be consumed quickly after force carbonating.

Thanks for the help!
 
My understanding is woodchuck is backsweetened and force carbonated. I would assume that yeast is taken out via filtering and that they use preservatives like sorbate and k-meta.

my best results for making a woodchuck styled cider using backsweetening is to use what I call double sweet cider (process below).

1. Take cider that is fermented dry
2. Add 1/4 rounded tsp of sorbate per gallon of finished product.
3. Rack cider into bottling bucket, onto sorbate leaving any yeast behind.
4. add double sweet cider to taste (this is fresh unpasteurized cider that I have let thaw about half way, then I pour off the liquid and leave the ice chunk behind. this results in a very sweet "double sweet" cider to backsweeten with). I usually end up adding about 1/3 double sweet cider to 2/3 hard cider for gravity in the 1.022-26 range.
5. Once you have it tasting the way you want, add 1 crushed campden tablet per finished volume gallon into your keg.
6. Rack in the cider from the bottling bucket into a keg, force carb and give a couple days before you try.

Note: The sulphites will possibly taste funny for about 24hrs, then the flavor will dissipate. If you don't sulphite and only sorbate there is potential for the sorbate to interact with malolactic bacteria causing an unpleasant geranium smell. Sorbate is sometimes attacked by malolactic bacteria. Malolactic bacteria will likely only be present in fresh pressed unpasteurized cider.

I don't want to keg it
 
Are there any rough guidelines on how long it takes for the malolactic bacteria to start their attack? I have some friends with sulphite sensitivities who love cider and I would love to be able to make them a sulphite free cider.

I will be kegging this and it will most likely be consumed quickly after force carbonating.

Thanks for the help!

you can probably get away with it in a keg, just be careful and don't bottle it. Yeast has a crazy way of fermenting along even if slow. cold crash the cider and try to rack minimal yeast off the bottle (or none) to slow down their chance to start reproducing.

As for the sulphites not really sure what to do about that. THe malo bacteria would happen well within the aging period for a typical cider. ckville has experienced it first hand - geranium smell t the cider.
 
I have read those, my question is more specific. I asked how woodchuck is doing it, because the original is a highly carbonated, sweet hard apple cider. I do not want to make it still, and I don't always have time to monitor the bottles on a daily basis before pasteurizing. I doubt that WC is doing it that way.

I would guess that they keg and force carb it, and bottle from there but I'm looking for the actual answer and not my guess. SWMBO is picky about alcohol and loves WC, so this all interests me greatly.
 
I have read those, my question is more specific. I asked how woodchuck is doing it, because the original is a highly carbonated, sweet hard apple cider. I do not want to make it still, and I don't always have time to monitor the bottles on a daily basis before pasteurizing. I doubt that WC is doing it that way.

I would guess that they keg and force carb it, and bottle from there but I'm looking for the actual answer and not my guess. SWMBO is picky about alcohol and loves WC, so this all interests me greatly.

Not sure what else to tell you on this one that the thread hasn't already answered.

Woodchuck is force carbonated - take look at a bottle of the cider; there isn't any yeast in the bottle's bottom from bottle carbonation. Woodchuck uses sulphites and/or sorbate (can't recall which but read the label on the bottle for ingredients and it is listed)

The techniques described by newell and in this thread get you a woodchuck draft cider (the thread is called woodchuck amber clone). If you don't have a kegging system, then you are stuck bottle pasteurizing to get a woodchuck styled cider. Either way gets you to your carbonation needed for a draft cider.

Hope that helps.
 
>>Woodchuck is force carbonated

thats what i was wondering, guess i missed it. I can keg it, was just curious
 
Kegged this recipe last weekend. Tastes just like Woodchuck.. wifey loved it. Starting another batch tonight.
 
Just out this recipe together but added a little too much sugar for my liking. Is it possible to stop fermentation a little early to get a lower abv?
 
Waking up this old thread, but I am duplicating this recipe with unpasteurized sweet cider and SO4 yeast.

My first cider was made with CHEAP store-bought AJ, honey and SO4. I was expecting a lightly sweet cider but it fermented out to about .995 and, alas, tasted like rocket fuel.

Searching the forums, I read that cider takes on oak really well, so I steam sterilized and threw a handful of oak cubes that I picked up from my LHBS and put it back into the beer fridge. It was pretty safe from sampling because it was a little like a kick in the teeth initially, (tasting was a duty, not a privilege). Anyhow, the oak, (and time, I'm sure), really helped and it was quite drinkable after about 6 months. This was helped by a recent trip to Germany where I discovered that I had actually made a pretty good Apfelwein instead of a bad cider.

Fast forward to today where my current batch is bubbling away rather vigorously, (I am going to need a chilling setup some day, too damn hot in the Sacramento valley). I plan to age my dry Apfelwein/cider on toasted oak spirals. Sooooo....

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the oak aging should take place before or after the cider is back sweetened with the double sweet cider made from freezing, as outlined earlier in the thread?

In general, should aging/conditioning take place at room temperature, or would aging in the keg, in the kegerator, be effective?

Finally, I would describe my desired serving dryness as "barely sweet". I will be force carbing and serving from a kegerator, any thoughts on where my target s.g. should be in that case?

Thanks to all for participating in such a great forum, I've learned a ton.
 
making my second batch of this tonight. Using fresh apple cider instead of concentrate. It is a bit pricey here this year due to the apple crop getting froze out. $7.00 a gallon. First batch turned out well. Every one loved it.
 
wow, the sg of this cider is 1.070. 10% PA may be a little high for a woodchuck clone.
 
stujol said:
wow, the sg of this cider is 1.070. 10% PA may be a little high for a woodchuck clone.

Wow, 1.070 without adding sugar? Thats gonna' be hot.

So what's the plan? Are you going to let it ferment out totally dry and use CidahMasta's method of creating double sweet cider to get to your desired consumption s.g.?

I would think that you have an interesting opportunity to use cville's method of cold crashing the cider at your desired sweetness and not having to backsweeten at all, but you'll have to watch it like a hawk to make sure that the yeast doesn't eat all your sugar before you shut it down.
 
I am going to try to shut it down early. I am going to filter first then cold crash. A mini-jet #3 filter is supposed to get most of the yeast. Stopping EC-1118 tho is like trying to stop a freight train once it gets going good. I rechecked the sg today with another hydrometer and it is still 1.070. I am going back for more of this cider for some apple wine.
 
Philosophically opposed to K-Meta/K-Sorbate?

I'm planning to backsweeten and age with oak spirals, so I really need a good way to stop further fermentation. However, I read a lot about sourness/off flavors, and the wife has several friends who claim sensitivity to sulfites.

Unfortunately, I am lacking the refrigerator space in which to cold crash 4 or 5 gallons of cider.
 
No I will use kmeta and sorbate but I don't think that will stop a active ferment very fast. That will stop yeast reproduction but the yeast that are present will continue to consume sugar and produce alcohol taking the sg below my target of 1.020.
 
OK, so you cold crash to slow/stop fermentation so the KM and sorbate can act more effectively?

Question: I thought sorbate slowed yeast reproduction, but K-Meta actually kills the yeast doesn't it?
 
I don't think it kills wine yeast unless you use it in bigger doses than what I do. Someone with more knowledge can jump in here in enlighten us. It was down to 1.010 last night. I would have swore it was 1.040 in the morning but maybe I misread the hydrometer, I was heading off to work. Seems like a big drop for 12 hours. But I racked it and added the potassium sorbate and metabisulphite. It is chilling in the garage fridge now. The filtering didn't work out to well. Keep plugging up the filters even with a #2 filter
 
Wow 7 a gallon for fresh cider, I guess I have a great cider house at 4 a gallon. On a side note, just pulled my 30g batch with English cider yeast and plan on filtering it on a 2 stage with 50 mic as the first and 5 for the last, then force carb in the keg. Hoping I pulled at the correct number. Shooting for 7%abv with fg at 1.010. SG was high at 1.060. It still tastes sweet, and thank god I have access to a walk-in cooler for the cold crash or would have rocket fuel (which I had before, which turned into vinegar before I could drink it)
 
Just made this tonight. I went with the original recipe on the front page that newell had. I used 4.5 gallons of Sams club brand juice. $14 for 4.5 gallons. I used walmart brand concentrate at $1 per can. Took 3 cans or 36oz to get up to 1.058. I used 4 tsp of yeast nutrient per the instructions on the bottle. Aerated very well with the shaking half jugs method. Looking forward to this. I will update when finished!:mug:
 
Put a batch of this together this weekend as my first try at cider. Followed the recipe just as PilotCline did. I may be speaking too soon, but it was so easy I don't know why I haven't done this sooner.

Does anybody have any experience bottling this from the keg? I was considering trying to bottle after 2 weeks to a month in the keg at 38 degrees F. Would I still risk bottle bombs if they were stored at room temp after bottling. What about stored cold?
 
So I am going to keg this tomorrow. I just don't have it in me tonight. What is the general idea on how many cans of juice concentrate it takes to go from around 1.0 to 1.029? I will pick up some cans tomorrow, I just wanted to know roughly how many to buy. Thanks!
 
A previous post noted 48 oz of concentrate (4 cans) taking the fg from 1.008 to 1.029.

Let us know your results.
 
Alright. It is finished. A few rookie mistakes, and lessons learned. It finished out right at 1.00, giving me 7.47%ABV. I used 6 cans of concentrate and got it up to 1.022. I gave up at that point as I did not have anymore concentrate and did not feel like running to the 24 hour Walmart. I mixed it for quite a while, so I am happy with that gravity. It may not have been completely mixed, so the gravity might be a few points higher, but I mixed for a good 5 minutes and figured that was good enough. The sample is quite delicious! I have it in the keezer now to force carbonate for a few weeks. My biggest mistake was realizing when the keg was close to full that I forgot to put in the Potassium Sorbate. I had pre-measured it out in a small cup, just forgot to add it until the last second. So while the siphon was still going, I dumped it in and tried mixing it quickly with the paddle that I was using earlier. I actually filled up the keg with about 24 ounces worth left in the bucket! That was my other mistake. I started with 4.5 gallons, and ended up adding around .8 gallons of concentrate between the initial sugar bump and tonight's back sweetening. So yeah, didn't do the math out ahead of time, but that is about 5.3 gallons into a "5" gallon keg. I ended up sealing it and shaking the hell out of it trying to mix the sorbate a little more. I hope that is good enough and the keezer temps should help as well. So now I am enjoying my two pint glasses of this stuff uncarbed while I am recalling my nights adventure! Next time, as I am pretty sure there will be a next time, I will start with only 4 gallons at the beginning. It almost seems wasteful to end up with to much, even though I am drinking it right now. Good luck WoodAle, let me know how yours turns out.
 
I made a batch of this and bottled it using the pasteurization method in the cider forum. If I recall, it filled about 54 bottles. I didn't backsweeten quite as much as I should have, but this is really tasty, and everyone who's tried it loves it. I'll definitely be making another batch in the near future.

I think I have this recipe to thank for turning my wife on to the need for a keezer. :rockin:
 
image-3242306248.jpg

Ten gallons of trouble here! It's nice to see more people enjoying this recipe. I made teo batches, so I did one with champagne yeast and one with Montrachet to experiment. I'm thinking of doing a secondary with cinnamon sticks.
 
First of all, thanks to all who post on these boards. The knowledge base is unfriggin believable. I have 5 batches of beer under my belt and I would like to reward SWMBO for her support and patience.

#1 Is there really no boiling this recipe? Hard to believe something that looks so tasty can be this easy.

#2 Fermenting temps. The details on the Red Star are pretty clear 59-86*. I was wondering what the ideal temp is. I would love to do this @ room temp (74*) so i didn't tie up my fermenting chamber.

#3 If i do need to ferment cooler, can I store it in a keg at room temp after 1-2 months of fermenting?

#4 Should I use a starter or is one pack of yeast enough?

Thanks again

---- Doug
 
First of all, thanks to all who post on these boards. The knowledge base is unfriggin believable. I have 5 batches of beer under my belt and I would like to reward SWMBO for her support and patience.

#1 Is there really no boiling this recipe? Hard to believe something that looks so tasty can be this easy.

#2 Fermenting temps. The details on the Red Star are pretty clear 59-86*. I was wondering what the ideal temp is. I would love to do this @ room temp (74*) so i didn't tie up my fermenting chamber.

#3 If i do need to ferment cooler, can I store it in a keg at room temp after 1-2 months of fermenting?

#4 Should I use a starter or is one pack of yeast enough?

Thanks again

---- Doug

1. Nope, no boiling. :)
2. Room temp should be just fine. I did a five gallon batch at around 77 degrees, and it was great.
3. No need. :)
4. No need for a starter. Just pitch a yeast pack on top and let it do it's thing. One pack is enough. I used yeast nutrient, but that's up to you.
 
I'm getting ready to keg my batch. At what PSI and for how long should I force carb? Thanks!

The apples were fresh juiced. I added 1 can of concentrate to 1 gallon of juice for an OG of 1.055. My FG was 1.00 after sitting in secondary for a couple of months. I took 3 cans of concentrate to back sweeten to 1.030.
 
My first batch of this cider was amazing! The two gallons I made went way too fast. I put a new batch in the keg last week to carb and tried it yesterday. This batch is not very good at all. I read that some have to let the batch sit for 6+ months before being drinkable? In an effort to stay away from china apples this last batch was made using Kirkland apple juice and organic cane sugar for priming and back sweetening. I noticed the recipe calls for corn sugar if not using apple juice concentrate. I would love to use concentrate but I have not found one that uses US apples. This current batch had SG 1.068 FG 1.000 then sweetened to 1.028 so its a little hot. Fermentation took about two weeks then it was moved to secondary for a month. My first batch that tasted so good sat in secondary for a few months till it was as clear as apple juice. When kegging my current batch it was still cloudy. I did not use pectic enzyme on this last batch. Any words of encouragement? Thanks!
 
After some searching I think I found the answer to a great cider. I need to use corn sugar to boost ABV, but I need to stop at 1.058 as the recipe calls for. I will use apple juice concentrate to back sweeten and bring the apple flavor back! I believe that Tree Top sells an apple juice concentrate made from 100% U.S. apples. Corn sugar will be cheaper to boost ABV than apple juice concentrate. The more ABV, the less desirable taste for a cider.
 
Just started six gallons of cider using this recipe today. Here is the breakdown of my batch.

OG - 1.058
5-1/2 Gallons of Great Value Apple Juice, fully aerated
1/4 gallon of simple syrup to get to desired OG

Yeast - Red Star Champagne Yeast


Looking forward to adding the other stats as the batch gets done fermenting.
 
I started a 3 gallon batch of this on 10/5. Its fermented down to 1.001 i or so. I did end up putting it into secondary on the 25th. It tasted really good. Like a fruity white wine with apple hints.

1. I plan to back sweet a tiny bit and bottle carb. Can someone explain to me if there is enough yeast anywhere in the liquid for that? Since i racked it off, there is virtually no sediment at the bottom. Will it carb?

2. When planning to bottle carb, is it best to back sweeten and let it sit in the carboy til you know if fermentation starts up again, or just sweeten and bottle immediately?

I have plastics to test for carb once bottled.
 
I started a 3 gallon batch of this on 10/5. Its fermented down to 1.001 i or so. I did end up putting it into secondary on the 25th. It tasted really good. Like a fruity white wine with apple hints.

1. I plan to back sweet a tiny bit and bottle carb. Can someone explain to me if there is enough yeast anywhere in the liquid for that? Since i racked it off, there is virtually no sediment at the bottom. Will it carb?

2. When planning to bottle carb, is it best to back sweeten and let it sit in the carboy til you know if fermentation starts up again, or just sweeten and bottle immediately?

I have plastics to test for carb once bottled.

Did you ever get it bottled? I'm very interested in making this recipe. Did it bottle carb for you?
 
Did you ever get it bottled? I'm very interested in making this recipe. Did it bottle carb for you?

I did! I bottled it on 11/6. It was really good. One of my top 2 ciders so far. I have one 22oz left. I dont know how much like woodchuck it actually tasted, but it did have great flavor and body. I let it carb til 11/11 and then stovetop pasteurized. It was carbed enough for me. I like a little lower carbonation over all, but its got da bubbles :)

Unfortunately i didn't keep enough notes to tell me what i actually did to it for back sweetening and priming. i just wrote the dates down.
 
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