Sometimes, you gotta' support the LHBS

I've read some horror stories about LHBS on this forum. ("Hops? You didn't throw in hops? Ah! That's fine. Recipe only called for a half pound, anyway. It'll be fiiiiiine.") And I've read a lot of people say to forget your LHBS because you can get all your information online and ingredients online for cheaper.

But in some cases -- maybe even MOST cases -- it's good to support the LHBS.

The guy who owns my LHBS is a young father of multiple kids who started the HBS in the last year or so. He works seven days a week and juggles his responsibilities of a husband and a father. If he does get a day off it's because his sister forces him out the door so he can see what his family looks like in the light of day.

I go there to buy all my ingredients, and random things here and there. He gives me as much help as need, in store or if contacted via Facebook/email/etc. He gives me a deal, typically, but I'm still paying more there than I would online or at Home Depot (for various builds or whatnot). In a way, that sucks. But in another way -- in a bigger, better way -- that's fine, because I'm supporting him and his small business.

I pay more to brew, but that's fine by me.

(Post-script: I understand not everyone has a good homebrew store near them. Or, even, a homebrew store at all. This is more just a message to support LHBS when we can because they're just like us with the same passions. ... And a banana guy for good measure: )

While its nice to support local business, just because someone's working hard, has kids, etc sob stories, ultimately it comes down to quality of the product, customer service, convenience, and cost. Im lucky enough that I have a great LHBS close, but I also have a terrible one by me too. Should I split both evenly just because they're both local? Absolutely not. Dont get me wrong, I love supporting local businesses (and FYI, all of those evil internet dealers are local to some area, employing local fathers etc), but I wont support you just because you're local; there still needs to be the afore mentioned parameters.

I realize I may have come off harsh; that's not at all what I was trying to do. Im just saying, just like every retailer or business in general, ill give it a try, but you have to earn my business

RainyDay said:

While its nice to support local business, just because someone's working hard, has kids, etc sob stories, ultimately it comes down to quality of the product, customer service, convenience, and cost. Im lucky enough that I have a great LHBS close, but I also have a terrible one by me too. Should I split both evenly just because they're both local? Absolutely not. Dont get me wrong, I love supporting local businesses (and FYI, all of those evil internet dealers are local to some area, employing local fathers etc), but I wont support you just because you're local; there still needs to be the afore mentioned parameters.

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Absolutely, and I didn't put that in the original post. Everything at my LHBS, in my opinion, is top notch. Great owner, great store and it has everything I need.

I'm sort of in the same case. I have two LHBS stores somewhat near me, but I'll actually travel a little further to go to the one that's better and fits my needs.

Support local stores, support stores that supply niche groups that you are in.
I don't buy gun stuff from big stores, I buy from gun shops.
While I do buy brewing stuff online, I buy as much as I can from my local brew shop and that local brew shop is over an hour and a half away.
Example of giving them as much business as I can.
I need a grain mill. The brew store doesn't carry them. They are a small business and mills tie up capitol and shelf space that can be used for things that move better.
I looked around on line and got an idea what I wanted, then called the store to see if they could order one.
He is now setting up an account with a supplier to get the one I want. He may keep one on the shelf after this.
I didn't ask how much because it will be in line with other prices. Maybe not the cheapest I can find, but he will be in line with the typical costs AND I'll be helping to keep the hobby going, and keep a fairly local supplier of ingredients going.
It's worth not the little extra time and maybe a little extra money to help a specialty store that I like having around.

Man I just went to my LHBS to buy $40 worth of stuff and ended up spending $86. That place is like a vortex for my wallet...

paulster2626 said:

Man I just went to my LHBS to buy $40 worth of stuff and ended up spending $86. That place is like a vortex for my wallet...

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That's definitely a downside for me, too. :rockin:

RainyDay said:

While its nice to support local business, just because someone's working hard, has kids, etc sob stories, ultimately it comes down to quality of the product, customer service, convenience, and cost. Im lucky enough that I have a great LHBS close, but I also have a terrible one by me too. Should I split both evenly just because they're both local? Absolutely not. Dont get me wrong, I love supporting local businesses (and FYI, all of those evil internet dealers are local to some area, employing local fathers etc), but I wont support you just because you're local; there still needs to be the afore mentioned parameters.

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+1. The LHBS near me is not a very good store. The staff is not very knowledgeable, the gear is more suited towards beginners, and the owner is not very friendly. I realized within 3-4 months of starting to brew that I was more knowledgeable than the staff in the store, and within the same amount of time, I outgrew anything the store could offer me. In addition to all this, they won't even crush your grain for an all grain recipe. They tell you to buy your own mill, but wait, they don't sell mills.

All I'm saying is that it is nice to support a local business if they offer you something the big box stores don't. Instead of going to my LHBS, I drive an hour away to go to Annapolis Homebrew (another local business). They are much more friendly, and knowledgeable. And they brew their own beer in store and put it on tap for customers to try! Beats the pants off of LHBS any day of the week. As far as having a wife and kids to support, lets face it, just because you work 10-12 hour days, 7 days a week doesn't mean you're going to be a bazillionaire.

paulster2626 said:

Man I just went to my LHBS to buy $40 worth of stuff and ended up spending $86. That place is like a vortex for my wallet...

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I am off in a bit to my LHBS for ingredients to brew up. Something tells me this $15 trip is going to cost way more then that. It is not the owners fault for being a good sales person, he leaves me alone while getting my ingredients and I find stuff. For some reason he never trys to talk me out of another air lock or fermenting bucket I don't need This trip I am going to look at a new boil kettle wish me luck.

I tried to bring the girlfriend one time, she was not good at keeping me from getting stuff I don't need either.

I usually do about half and half. Cost is a big factor... as is availability. My LHBS is really excellent, but due to schedule, cost, or product I sometimes can't do it.

My LHBS has a really great selection, but it's sometimes hit or miss on less popular items. It just doesn't make sense for them to stock a weird yeast with a 3 month shelf life... or the hundreds of variations on equipment parts.

I also like to DIY... (prices in this section are made up... and not a reflection on my LHBS I linked to above!!!!!) I'm not going to buy a $200 grain mill from a LHBS that's $175 online when I can make one for less than $50.

The LHBS is very important, but so are the online places that have anything and everything I need. (They don't cater only to people so rural there's no LHBS within 100 miles)!

I agree!!!
I have two HBS near me. One is close to my work, the other is close to home. The one close to work is is a huge on-line retailer. Both are good.

I dropped in to the one by work the other day for a few things. I needed a tiny bit of malt for a mead that called for it. I had done my research and decided on RAHR 2-row, but decided to get their opinion still. I said I needed a base malt that was similar to English malt. He said they had English pale and RAHR 2 row, and asked what kind of beer I was making. <-- look at that, he was knowledgeable AND accomidating. I explained what I was making and decided to get the RAHR.

On top of that he was willing to sell me 1/4 pound only. Then milled it for free ( there's normally a small charge of like 50 cents). While he was milling I picked up the honey, yeast, and thermometer I needed. At check out he waived the charge for the grain all together. That's smart business! He could have tacked $2.50 more on to my total, but instead he earned another sale. Because of his generosity, I'll be making my next purchase from him over my other local store.

Support your LBHS (assuming it's a good store), even if it's anm on-line giant!

If you switch to all grain your LHBS usually becomes much more of a benefit. I've bought a lot of brewing stuff online, but never a sack of grain. The LHBS has better prices on grain than I've been able to find online. And while I'm there picking up a sack of Maris Otter might as well get my yeast, my specialty malts, some campded tablets, etc.

Plus, my new LHBS owner has given me great tips on yeast to use and some ingredients that have improved my beers. That was after he said the liquid yeast I was buying was the same strain as some dry yeast he had that would be a lot cheaper.

I buy from all over the place, but if I'm stopping at the LHBS for a sack of grain I'll always pick up other stuff I need even if I could go home and spend a few dollars less online.

My LHBS is outstanding. The prices are maybe a hair higher than online, but the knowledge I clean off those guys is worth thousands of dollars

The_Canmancan said:

The staff is not very knowledgeable, the gear is more suited towards beginners, and the owner is not very friendly. I realized within 3-4 months of starting to brew that I was more knowledgeable than the staff in the store, and within the same amount of time, I outgrew anything the store could offer me. In addition to all this, they won't even crush your grain for an all grain recipe. They tell you to buy your own mill, but wait, they don't sell mills.

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I agree with you. I shop at the local stores but they have to meet me half way.
The prices can't be way out of line, they have to have the quality I want and they have to have customer service.
If a store isn't worthy of being around ( in your opinion ) then don't support it.
If it's a store you like, give them business over on line or big chain stores even if you pay a little more.
I took pictures of the grain bins in my "local" store so that I can put a few ounces of each in my inventory on Beersmith and know what they have when I decide what to brew. They are over 1 1/2 hours away so I need to know what they have and have a shopping list when I get there.

Soon I will have a grain mill and I'll be able to buy some inventory from them to keep at home!

The only thing i dont get from my local is hops

Let me talk about my other LHBS too.
The first time I went there "I" didn't go. My wife went for me while I was at work. She had an exact list of what to buy, but had no idea what anything on the list actually was. She read the list to the shop owner and he grabbed each item of the shelf as she read it. The real winner was when he rang her up, there was a discrepancy between the price he said and the price I told her she would pay. She mentioned it, he checked their website and said the website was wrong, but would honor the price still. I got five 3 piece airlocks for the price of one! I made sur eto make my next purchase from him to pay back his hospitality.

It's the same store we stopped in to once on the way back from somewhere because I wanted some champaigne yeast for soda making. I grabbed three packs at 99 cents each. My wife and I both looked at weach other to pay once it was rang up. Neither of s had money The total was a bit over $3, and all we had between us was $2.25. I appologized and went to put a pack of yeast back, he said not to worry about it and the $2.25 was close enough.

Great one man store!

I support my LHBS but I get frustrated at his hop selection. I know simcoe and amarillo are hard to come by and expensive but he wont buy anything unless it meets his profit margin. I know he has a business to run but I would go more often if he at least sold his hops at cost. Its not just hops i would buy obviously. Every time i go there Im scrambling on my phone trying to find the best substitute for something or another.

Its also a little awkward because he is a big supporter of our homebrew club. When i brew a beer an he hasnt seen me for a while he'll ask me where i got my supplies from and then I feel guilty.

I'm guessing that the internet homebrew shops got their start as a local business. Good business sense allowed the to grow. Growth can equal economies of scale, which can lead to greater inventory & lower prices for the customer.

I like what Jamil says about local shops: a good local shop can increase the Homebrewers in the community, which can cause the business to grow, etc

After reading some of your posts, I wish I had a good LHBS. Especially since it's only a few miles up the street. But regardless, Malweth! I'd like to know how I can build a mill for $50! What a great addition for a reasonable price. Can you share?

Hop_Hero said:

Its also a little awkward because he is a big supporter of our homebrew club. When i brew a beer an he hasnt seen me for a while he'll ask me where i got my supplies from and then I feel guilty.

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That's pretty tactless... and not really good business.

The_Canmancan said:

But regardless, Malweth! I'd like to know how I can build a mill for $50! What a great addition for a reasonable price. Can you share?

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I haven't made mine, though I have most of the parts I need. I haven't seen any actual plans... most of the DIY on this one is mounting a Corona-type mill. Here's the thread of pictures:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-ugly-junk-corona-mill-station-90849/

Corona/Victoria type mills are around $20-30 online and the rest of the stuff to mount it can easily be under $20 (including two Home Depot style plastic buckets). With a drill it might be a bit more than $50... but there *is* a hand crank (I have a corded drill and Harbor Freight has a cheap one when/if my 20 year-old one dies).

Very nice. Definitely gets the gears turning, pun intended! Thanks Malweth!

Hop_Hero said:

Its also a little awkward because he is a big supporter of our homebrew club. When i brew a beer an he hasnt seen me for a while he'll ask me where i got my supplies from and then I feel guilty.

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Tell him the truth...

You purchased the supplies from somebody else because he doesn't stock what you need.

I agree with malweth that it is bad business to make you feel guilty by asking the question, but maybe if he realizes that he is loosing sales simply because he does not stock something, it will get better.

My "local" HBS (75 miles from my house, but only 15 miles in the wrong direction from my work) is pretty decent all around, but I do not like their hop storage methods at all. Each variety of hops are in a big clear plastic jar in their refrigerator. They're exposed to light and oxygen for who knows how long before you buy them. I buy all my hops online in bulk, but I do try to buy grain and yeast there whenever I can.

malweth said:

That's pretty tactless... and not really good business.

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Yeah, guilting your customers into giving you their business would be a tactic that would make me never want to shop there.

KurtB said:

Tell him the truth...

You purchased the supplies from somebody else because he doesn't stock what you need.

I agree with malweth that it is bad business to make you feel guilty by asking the question, but maybe if he realizes that he is loosing sales simply because he does not stock something, it will get better.

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Lot of truth in that.
My "local" brew shop is a ways from my home but I try to get everything there.
I do order some stuff online because a small shop can't stock everything I may decide I need.
On the other hand, when I decided to buy a grain mill and he didn't stock it, I shopped on line to figure out what I wanted then called to see if he can order one.
Now he said he may keep one on the shelf for the next guy.

I have the great luck of having both Northern Brewer and Midwest as my local stores.

I have the best of both worlds - all the supplies I want AND local. It's pretty sweet. I'm a huge supporter of buying local - the cycle of the money has a huge impact on your community. I've heard the theory that a dollar spend locally recurculates at a rate of about %75 in your community. In other words - every dollar spent at your local store supports $0.75 of spending locally. If some of that is local again - then you can cycle that same dollar many times locally creating jobs and economic activity.

I buy my bulk products...like 2 row malt and munich malt in 25 kg bags from a wholesaler, but i buy specialty grains, yeast, sanitizer, airlocks etc from my local HBS.

Eric

As someone who is always looking to reduce my costs,...I buy bulk online if I can find a better price and shop at my local store for smaller quantity items. They are always pleasant to me and know I get bulk grain somewhere else because I'm always brewing and only buying yeast, a few pounds of grain and hops. They appreciate my business all the same and I refer everyone I know to them if they are interested in he brewing. It's a win win for me and them.

I'm lucky - I have three LHBSs near me and all of them are pretty good. One is small and definitely caters more to the kit brewer and that was where I started (mostly due to the gift certificate I got.) The other two are bigger with better pricing and variety. My go-to place also has wine and beer on tap to sample (including root beer that my son loves.) Could I get better pricing shopping around online? Most of the time, yeah - but those savings would usually be eaten up by shipping. Plus I look at supporting my LHBS from a selfish regard - when I screw up and run out of something (like DME on a day when I need to get my yeast starter going) and I was very grateful that I could run out and grab it so I can still brew this weekend.

Went to a LHBS that is actually 40 miles away on te recommendation of some fellow homebrew club members. Went to pick up some roeselare yeast and some dme an other products. Ended up spending $85.

I noticed the roeselare yeast was dated from February. This was last week so the yeast was over 7 months old. Talked to guy and he said he would knock off a couple of bucks if I wanted it. I said sure!

He rang it up. Yeast was 6.95. I thought that was wrong so I asked him. He said. Yeah I could only do like 50 cents. Sorry. I asked why he didn't tell me that before he swiped my credit card and he just stared at me. I asked what the regular price was and he said it was like 7.50 or so. I said. Oh weird. Thanks I guess

I went online to brew depots website (that's this LHBS) and saw that the regular price for this yeast was 6.95. The guy knew it was my first visit there and lied to my face and knowingly broke my trust.

Yeah I'll stick with the big guys from now on. It's cheaper and they won't lie to me.

I used to have two HBS, one in each neighboring cities - in opposite directions. One was bigger, but he didn't really cater to mead or beer brewers. He made his business selling destilling equipment and wine kits.

He only stored one or two 1 kg bags of base malt and no speciality malt, he kept his dry yeast in room temperature, gave bad advice for mead... his business recently went under. But he was a nice guy.

The other store seems better, they're smaller and store all their grains in the basement so you'd have to ask first to check what they have. First time I visited I did not know what. He also mills for you, I think for free.

He's friendly, gives good advice, carries a lot of equipment, let's you try mills etc before you buy.

But the cost of shipping is cheaper than the trip there, and his selection is still limited and more expensive. So I haven't been there very often.

I kind of want to open my own HBS in the same city where the HBS tanked. There's potential business if you do it right, I think.

Marlowefire said:

Went to a LHBS that is actually 40 miles away on te recommendation of some fellow homebrew club members. Went to pick up some roeselare yeast and some dme an other products. Ended up spending $85.

I noticed the roeselare yeast was dated from February. This was last week so the yeast was over 7 months old. Talked to guy and he said he would knock off a couple of bucks if I wanted it. I said sure!

He rang it up. Yeast was 6.95. I thought that was wrong so I asked him. He said. Yeah I could only do like 50 cents. Sorry. I asked why he didn't tell me that before he swiped my credit card and he just stared at me. I asked what the regular price was and he said it was like 7.50 or so. I said. Oh weird. Thanks I guess

I went online to brew depots website (that's this LHBS) and saw that the regular price for this yeast was 6.95. The guy knew it was my first visit there and lied to my face and knowingly broke my trust.

Yeah I'll stick with the big guys from now on. It's cheaper and they won't lie to me.

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I wouldn't be back there either. Fortunately, I love my LHBS, and we're so close to Wyeast I've been able to pick up a smack pack that was only 3 days old.

I haven't yet ordered anything online, although there may come a day when none of my LHBS's have what I'm looking for, and then I will.

Working in San Jose, I have quite a selection to choose from. I live 100 miles east in the CV, so there is even more to choose from in between.

I do have a clear favorite and I'll tell you why: Best selection, best prices, best quality are no brainers. But these guys really go the extra mile. I've never had the misfortune of coming in when they had someone less than helpful or knowledgable behind the register. Another thing I like, is you can email them your recipe, and they will respond and tell you if they can fill it, or if they would need to make any subs. On top of that, they only charge me for the exact qty of hops I need in grams. They don't make me buy them in one or two ounce pre-measured bags like all the other LHBS I've been to. And, they discount for AHA and BNA. For people who live in the area, they probably already know who I'm talking about.

Now, I still spend a little money on odd parts at the other shops. One of them, if you get the proprietor, will talk with you all day about your beer. He encourages you to bring your beers in for critique. This guy is super knowledgable and has a highly trained pallette.

Your never going to get that ordering online. If you're an advanced brewer and you're in a good club, maybe that's of less value, but for a beginning brewer like myself, it makes a big difference in my beer.

Plus, I've got a chip on my shoulder regarding big business. I tend to support local businesses where I can for that reason. I'm a firm beleiver of you get what you pay for. The lowest price is usually not always the best deal.

I'm so jealous, Hamsterbite. And that's the kind of HBS I'd open, if I ever could.

The LHBS is 10 minutes away, always has good samples to be had. They have a lot of turnaround so I'm fine getting most stuff from them. I'll order my extract (I do partial mashes) from a place that has more selection. Same with certain specialty grains. The guys there are always friendly and one of the owners has one of the finest mustaches in the world.

malweth said:

That's pretty tactless... and not really good business.

<snip>

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I agree... I'd go out of my way to avoid his shop in the future. Then I'd be a smart-*** the next time he asked that question...

Him: Where did you get your ingredients?
Me: *Raises voice* I got them from <insert name of store here>. They're a fantastic brew shop. Great quality, selection and lower prices than your stuff!

Passive aggressive? Sure...

Or...

More than likely I'd just find a new brew club. Still wouldn't spend my money at his store though.

I've got a great shop near me(Weak knee) that is always more than helpful. They have 60 different grains, 30 or more hops(American and UK versions of many), 50 yeasts,and a great staff. The owners are almost always the ones helping you, and will do whatever it takes to help you out.

About the only thing I go online for is parts(ball valves,taps,ect.) the prices are just too much better on line.

There is a decent one in my town, but since they are closed all weekend and before I get home from work, they do not get my business. I have to drive 45 minutes to get to the next closest, but they are great.

edds5p0 said:

There is a decent one in my town, but since they are closed all weekend and before I get home from work, they do not get my business. I have to drive 45 minutes to get to the next closest, but they are great.

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Closed all weekend? Sounds more like they do it as a hobby instead of a business.

mcbaumannerb said:

Closed all weekend? Sounds more like they do it as a hobby instead of a business.

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It is also a bar tending school, so that may have something to do with it.