Slow start with roeselare

I brewed my first attempt at a Flanders red this weekend. Pitched one pack if wyeast roeselare on Sunday night and nothing doing yet. I've read that this yeast is a slow starter, but its been 72 hours and still nothing. I did not make a starter as per wyeasts suggestion. Beer is at 68*F right now.

Should I give it a few more days or pitch a pack of s05 I have lying around ? Thanks!

Well it started up this morning. Over 80 hours after pitching. I know it was severely underpitched, I guess that just greatly increased the lag time. Ill see how it turns out in 12-18 months!

I read peoples report about it being slow to start but when I used the Roeselare blend in a tart of darkness extract kit, it took off after 12 hrs and caused a massive blow off. I used a blow off tube but I didn't expect such an extreme fermentation. It had pushed the carboy bung half way out of the fermentor. I had to drain the container used to hold the blow off liquid twice.

Hope it turns out well for you. Are you planning on transferring off of the yeast cake onto a secondary?

I had the same experience with roselare. My lambic has been sitting 8 months now and is slightly tart and complex. Be patient good results will follow

I had the same experience with roselare. My lambic has been sitting 8 months now and is slightly tart and complex. Be patient good results will follow

Brewing_on_the_Internet said:

Are you planning on transferring off of the yeast cake onto a secondary?

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I'm still deciding. I think I will probably let it sit for around 4 months or so, then move it and put a second batch on the cake to use for blending at 16-18 months. What do you think?

I'm also conflicted on what to do and looking for advice from someone who has done this before. My beer is only a month old so I can't give any input from experience but that sounds like a good plan to me. I'm thinking of also doing the same. not for blending purposes but to have something sour in the pipeline.

I've read you get a more sour end result if you leave it on the cake.

Can't speak from experience on that, this is my first sour. I've read similar to what you said, and also that the 2/3/etc batch on the cake is more sour than the first.

I found this in a thread about tart of darkness.

Matt Monroe - Vender from Morebeer
"Roeselare will be the only pitch that you make on the Tart of Darkness. The Bruery goes straight into bourbon barrels and pitches Roeselare. I don't believe they rack it out of the barrels until it's ready to bottle, so it's all done in one fermenter. Hope it turns out well for you!"

I'm hoping the ecy will do another release so I can try something new and leave this on the cake for the whole duration.

I have a Roeselare packet with a manufacture date of late March 2013. Being 5mo old, think I should pitch 05 along with it for a 1.067 Brown ale?

Brewing_on_the_Internet said:

I'm also conflicted on what to do and looking for advice from someone who has done this before. My beer is only a month old so I can't give any input from experience but that sounds like a good plan to me.

I've read you get a more sour end result if you leave it on the cake.

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I usually rack mine off as soon as the main fermentation slows down. That way the trub can drop out, but a lot of the yeast gets carried over with the beer.

m00se said:

I have a Roeselare packet with a manufacture date of late March 2013. Being 5mo old, think I should pitch 05 along with it for a 1.067 Brown ale?

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Just pitch the Roeselare, and see what happens for a couple of days. The blend is deliberately low in yeast cells to allow a long lag time. This allows the Lacto and Pedio to multiply before the yeast starts to create alcohol, which slows down their growth. The quicker the start generally means it takes longer to sour (unless of course you are pitching on a cake that already has a ton of Lacto and Pedio.

If after a couple of days you are starting to get worried, then pitch the S-05.

DocScott said:

I'm still deciding. I think I will probably let it sit for around 4 months or so, then move it and put a second batch on the cake to use for blending at 16-18 months. What do you think?

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Pitching on an entire 'yeast cake' is always over pitching. I'm iffy on rinsing yeast from mixed fermentations, so I just save it trub and all and repitch a portion of that.

m00se said:

I have a Roeselare packet with a manufacture date of late March 2013. Being 5mo old, think I should pitch 05 along with it for a 1.067 Brown ale?

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I'd probably try and get another pack of fresh Roselare and pitch both or use a more interesting yeast than 05 that will leave the brett more to work with.

How about WY3787 for the brett to work with?

TNGabe said:

Pitching on an entire 'yeast cake' is always over pitching. I'm iffy on rinsing yeast from mixed fermentations, so I just save it trub and all and repitch a portion of that.



I'd probably try and get another pack of fresh Roselare and pitch both or use a more interesting yeast than 05 that will leave the brett more to work with.

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m00se said:

How about WY3787 for the brett to work with?

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I'd probably go with that if I had it on hand before us-o5, which I have used in a flanders style and wasn't thrilled with. Problem with 3787 is that it's rather explosive and throws mad fusels at the temp you'd want to pitch Roselare at.

T-58?

m00se said:

T-58?

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Same deal. That's what I used last time with ECY02 slurry, started it at 62 and I think the the ECY took off before t-58 at that temp, but I'm not sure about Roselare, I've never used ir.

m00se said:

T-58?

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If I'm not mistaken (going from memory now - and it's not that good), Jolly Pumpkin changed their base yeast from WLP550 to T-58.

Calder said:

If I'm not mistaken (going from memory now - and it's not that good), Jolly Pumpkin changed their base yeast from WLP550 to T-58.

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If you remember the source of that, please share it. I'd heard about a possible bottling strain, but not a switch to t-58. Ron Jeffries talks about having his own version of 550 banked in the two CYBI episodes for JP beers.

TNGabe said:

If you remember the source of that, please share it. I'd heard about a possible bottling strain, but not a switch to t-58. Ron Jeffries talks about having his own version of 550 banked in the two CYBI episodes for JP beers.

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It was somewhere on this forum about 6 months ago. I was very surprised. But there were many posters with the same information. I can't say it is a fact, but everyone was very convincing at the time. It is a while now, but I think they referenced some interview with Ron that was the source of the information.

Hopefully someone with the information will post.

The dry yeast is probably easier to handle, less chance of infection, and cheaper. If it gives the same result ...... then why not.

Calder said:

It was somewhere on this forum about 6 months ago. I was very surprised. But there were many posters with the same information. I can't say it is a fact, but everyone was very convincing at the time. It is a while now, but I think they referenced some interview with Ron that was the source of the information.

Hopefully someone with the information will post.

The dry yeast is probably easier to handle, less chance of infection, and cheaper. If it gives the same result ...... then why not.

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https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/jolly-pumpkin-dregs-382275/This is all I see searching. T-58 is wlp 500 as far is I know, pretty different from 550.

I just transferred my now fermented Flanders. It's got some fusels for sure (I can smell them). I know this is from intentional underpitching and increased ferm temp in my effort to get things started after a 80 hour lag after pitching. Once I started to see fermentation, I dropped the temp and held it at 68 until fermentation stopped last week.

My question is, will the fusels fade out or be consumed by the other bugs in the roeselare pitch over the next year, or should I plan on rebrewing now to save a year of aging something that won't be drinkable?

Just pitched 6 smackpaks of Roeselare into 60 gallons of 1.054 Lambic. 24 hours at 70F liquid temp and not even a HINT of activity. The question is should I dump the conical fermenter's yeast trap which is full of trub or leave it in for the bacteria to possibly feast on?

I wouldn't start worrying until after 96hr

I recently did my first oud bruin, and the roselare I pitched started overnight, in fact it spewed for the first few days. It's a few weeks later now and it is still bubbling slowly. I didnt make a starter just pitched.

Hell - I'm just hoping that 2 blow off tubes are ENOUGH for 60 gallons in a conical once it gets going. Fermcap S will become my friend in a day or two...

FredTheNuke said:

Hell - I'm just hoping that 2 blow off tubes are ENOUGH for 60 gallons in a conical once it gets going. Fermcap S will become my friend in a day or two...

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Well you did underpitch by 10 packs or so...

TNGabe said:

Well you did underpitch by 10 packs or so...

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It's like being dropped into a world full of man starved hot chicks! Ohhh the wonderful things that could happen!!!

Pitched roselare straight out of the wyeast smack pack into a wort of 1.052 and I'm used to 2L starters that start usually within 2 hours and still no sign of activity. What is the most amount of time I should wait before taking action?

I am at 72 hours and if with 2 blow off tubes if I inhale from one I get a solid smack of CO2 gas - so the engine must be functional just not yet running....

Mine took about 80 hours to get rolling. Be patient and keep your temp under control.

I forgot about my sour...been in the closet since August. Maybe I should sample it this weekend. It's still got another 8months before I really think about calling it done.

Mine kicked off after about 48 hours I ferment at 68* I need to build a chamber bad but just haven't gotten around to it. After it started it took off better than most my fermentations.

Holy Chit! My 60 gallon rocket has sprung to life... Now I am scared - will 2 air locks be enough to keep the pressure in check...

rorypayne said:

I'm used to 2L starters that start usually within 2 hours

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slighty OT: fermentation taking off after just 2 hours probably means you over-pitched. you barely got a lag phase, so you got few of the yeast flavors produced during that time. this is fine for beers where you don't want yeast flavors, but for ones that you do want them (belgians, some english, etc) you might want to pitch a little less.

sweetcell said:

slighty OT: fermentation taking off after just 2 hours probably means you over-pitched. you barely got a lag phase, so you got few of the yeast flavors produced during that time. this is fine for beers where you don't want yeast flavors, but for ones that you do want them (belgians, some english, etc) you might want to pitch a little less.

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Flavor production doesn't occur during the lag phase, but rather during the exponential growth phase that follows.

Would doing a starter with the roeselaire be helpful, or does everyone just pitch straight in? I seem to remember something about doing a starter with a mix throws off the balance.

I'm looking at getting a few different Wyyeast and white labs sour strains and starting beers while I'm off work.

brewguyver said:

Would doing a starter with the roeselaire be helpful, or does everyone just pitch straight in? I seem to remember something about doing a starter with a mix throws off the balance.

I'm looking at getting a few different Wyyeast and white labs sour strains and starting beers while I'm off work.

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I wouldn't bother with the white labs stuff. I've got several beers going with WLP665 and they were all disspointing until I started adding bottle dregs to them.

From nothing to this amount of blowoff overnight (the bowl was empty last night). And it is just ramping up......

FredTheNuke said:

From nothing to this amount of blowoff overnight (the bowl was empty last night). And it is just ramping up......

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Headspace question, is that line the 60 gallon mark?

Yes that is the 60 gallon mark - so there is very minimal head space. I just added some Fermcap-S and cleaned up the blow off tubing and bowl. No foam at all now - just good ole CO2 pumping out like crazy. The headspace will be completely CO2 as the pellicle forms (and there is room for the pellicle to form). So far so good!

Now should the replicating yeast cause the volume to increase to 61 gallons I will close the yeast trap valve and dump the trap (volume is 4700ml exactly). I can purge the trap with CO2 to be extra careful if fermentation has slowed by then.

Are you planning on leaving it in that plastic thing for aging?