Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

I brewed up 5 gallons of this on Saturday, as per the original recipe. Man, this was fermenting like crazy within 24 hours. Fermenting really hot as well. I am using a swamp cooler so hopefully I will keep it in the 60-70 range, but has anyone noticed any adverse effects from fermenting on the higher end of the range (70-75)?

I used -05 yeast, and it tasted good to me fermenting at 70-72. May have even hit 74, that was before I stuck a thermometer on it (Was my first batch)

Does anyone have a picture of the finished product?

Yes, Graff porn please.

CorporateCrumb said:

Yes, Graff porn please.

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All I gots is a couple of pics from bottling.


According to the rooftop brew page I'm just under 8%, w00t.


Racking off for priming/bottling. FTR the orange buckets are only for transfer/sanitizing. I went to secondary after the airlock stopped going (about 3 days) because it had all sorts of fun stuff on the bottom and a protein ring or whatever that is on top.

EricCSU said:

Does anyone have a picture of the finished product?

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there is a thread called "best cider ever" I posted my final product. Or you could look in my picture gallery

This stuff looks really good and sounds delicious. I'm making 10 gal this weekend in 2 fermenters. One will have an addition of 1 lb dried sour cherries and the other 1 lb clover honey. Hopefully it won't ruin what you've started as a good recipe Brandon

be sure to add your total's here...

we're on pace to catch Apfelwein in a decade or so :rockin:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/how-many-gallons-brandon-os-graff-have-been-made-127767/

wscott823 said:

This stuff looks really good and sounds delicious. I'm making 10 gal this weekend in 2 fermenters. One will have an addition of 1 lb dried sour cherries and the other 1 lb clover honey. Hopefully it won't ruin what you've started as a good recipe Brandon

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Killer, i bet they will be great. Let me know how they turn out.

I just tried a warm bottle after just two days of priming. It's already carbonated! And good!

It is also almost black, because of the dark LME I used. I must say I'm pleasantly surprised and can't wait to try some more after a couple of weeks.

I'm making my first batch tonight. my recipe uses some leftovers,
1 gal water
6 oz 40L
1 oz carapils
2 lbs light dme
.5 oz northern brewer hops
4 gal apple juice
safale s-04

other than the boilover i had in my 2 gal pot (i was also cooking dinner), everything is looking pretty good.

speedie789 said:

I'm making my first batch tonight. my recipe uses some leftovers,
1 gal water
6 oz 40L
1 oz carapils
2 lbs light dme
.5 oz northern brewer hops
4 gal apple juice
safale s-04

other than the boilover i had in my 2 gal pot (i was also cooking dinner), everything is looking pretty good.

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sweet, let me know how that cara pils in there turns out.

Anybody try lager yeast with this?? Maybe california??

"Directions for brewing

Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins."

like an extract batch.

Question.

If I wanted to keep my final gravity a little higher for a sweeter cider, would it make sense to make an all grain wort mashed at around 160 degrees? Or would the effect be negligible?

Im curious to know how Graff has turned out with other flavors added... its been mentioned a handful of times in the two threads but no definitive answer..

Brandon said that other juices might increase the tart flavor in the Graff, and he himself added blueberry to one batch.. but how much of that other flavor comes through?

Has anyone tried a mixture of juices? apple grape? apple strawberry? apple blackberry? what about a hybrid Graff from pear juice alone?

apples have kind of a robust earthly flavor to them, and it sounds as if the crystal 60l and DME really accentuates that... but i wonder if this would pair well with other flavors (ie blackberry which has a deep sweet and tart flavor and strawberry which is more airy and citrusy)

and i know this is a long shot since everyone is raving about it, and probably consumes their entire batch before they know it. but has anyone had this kegged or bottled for several months to see how it ages?

GamePreserve said:

"Directions for brewing

Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins."

like an extract batch.

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Yes, like steeping grains with an extract batch.

CorporateCrumb said:

Question.

If I wanted to keep my final gravity a little higher for a sweeter cider, would it make sense to make an all grain wort mashed at around 160 degrees? Or would the effect be negligible?

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I think what you are saying makes sense, however I would go about hitting my target of a great cider a different way.

I would brew the recipe as is. This cider is perfectly balanced, the balance of sweet and dry is favorable and you should experience that before trying to make it sweeter.

Brew the recipe as is. If you want a bit more residual sweetness I would use 120L instead of 60L. This is what I have done in recent batches for people who are not educated in Homebrewing and they absolutely love it. I am confident this is the best base recipe to please the most amount of people, you simply cannot go wrong with it. Once you have tasted it and know what you are dealing with you will know how to perfect it for your individual tastes. Things like more head, less head, more sweetness, less sweetness, more body, less body, all of those things can easily be adjusted. This is the best recipe to show you a whole new world of non-hooch tasting apple cider.

Using all ingredients available to you in order to produce a great apple flavored beverage in a month instead of a year, get this down and your limits are endless. This is a balance, you can teeter totter any way you like once you learn balance.

Emyrs said:

Im curious to know how Graff has turned out with other flavors added... its been mentioned a handful of times in the two threads but no definitive answer..

Brandon said that other juices might increase the tart flavor in the Graff, and he himself added blueberry to one batch.. but how much of that other flavor comes through?

Has anyone tried a mixture of juices? apple grape? apple strawberry? apple blackberry? what about a hybrid Graff from pear juice alone?

apples have kind of a robust earthly flavor to them, and it sounds as if the crystal 60l and DME really accentuates that... but i wonder if this would pair well with other flavors (ie blackberry which has a deep sweet and tart flavor and strawberry which is more airy and citrusy)

and i know this is a long shot since everyone is raving about it, and probably consumes their entire batch before they know it. but has anyone had this kegged or bottled for several months to see how it ages?

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Graff has a focus on balance. Malt balances the alcohol hotness, specialty grains balance the young hoochness, slight hop aroma and bitterness balance the tart of young fermented apple juice. Torrified wheat, specialty grains, and malt balance the thin tasting alcohol into a burly flavored mans drink which is enjoyable in the summer as a session beer and a great winter warmer just by adjusting the sugars.

Now back to the issue. Apply juice has relatively low acidity compare to things like cranberry, pomegranate cherry, orange, and other juices. I have used Cherry, blueberry, pomegranate, and I notice they all create more of a tart flavor and even vinegar qualities. These flavors can also be balanced but it is going to take much more time.

I have used a gallon of juice of various flavors, subbed for a gallon of AJ. I don't prefer it at all. Fruits come out better in wines or meads. But still my favorite mead is just plain honey mead. I started with all sorts of fruit experiments because they just sound so good on paper. I ended up with a favorite, and it is the base honey wine.

What was the temp of the wort/juice after cooling with AJ when you pitched the yeast? I had around 90F. I didnt want to let it cool to 70 over night before pitching yeast and risk bacteria infection. I know 90F wont hurt the yeast but may yield a slightly different off flavor as it cools to 70 while fermenting. By the way, I added about 12oz honey to the 30 minute boil for more fermentables. Final OG was 1.066

TxT

Hey.... this looks good. I'd like to try it but I'm a noob nerd. I don't know dickabout cider or beer making. The only experience I have is hard lemonade, apfelwein and wine kits. I ordered all the ingredients before looking at the steps a little closer, and realized I've never boiled anything more complicated than KD.

Is this doable for a noob nerd like myself? I do want to start making beer eventually. What the hell is sparging? Do I need some equipment? Could someone explain sparging for dummies, or at least point me to a relevant site? Thanks for help.

NeonBrew said:

Hey.... this looks good. I'd like to try it but I'm a noob nerd. I don't know dickabout cider or beer making. The only experience I have is hard lemonade, apfelwein and wine kits. I ordered all the ingredients before looking at the steps a little closer, and realized I've never boiled anything more complicated than KD.

Is this doable for a noob nerd like myself? I do want to start making beer eventually. What the hell is sparging? Do I need some equipment? Could someone explain sparging for dummies, or at least point me to a relevant site? Thanks for help.

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Sparging is just rinsing with water. You just need a sieve/strainer or a mesh bag. When you steep grains like this, the common practice is to put the grains in a bag, let them hang out in the water for a set period of time, then rinse the bag o' grains with more hot water to get the remaining goodness out. That is all there is to steeping+sparging. This recipe would be a good intro to the beer making process.

Was thinking about an old post someone made about what to do with what's left in his mash tun after he reaches his boil volume. I wonder if you could one last sparge and use that to make some sort of grafflike substance along with whatever beer you're brewing? hrmmmmm....

ChshreCat said:

Was thinking about an old post someone made about what to do with what's left in his mash tun after he reaches his boil volume. I wonder if you could one last sparge and use that to make some sort of grafflike substance along with whatever beer you're brewing? hrmmmmm....

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hmmmmmmm.......I like the way that you think.

Picobrew said:

Sparging is just rinsing with water. You just need a sieve/strainer or a mesh bag. When you steep grains like this, the common practice is to put the grains in a bag, let them hang out in the water for a set period of time, then rinse the bag o' grains with more hot water to get the remaining goodness out. That is all there is to steeping+sparging. This recipe would be a good intro to the beer making process.

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Cool. Thanks Picobrew.

So, for this recipe, just for clarity sake, I put the 60L and wheat in a bag together. Steep in the pot for 30 min....pull up the bag and pour (sparge) the 170 degree water over the bag, chuck it away and carry on? Sorry for the dumb questions, just wanna get it right.

NeonBrew said:

Cool. Thanks Picobrew.

So, for this recipe, just for clarity sake, I put the 60L and wheat in a bag together. Steep in the pot for 30 min....pull up the bag and pour (sparge) the 170 degree water over the bag, chuck it away and carry on? Sorry for the dumb questions, just wanna get it right.

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Spot on. You are ready for an extract recipe+steeping grains after this!

I think I'll do an AG attempt at this tonight. Thanks for the recipe!

Picobrew said:

Spot on. You are ready for an extract recipe+steeping grains after this!

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Oh, awesome. That's pretty much what I did. I did though, afterward, add the 170F water to the rest of it then run it back over the bag a couple of more times because some of the grains had floated out of the bag and I wanted to catch as much of them as possible before throwing it in the fermenter. This is actually a good 3rd or 4rth recipe then, I've made wine, extract only kit, cider (apfelwein), then this. I tried a couple already, and aside from some banana smells it's pretty good. the homebrewing for dummies book suggests that's due to the ale yeast. Will that go away on its own?

mcrandello said:

Oh, awesome. That's pretty much what I did. I did though, afterward, add the 170F water to the rest of it then run it back over the bag a couple of more times because some of the grains had floated out of the bag and I wanted to catch as much of them as possible before throwing it in the fermenter. This is actually a good 3rd or 4rth recipe then, I've made wine, extract only kit, cider (apfelwein), then this. I tried a couple already, and aside from some banana smells it's pretty good. the homebrewing for dummies book suggests that's due to the ale yeast. Will that go away on its own?

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banana smells can easily happen if you ferment too hot. There are lots of tips on this site about how to control that. There are also different yeasts that you could use that would tolerate high heat without banana smells.

Enjoy the graff! Mine has been in bottle 21 days today and I'm about to have a couple when they finish chilling. I modded the recipe a bit by using bavarian hefeweizen yeast (which is known for banana smells).

Picobrew said:

banana smells can easily happen if you ferment too hot. There are lots of tips on this site about how to control that. There are also different yeasts that you could use that would tolerate high heat without banana smells.

Enjoy the graff! Mine has been in bottle 21 days today and I'm about to have a couple when they finish chilling. I modded the recipe a bit by using bavarian hefeweizen yeast (which is known for banana smells).

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Let me know how that turns out. I have noticed the wheat yeasts tend to ferment out drier than notty and s-05. This is why I switched to notty, I liked the graff finishing at 1.008 or around there.

I would love to hear your take on it though.

greencoat said:

I think I'll do an AG attempt at this tonight. Thanks for the recipe!

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Let me know how it turns out. love the feedback.

Brandon O said:

Let me know how that turns out. I have noticed the wheat yeasts tend to ferment out drier than notty and s-05. This is why I switched to notty, I liked the graff finishing at 1.008 or around there.

I would love to hear your take on it though.

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I used Bavarian Wheat 3638 70-76% attenuation. It finished pretty sweet actually. Didn't do gravity readings on this. It's very nice, super fruity, not much banana tho (which is actually good for me). Not very cloudy at all despite using this cloudy yeast. So far I enjoy it, but I like beer better! ha.

Just joined the board (new to home brewing) specifically for this thread. I want to try this with cider as soon as it shows up in my farmers' market. Has anyone tasted a batch of graff made with dark malt extract? I have some leftover and was thinking of using it, but obviously wouldn't be opposed to amber if that tends to give better results.

I made mine with dark or liquid LME (not sure which). It's a lot darker looking than any cider, but I like the taste this far. You can probably skip the crystal malt, if you're using dark extract.

Anybody have any thoughts/experiences with aeration prior to pitching? Good? Bad? Doesn't Matter?

NicholasH said:

Just joined the board (new to home brewing) specifically for this thread. I want to try this with cider as soon as it shows up in my farmers' market. Has anyone tasted a batch of graff made with dark malt extract? I have some leftover and was thinking of using it, but obviously wouldn't be opposed to amber if that tends to give better results.

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I have experimented with mashing chocolate grains, like what you use in stouts. It was okay but I prefer the standard recipe for sure.

millerbp said:

Anybody have any thoughts/experiences with aeration prior to pitching? Good? Bad? Doesn't Matter?

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I don't aerate other than the pouring of the apple juice into the carboy. I personally think that is plenty and can't argue with the results. I have made a point to aerate the graff prior to pitching by shaking the hell out of the carboy. I didn't notice a difference in the final product, i think dumping in the juice does plenty of aeration.

Thanks for the info. I'm pulling the trigger tomorrow morning. It will be a nice change of pace to have a short brew day.

Thanks for the input. I'm thinking I may try an amber ale next, before apples really come into season. I expect to have some amber malt extract leftover from that, so that should work out nicely.

Hey everyone, This is my first post here. I just made the graff as per instruction, the only thing i may have done wrong is the amount of 60L i steeped. i could not remember when i bought it if she gave a 1lb or 1/2 pound???? i think it was a pound so i ended up using a cup and 1/4 of the 60L which was half of what was in the bag. how big of a difference would it make? I used 100% juice not from concentrate. the last difference was the hops. i got willamette 5.8% instead of 6% i pretty sure from the previous post that i should be ok as less is better.
Also is 70-73 degrees gona be ok for fermentation?