Brown Ale Water Profile?

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briggssteel

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Hey guys. I was wondering if anyone has a tried and true water profile for a brown ale. I'm going to start building my water from RO water since I can't use the softened water. I was playing with a calculator earlier and settled on adding I think .5 tsp of baking soda, 1 tsp calcium chloride, .5 tsp gypsum, .25 tsp Epsom salts. tIIs should give me calcium=67, mag=5, sulfates=74, chloride=79, sodium=30, total alkalinity=62.

My recipe is 5.5 gallons

10lbs 2 row
.75lbs crystal 60
.5lbs victory
.5lbs carapils
6oz American chocolate malt

Mash in with a ratio of 1.5 at 154 for an hour

I want to hit around 5.3 to 5.4 PH. Do my carbonates seem high enough for that? Like I said if anyone has a great water profile for something like this I'd be open to trying it.
 
Depends. What kind of Brown Ale are you brewing? I like pretty aggressive hopping in my American Browns, so I tend to err on the side of a profile closer to something suited for pale ales/IPAs. What I've used for my last ones is roughly:

Ca: 125
Mg: 20
Na: 50
SO4: 275
Cl: 50
HCO3: 150

SRM is about 23. If you aren't too big on hops in your Brown Ales, you could easily just drop the SO4 way down.
 
I think you should be fine with:

Ca: 60-120
Mg: 10-15
Na: 10-20
SO4: 75-150
Cl: 40-65
HCO3: 30-60

It's safe and not exactly going overboard in any area. I've hopped a lot of IPAs with a somewhat similar range (even the sulfate) and they always come out nice and hoppy, smoothly but highly bittered and comparable to the great commercial examples. You could even go a bit lower in the SO4 and Cl areas for a brown ale.
 
Depends. What kind of Brown Ale are you brewing? I like pretty aggressive hopping in my American Browns, so I tend to err on the side of a profile closer to something suited for pale ales/IPAs. What I've used for my last ones is roughly:

Ca: 125
Mg: 20
Na: 50
SO4: 275
Cl: 50
HCO3: 150

SRM is about 23. If you aren't too big on hops in your Brown Ales, you could easily just drop the SO4 way down.

That's very similar to Tasty McDole's water used for Janet's Brown.
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=&t=25260

If the brown is English, I bet it would be a safe water plan to use just CaCl2 with (50-75 ppm) chloride and maybe 30ish ppm sulfate from CaSO4. I'd skip the sulfate.

I'd also skip Baking Soda and Epsom Salt no matter what and just focus on Ca, Cl & SO4.
 
Depends. What kind of Brown Ale are you brewing? I like pretty aggressive hopping in my American Browns, so I tend to err on the side of a profile closer to something suited for pale ales/IPAs. What I've used for my last ones is roughly:

Ca: 125
Mg: 20
Na: 50
SO4: 275
Cl: 50
HCO3: 150

SRM is about 23. If you aren't too big on hops in your Brown Ales, you could easily just drop the SO4 way down.

I am doing an American brown. I'm mostly going for flavor and aroma from the hops though as opposed to a ton of bittering. I'm only going for 35 IBU's on it so I was going for more of a balance between the sulfates and chlorides.
 
Deleting any alkalinity producing mineral additions will still allow a brewer to make beer with RO water, it just won't be good beer. A brown ale grist is definitely acidic enough to REQUIRE some alkalinity in order to avoid having the mash pH drop too low. Keeping the pH in the proper range smooths brown and black beer flavor. If the pH isn't controlled, those beers end up sharp and tart.

I don't really like baking soda as an alkalinity supplier, but its more reliable than chalk. The best alternative is pickling lime. Baking soda is OK as long as the sodium content is kept low.

Unless the OP's brown ale is going to be a hop forward or aggressively bittered beer, I would not bother with the epsom salts either.
 
Using a portion of your tap water for your mash only is a good way to keep the mash pH from going too low, as long as your tap water has high alkalinity.

I've got browns mashed with 100% RO that measured 5.45 and 5.48 pH at room temperature (after 15 min) and no base added. These could have been in the 5.5 pH range at room temperature if 25% tap water was used.

Other than just getting into the acceptable pH range, I've tried to tailor ligher beers to the lower range of mash pH and darker beer to the higher range. A good solution would be to measure pH with a calibrated & accurate meter and have slaked lime on-hand.
 
Deleting any alkalinity producing mineral additions will still allow a brewer to make beer with RO water, it just won't be good beer. A brown ale grist is definitely acidic enough to REQUIRE some alkalinity in order to avoid having the mash pH drop too low. Keeping the pH in the proper range smooths brown and black beer flavor. If the pH isn't controlled, those beers end up sharp and tart.

I don't really like baking soda as an alkalinity supplier, but its more reliable than chalk. The best alternative is pickling lime. Baking soda is OK as long as the sodium content is kept low.

Unless the OP's brown ale is going to be a hop forward or aggressively bittered beer, I would not bother with the epsom salts either.

Right. I did know some alkalinity was necessary after my last stout I did. The water had 40 ppm of total alkalinity. I came in at 5.1, added a half teaspoon of chalk and nothing. This is why this time I'm using baking soda instead of chalk and why I'm adjusting my water to 62 ppm total alkalinity. Do you think I'd need to be any higher? It says I'll be adding 30 ppm of sodium which from what I've heard so far is totally acceptable.

As for the epsom salts, I thought magnesium was important for yeast health? Do you mean epsom salts would better suit a bitter aggressive beer because of the sulfates that come along with it? If so I've taken those into account by balancing my sulfates with chlorides.
 
5.1 pH at mash temperature = about 5.4 pH at room temperature. Very similar pH results to a popular mash pH calculator for your grain bill & 100% RO. What pH meter, 2 point calibration with fresh buffers?
 
5.1 pH at mash temperature = about 5.4 pH at room temperature. Very similar pH results to a popular mash pH calculator for your grain bill & 100% RO. What pH meter, 2 point calibration with fresh buffers?

Yea it's a Milwaukee 55 or something like that and it's maybe 2.5 months old. Yea 2 point calibration with 4.0 and 7.0 buffer packs that I only open right before I use it. I Also keep the meter sitting in a pack of 4.0 solution to keep it working well.
 
My understanding is that you get plenty of Mg in your grain. You're just adding Mg that you don't need, and sulfate that you may not want, and then end up "chasing" in the ratio.
 
Right. I did know some alkalinity was necessary after my last stout I did. The water had 40 ppm of total alkalinity. I came in at 5.1, added a half teaspoon of chalk and nothing. This is why this time I'm using baking soda instead of chalk and why I'm adjusting my water to 62 ppm total alkalinity. Do you think I'd need to be any higher? It says I'll be adding 30 ppm of sodium which from what I've heard so far is totally acceptable.

As for the epsom salts, I thought magnesium was important for yeast health? Do you mean epsom salts would better suit a bitter aggressive beer because of the sulfates that come along with it? If so I've taken those into account by balancing my sulfates with chlorides.

The Mg supplies its own bitterness or tartness perception, beyond what the sulfate provides. If the beer has a bitter focus, then adding the Mg can be a good idea. As mentioned by others, malt provides enough Mg to the wort for yeast health, so additional should not be necessary unless desired for taste.

The pH response with the use of chalk is typical of many user reports I've been given. It just doesn't work effectively. To anyone brewing with RO water or low alkalinity tap water, get a pound of pickling lime and learn to use that. A pound should last a typical homebrewer a really long time since you don't use much. If you have homebrewing buddies, split the pound with them. Be sure to keep the lime in a tightly sealed container since it will eventually revert to chalk if moist air gets to it.

If that 5.1 reading was at room temperature, it was a little too low and confirms the need for alkalinity.

The 30 ppm Na should be OK. I like a touch in my beers. But it would be OK to not have it in there at all.
 
The Mg supplies its own bitterness or tartness perception, beyond what the sulfate provides. If the beer has a bitter focus, then adding the Mg can be a good idea. As mentioned by others, malt provides enough Mg to the wort for yeast health, so additional should not be necessary unless desired for taste.

The pH response with the use of chalk is typical of many user reports I've been given. It just doesn't work effectively. To anyone brewing with RO water or low alkalinity tap water, get a pound of pickling lime and learn to use that. A pound should last a typical homebrewer a really long time since you don't use much. If you have homebrewing buddies, split the pound with them. Be sure to keep the lime in a tightly sealed container since it will eventually revert to chalk if moist air gets to it.

If that 5.1 reading was at room temperature, it was a little too low and confirms the need for alkalinity.

The 30 ppm Na should be OK. I like a touch in my beers. But it would be OK to not have it in there at all.

Didn't know that about adding Magnesium. I'll forget about that then and adjust accordingly. I will also look into pickling lime. I hit 5.1 at mash temp, not room temp.
 
Be kind to your probe, don't stick it in a hot hole! ;)

Cool down the wort and the probe will last longer.

Whoops! Didn't know that. Well I've only done a couple of batches doing that. Kind of wish I would have gotten colorphast strips now. They seem simpler and I wouldn't have to worry about them crapping out eventually.

Was the other poster accurate in saying 5.1 mash temp is 5.4 room temp? So it's always .3 higher at room temp?
 
Didn't know that about adding Magnesium. I'll forget about that then and adjust accordingly. I will also look into pickling lime. I hit 5.1 at mash temp, not room temp.

5.1 now at mash temperature for a stout in 100% RO water makes a lot of sense and indicates a well calibrated meter.

If you don't want to react to your mash pH you can run a quick test while heating the mash water. Determine the % of your grains (individual grain/total grain in the beer) and measure that out so you have a total grain bill that adds up to 100 grams. Determine your mash thickness (about 300 mL (grams) of your brewing water) and heat that up in the microwave to 160F in a mason jar. Crush the 100 grams of grain in a electric blade-style coffee grinder to a fine dust and mash for 15 min. Cool a sample, check the pH and make adjustments to acid/base before your actual mash. You'll get pH information before your mash tun is heated.

(I skip the water bath now shown in the pic and often take the oppertunity to test mash something else and use a calibrated meter for research & planning)

Test Mash_Pic 2.jpg
 
5.1 now at mash temperature for a stout in 100% RO water makes a lot of sense and indicates a well calibrated meter.

If you don't want to react to your mash pH you can run a quick test while heating the mash water. Determine the % of your grains (individual grain/total grain in the beer) and measure that out so you have a total grain bill that adds up to 100 grams. Determine your mash thickness (about 300 mL (grams) of your brewing water) and heat that up in the microwave to 160F in a mason jar. Crush the 100 grams of grain in a electric blade-style coffee grinder to a fine dust and mash for 15 min. Cool a sample, check the pH and make adjustments to acid/base before your actual mash. You'll get pH information before your mash tun is heated.

(I skip the water bath now shown in the pic and often take the oppertunity to test mash something else and use a calibrated meter for research & planning)

View attachment 72076

No the stout was brewed at a friend's house with his tap water. The tap water has about 40ppm of total alkalinity as said by the water report. I'm starting to brew in a new location and will have to start brewing with RO water since the water is softened.
 
The 0.3 unit offset between mash pH at room and mash temperature is about right. There are resources quoting offsets between 0.25 and 0.35 units.

Colorphast strips seem to be the most accurate strips for brewing, but can still be fooled. A calibrated meter is always better. Paper strips are a waste of time.
 

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