My Cooper's Real Ale

I have one kit of this left, I bought two planning on a 10 gallon batch but decided to split them up since it was my first time.

Any suggestions on how I can add to this recipe, something tried and tested? I plan on using DME pale extract but how much should I use inplace of dextrose?

This is a pre hopped liquird malt extract but I added some hops last time for fun. LOL Should I bother adding hops again this time?

Now what about grains and yest. For my first batch I used the packet of yeast it came with. Should I try another yeast? And will this beer improve if I use some grains?

Other then that who has made coopers real ale and how did it turn out?

I've never brewed any Cooper's kit before, but:

1. You could swap DME for sugar pound for pound. Table sugar produces a little more gravity, but I wouldn't sweat that. You could also use some of both sugar and DME...sugar isn't bad in small doses.

2. If I were to add hops, I'd add them late. 15 minutes, 5, knockout....maybe dry hop. It depends on what you want.

3. This is a no boil kit? I think you could steep (or even mash) some grains in the water you use before mixing. All kinds of choices, but I'd keep the amount low if youre using Crystal.

4. I'm guessing that uses Cooper's ale yeast, which I personally kind of like. I have no idea how fresh the packet is.

You hav a ton of options on how to 'hack' this. How much money do you want to spend? My personal priorities would be (1) DME instead of sugar, (2a) some flavor/aroma hops late or (2b) try another dry yeast, such as S-04.

Here are some hacks:

http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirleslie/AleRecipes/AleRecipes.html

Unfortunately the cooper hb kits don't use the coopers ale yeast. If you want that yeast, you need to reculture from a bottle (they bottle condition and use the same strain for all their ale range both in primary and conditioning).

If swapping straight DME you need about 25% more to hit similar gravity but I am in the camp that reckons a touch of dex is a good thing in an extract or kit brew.

I won't suggest a recipe for the kit as I've not used it but if you want to keep it roughly in style use fuggles, williamette, target or east kent Goldings. Other reviews have suggested it has a reasonable amount of bitterness. Crystal grain probably wouldn't be out of place or you could use it as a base to build up a darker ale or even a stout in which case some choc, black or roast barley wouldn't go astray.

Really there's quite a few things you could do with it. Do you use liquid yeasts or do you prefer dry?

Manticle,

You mean they don't use the Cooper's yeast that their brewery uses, right? The Cooper's dry I can buy here in the US...that's what's in the kits, but not in the beer (Cooper's Sparkling, etc.)?

I think I will just use DME with some dextrose. I won't boil for as long, last time 40-50 mins, and if i add hops it will be late.

McGarnigle said:

Manticle,

You mean they don't use the Cooper's yeast that their brewery uses, right? The Cooper's dry I can buy here in the US...that's what's in the kits, but not in the beer (Cooper's Sparkling, etc.)?

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Yes. The stuff that comes with most of their kit range is specifically designed to accomodate a wider temperature range. It differs from the strain they use in the brewery. However the yeast in the bottom of the commercial stuff is viable and is the same strain used in bottle conditioning as is used in primary ferment so if you have a steady supply of coopers you have a steady supply of their yeast.

I've not seen the kit/dried yeast sold separately over here but I would assume that's the case. From personal experience the brewery themselves are very supportive of homebrewing and will answer most questions via email so you can always check via the website.

You can make a reasonable imitation of Coopers Sparkling by adding another can of light pale liquid malt extract or use bulk liquid extract if your homebrew shop has it. With 2 minutes left in the boil add an oz of Amarillo hops. Use SafAle-05. Hydrate it first. Best fermented in the low 60s. Ferment to 1.010 to 1.014. Three weeks in the fermenter if your hydrometer is broken. Add 3/4 cup of dextrose in 2 cups of hot water for carbonation. Wait three weeks to drink.

I'd just throw in 500 grams of DME and do a 17 liter batch or buy a kilo and do 22 liters. Boil the DME for minute and then add it with the kit. If the yeast is decent roll with that, just keep it at or under 20 degrees.

I feel by the time you start adding other ingredients you would have been better of just starting with plain extract.

How does coopers real ale taste, jsut on its own, no DME jus dex

b33risGOOD said:

How does coopers real ale taste, jsut on its own, no DME jus dex

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Are you asking about using it with the kilo of sugar? I'd have to say it would taste like grandpa's homebrew. You'd be making a beer that has over 40% sugar, what would you expect it to taste like? There's not a commercial beer out there that does that. Hmm, could it legally still be called beer with such a small amount of malt?

From what I have heard it wont be sweet, unless the guy who sold it to me lied. Which i dont think he would have.

Manufactures have two objectives in marketing their canned kits, making the price appealing and the process easy. Sugar cuts the price and fermenting at higher temperatures speeds the process. Unfortunately this results in the cidery, thin and solventy flavors your hear about in grandpa's old homebrew.

My understanding is that these kits are popular in Canada because the price of beer is so high and it's hard to obtain proper ingredients. I can understand that but I think you'll get a little more respect as a homebrewer if you avoid the prohibition methods.

You've got a couple popular canned kit brewers in Canada that mistake their lack of respect from people on forums like this one because they brew from a canned kit. I don't see that being the case, it's the method they chose to brew with that kit.

If that's your fancy that's cool and there's a lot of people happy brewing that way.

well to set the record straight, I went in there planning to use DME, but the guy only had dark and amber DME. I wanted pale, and the guy told me i was better of using dextrose then amber or dark if i wanted a beer that wasnt sweet.

Because I was unsure, I bought two kits and only made one using the dex, my next kit will use DME and whatever else i want to try lol.

oh well, live and learn.

PT Ray said:

Manufactures have two objectives in marketing their canned kits, making the price appealing and the process easy. Sugar cuts the price and fermenting at higher temperatures speeds the process. Unfortunately this results in the cidery, thin and solventy flavors your hear about in grandpa's old homebrew.

My understanding is that these kits are popular in Canada because the price of beer is so high and it's hard to obtain proper ingredients. I can understand that but I think you'll get a little more respect as a homebrewer if you avoid the prohibition methods.

You've got a couple popular canned kit brewers in Canada that mistake their lack of respect from people on forums like this one because they brew from a canned kit. I don't see that being the case, it's the method they chose to brew with that kit.

If that's your fancy that's cool and there's a lot of people happy brewing that way.

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Sugar is used by many commercial producers of very fine brews (including most trappists and abbey beers) and is not solely responsible for cidery flavours. If used judiciously in the right brew it can actually be a great thing. Before damning sugar for bad homebrew it pays to look at how it's used, coupled with fermentation processes (specifically temp). Cidery/green apple comes from stressed yeast which may occur for a number of reasons (throwing loads of plain sugar at it willy nilly may be one).

I know you mentioned temperature too and I'm sure you're aware of all the above but specifying the ins and outs helps people learn. The number of new learning brewers who think sugar = bad and all brews should be made with as much malt extract as they can throw at it makes it an important point. How many first time (and even multi-time) extract brewers fail to see a brew drop below 1020 and make overly sweet, cloying malt cordial?

b33risGOOD said:

well to set the record straight, I went in there planning to use DME, but the guy only had dark and amber DME. I wanted pale, and the guy told me i was better of using dextrose then amber or dark if i wanted a beer that wasnt sweet.

Because I was unsure, I bought two kits and only made one using the dex, my next kit will use DME and whatever else i want to try lol.

oh well, live and learn.

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I don't see how the colour of the extract would effect the sweetness of the end product. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the brew shop owner has no clue, along with 99% of the rest of them, here in Canada anyways.

I would have gone ahead and used the amber, since you are making a darker brew anyways.

PT Ray said:

Manufactures have two objectives in marketing their canned kits, making the price appealing and the process easy. Sugar cuts the price and fermenting at higher temperatures speeds the process. Unfortunately this results in the cidery, thin and solventy flavors your hear about in grandpa's old homebrew.

My understanding is that these kits are popular in Canada because the price of beer is so high and it's hard to obtain proper ingredients. I can understand that but I think you'll get a little more respect as a homebrewer if you avoid the prohibition methods.

You've got a couple popular canned kit brewers in Canada that mistake their lack of respect from people on forums like this one because they brew from a canned kit. I don't see that being the case, it's the method they chose to brew with that kit.

If that's your fancy that's cool and there's a lot of people happy brewing that way.

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I quite agree. Living in Canada, and especially on PEI, I have no access what so ever to decent ingredients, or even decent dry yeast for that matter; but it is no excuse for following the instructions with the kit and making crappy beer. I use DME exclusively; when I can, I order a decent dry yeast off Island. I try to keep my ferment temps reasonable (below 20C/68F). I am quite happy with my results. When I followed the instructions, using corn sugar to the extreme, and brewing at inappropriate temperatures, using the kits mystery yeast, I was very unhappy with the results and almost got out of home brewing.

manticle,

No, sugar isn't bad but at 40% it eliminates any chance for a very fine brew. Ferment that at 25+ degrees and you have a base recipe to make a bad brew. Explaining why this is bad is understanding why it's instructed. I don't like to get too far into ins and outs and sound like I'm forcing someone not to do it that way.

Pei,

Love the videos. Something about the simplicity of Canadian homebrewrs I like to watch. No talk about mash tuns, conicals or use of coined words like "biscuity". Or maybe it's just the accent.

The sad thing was this guys website had a great selection listed, when I show up he has only one ALE kit, and one type of DME, which for some reason he talked me out of using hahah, weird because he would have made more money.

Anyways im not going back their again, ill have to travel a bit but I should have a good selection when all is said and done.

So anyways my next brew im going to use the coopers extract liquid since I already have it, purchase some DME and ill also be doing a partial mash with some grains.

What grains would compliment coopers real ale, i have no idea! this is my selection

In stock

Canadian 2 Row

Light German Munich 1lb

Dark German Munich 1lb

Crystal 15* 1lb "Carastan

Crystal 77* 1lb

Crystal 120* 1lb

Crystal 150 1lb

Marris Otter "ENGLISH 2ROW" 1 lb

Pale Wheat Malt 1lb

Dark Wheat Malt 5lb"

CaraAroma Malt 1 LBS

CaraFoam / Carapils Malt 1 LB

CaraAmber Malt 1 LBS

Vienna Malt 1 lbs

Pilsner Malt 5 lbs

Bohemian Pilsner 1 lb

Pearl Malt 1 lb

Pale Ale Malt 5 lb

Caramunich Type1 1lb

Rye Malt 1 lb

Acidulated Malt 1lb

Golden Promise Malt 1lb

Honestly, I'd go back to the first shop and pickup a kilo of the amber DME. Still not really enough malt for a 23 liter batch but 21 should work. If you want to throw in 300-500 grams of sugar with the DME that should make a decent 23 liter batch, just a little drier. Not a bad thing, as previously mentioned 100% extract brews tend to finish a little sweeter.

This is at least how I would approach the kit having not ever used it before. I feel the first time needs to be done with just malt extract (a little sugar is ok) to obtain a point of reference.

PT Ray said:

manticle,

No, sugar isn't bad but at 40% it eliminates any chance for a very fine brew. Ferment that at 25+ degrees and you have a base recipe to make a bad brew. Explaining why this is bad is understanding why it's instructed. I don't like to get too far into ins and outs and sound like I'm forcing someone not to do it that way.

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Understood. Kit instructions are terrible over here and presumably are where you guys are from too. I just see a lot of posts on various forums blaming sugar for acetylaldehyde and crying 'all malt' and thought it worthwhile expanding.

I'm pretty new at homebrewing (batch #5 brewing now) and the Coopers Real Ale is the best thing I've found so far.

I use a can of Coopers
3# Light Hopped DME
1oz Liberty Hops (3aau) at 10min

Let it sit in the bucket for 2 weeks, and bottle condition for 4, and I'd put it up against any specialty beer I can get at my favorite party store.

Phalex

Thanks for the info, appreciate your insight since you have made the coopers before.

Im one of those Canadian canned kit brewers. Ive made about a dozen coopers real ale kits. Usually for those ones I add about half malt extract and half liquid brewing sugar (1.5 to 2 LBS each) usually makes a pretty good brew. Some people say that using just sugar with these kits will cause a cider taste but I have made some cooper draft kits with 3LBS of glucose and it has produced a nice light tasty beer. Im not sure if it has proper balances or proper body but I find it tastes pretty darn good. Alost all the toher canned kits i use a combination of malt extract and sugar - hope that helps!