Any legal issues with labeling my Homebrew with "Company" label?

I'm trying to come up with a name for labeling my homebrews. Is there any risk in calling my homebrew operation something like "Uptown Brewing Company" even though I don't have a registered business or sell my beer?

Just curious to see if this issue has ever come up for anyone?

if you aren't planning to sell it, then call it whatever you want. i don't see how that could become an issue.

Nope

If there's a legal issue with it, then a LOT of folks on this board are in trouble.

If you aren't selling it (which you shouldn't be), and it's for your personal consumption (which it should be), then you are fine.

If you were accused of selling homebrew, the name might be shown as evidence of intent to sell.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

If you were accused of selling homebrew, the name might be shown as evidence of intent to sell.

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Possibly, or the defense could point to the thousands of people on this site who put Company on their labels. The real evidence would be the actual sale of homebrew, not the labels. They would need more than a fancy label to even bring it to trial.

Which is why you never sell your homebrew, even under the table.

On a side note - if you are planning one day to "go pro" -- it might help in est. a copyright/trademark on your company name. I think I remember a small biz trick to help est. copyright by sending yourself mail with your company information.

From a link:
“An old trick to ensure you keep your trademark before you register it is to send yourself a sealed envelope with the idea, logo and concept,” she advises. “Keep the envelope closed with the date stamp unaltered in case you need to fight for your trademark in court one day.”

It's fine. People worry too much about small legal things and homebrew too much. The only time the government really cares is if you're running a somewhat large operation selling quite a bit of beer. I seriously doubt they would care if you sold a case of beer or a keg here and there, unless there were other things involved as well.

ODaniel said:

I seriously doubt they would care if you sold a case of beer or a keg here and there, unless there were other things involved as well.

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Can of worms. Opened.

ODaniel said:

It's fine. People worry too much about small legal things and homebrew too much. The only time the government really cares is if you're running a somewhat large operation selling quite a bit of beer. I seriously doubt they would care if you sold a case of beer or a keg here and there, unless there were other things involved as well.

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Yeah I only rob the occasional bank and the cops don't seem to mind. Good point.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

Yeah I only rob the occasional bank and the cops don't seem to mind. Good point.

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Ever gone over the speed limit in a car? That's illegal too. People don't seem too worried about that.

My point being people worry about small legal issues with homebrew like the government is watching and if they do anything wrong SWAT will rush in and they will be hauled off to jail. However, I guarantee those same people do small illegal things all the time, like going faster than the speed limit for example.

ODaniel said:

Ever gone over the speed limit in a car? That's illegal too. People don't seem too worried about that.

My point being people worry about small legal issues with homebrew like the government is watching and if they do anything wrong SWAT will rush in and they will be hauled off to jail. However, I guarantee those same people do small illegal things all the time, like going faster than the speed limit for example.

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Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on the classification of crimes.

Speeding => local offense, infraction.
Selling homebrew => federal offense, felony.

There is a difference between something being legal and being able to get away with it. I might be able to get away with a major felony. Doesn't make it legal. And, IMHO, We should never discuss breaking the law here. That's not what the forums are for. If it's illegal don't do it. Its not worth taking the risk to your liberty and the hobby as a whole.

With someone so educated on the subject, that seems pretty generalized...

Try going 150mph down the highway. I bet you get more than an infraction.

As for federal offenses = felonies... Marijuana is illegal under federal law, however it is decriminalized in a number of states.

I have not been able to find the penalty for selling beer produced at home - only penalties for actual breweries. If you know what it is, I would love to see it. If they were that concerned about it, you would think it would be pretty clear.

My point still stands. I am not saying selling beer is fine. I am just saying people are paranoid about small legal issues (such as the topic of this thread) regarding homebrew, when they commit small crimes all the time.

ODaniel said:

As for federal offenses = felonies... Marijuana is illegal under federal law, however it is decriminalized in a number of states.

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I did not say federal offenses are equivalent to felonies. I'm saying selling homebrew is both a federal offense AND a felony.

ODaniel said:

I am just saying people are paranoid about small legal issues (such as the topic of this thread) regarding homebrew, when they commit small crimes all the time.

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Again, educate yourself in the legal definition of "crime." Infractions, or petty offenses, such as going 15 MPH over the speed limit, are not considered criminal and are not tried in criminal court. You get busted for selling homebrew, you're not gonna just show up in some civil court and hope the cop doesn't make an appearance.

Your use of symbols and commas made it a little unclear.

I'd love to see documentation that says selling homebrew is a felony. Like I said, I don't know the penalty, but would love to see it since I have not been able to find it.

You can argue with a logical fallacy, but selling homebrew is against the law no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. Discussion of illegal activity is not allowed here, nor do most people tolerate it because it casts our hobby in a poor light.

It's like talking to a bunch of children here. Not once did I say it was legal to sell homebrew in any way, or that it was fine if you do so. All I said is I don't think the government is too concerned about someone selling a few beers here and there and that people are too paranoid about these things.

ODaniel said:

I'd love to see documentation that says selling homebrew is a felony. Like I said, I don't know the penalty, but would love to see it since I have not been able to find it.

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Selling homebrew is excise tax evasion. Tax evasion is a felony.

ODaniel said:

All I said is I don't think the government is too concerned about someone selling a few beers here and there and that people are too paranoid about these things.

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Right, you compared the sale of homebrew to speeding. They're not in the same category of offenses, nor does the government regard them with the same level of interest.

Right, but how many people get caught speeding compared to selling homebrew? There is a homedistillation forum - everything with that is illegal, but you don't see the government tracking them down. While the penalty may be worse, they are not seeking out people for doing these things. That is all I am trying to say.

Basically the Feds want the tax money as mentioned above by discnjh.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes
"Federal Law
The 18th Amendment to the US Constitution, enacting prohibition in 1919, made homebrewing in the USA illegal. The 21st Amendment repealed prohibition in 1933, however, the implementing legislation that went with the repeal of prohibition mistakenly left out the legalization of home beer making (home wine making was legalized at that time).

On October 14, 1978, President Jimmy Carter signed H.R. 1337, which contained an amendment sponsored by Senator Alan Cranston creating an exemption from taxation for beer brewed at home for personal or family use. This exemption went into effect in February 1979." (emph added)

Does speeding carry an up to $1000 fine and up to 1 year in prison?

Because that's what illegal production (i.e. selling) of alcohol does at the federal level (too lazy to look up state and local)...

§ 5674. Penalty for unlawful production or removal of beer said:

(a) Unlawful production
Any person who brews beer or produces beer shall be fined not more than $1,000, or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, unless such beer is brewed or produced in a brewery qualified under subchapter G or such production is exempt from tax under section 5053 (e) (relating to beer for personal or family use).

(b) Unlawful removal
Any brewer or other person who removes or in any way aids in the removal from any brewery of beer without complying with the provisions of this chapter or regulations issued pursuant thereto shall be fined not more than $1,000, or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

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discnjh said:

Selling homebrew is excise tax evasion. Tax evasion is a felony.

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That is what I was guessing they would have to get you for. However, it seems like it would be pretty easy to get out of. If someone buys the ingredients and you brew it, is that really selling and tax evasion?

There are some peeps on here that have named their "Brewing Company," and a REAL brewery with the same name has appeared out the woodworks to ask them to change their name. As long as you aren't actually selling, and have not accidentally used someone's trademarked name, you are good!

Check the US trademark office to be sure:

http://www.uspto.gov/

ODaniel said:

That is what I was guessing they would have to get you for. However, it seems like it would be pretty easy to get out of. If someone buys the ingredients and you brew it, is that really selling and tax evasion?

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If they could prove intent to illegally produce alcohol, then they probably could go after someone....

I have had friends ask me if they can buy homebrews from me and I always say the beer is free but make sure to tell them where they can find the tip jar. You have to claim your tips on your taxes unless you want Big Brother to get you.

There is really nothing wrong with calling your home setup whatever you want. However, I'd do a google search before naming your place...Uptown Brewery exists in Stanton, NE.

I wouldn't want to accidentally represent an actual company should you publicly display your brewery name. I'd want to be unique.

ODaniel said:

That is what I was guessing they would have to get you for. However, it seems like it would be pretty easy to get out of. If someone buys the ingredients and you brew it, is that really selling and tax evasion?

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I'm guessing they would have a lot tougher time proving intent in court with one person buying and another brewing, than they would with someone physically exchanging money for booze. The former is more akin to you making a beer run and your buddy gives you $10 to help pay for it.

Yes, selling homebrew is illegal any way you slice it. I don't do it. I don't have any desire. Nobody is making claims to the contrary. But you all are intentionally missing ODaniel's point.

His claim that the government doesn't care is very much accurate. Yes it IS punishable, bit unless it's a large operation, there's zero motivation for enforcement.

You didn't like his speeding parallel. How about pirating music? It's a felony to illegally download even one unlicensed mp3. More music is illegally downloaded than purchased. But nobody gets arrested with the few exceptions of highly publicized 16 year olds done solely to dissuade others. Why? Everybody in law enforcement has better things to do. Plus, there's no real return on investment (is the expense of arrest, prosecution, and incarceration outweighed by the public good served).

Your point is the academic truth (that most everybody knows) - selling homebrew is illegal. Daniel's point is the practical reality - unless you're running a large speakeasy in your garage, nobody knows, and more importantly, nobody cares.

cimirie said:

Your point is the academic truth (that most everybody knows) - selling homebrew is illegal. Daniel's point is the practical reality - unless you're running a large speakeasy in your garage, nobody knows, and more importantly, nobody cares.

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I think everybody gets his point about the likelihood of getting caught. That wasn't the conversation. The OP asked if there were any problems with how he wanted to name his homebrewing activities. Completely different discussion.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

I think everybody gets his point about the likelihood of getting caught. That wasn't the conversation. The OP asked if there were any problems with how he wanted to name his homebrewing activities. Completely different discussion.

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Rewind the tape and read the direction of the discussion. IffyG, bernerbrau, William_shakes_beer, and ODaniel were all discussing the point of legality vs likelihood. Not saying that this was addressing the OP concern, but it was the overriding topic of most of the posts in this thread.

Get his thread back on track....

This topic has already been answered, and that is no. There are no issues unless you have the intent to sell.

On the secondary topic, I have a question:

Scenario 1: Lets say you and a buddy split the cost of ingredients of a $50 brew and bottle 50 bottles. You each pay $25 and get 25 bottles, price came out to $1 a bottle

Scenario 2: Now lets say you brew the same beer again for $50 and pay that out of your pocket, said friend wants to "buy" 25 bottles off of you, the beer is bottled and carbed and ready to drink.

Are you SELLING said brew in scenario 2 or simply recovering cost since you are not turning a profit?

Let's take it a step farther:

Scenario 3: You brew said beer yet again and pay the entire $50 out of pocket, bottle, carb etc and it's ready to drink. You have 4 friends that each want 10 bottles and want to give you $10 for them. Is this any different than scenario 2?

Pretty gray area here in my opinion. I've been curious about the answer to this for quite some time.

MonkeyWrench said:

\
Scenario 1: Lets say you and a buddy split the cost of ingredients of a $50 brew and bottle 50 bottles. You each pay $25 and get 25 bottles, price came out to $1 a bottle

Scenario 2: Now lets say you brew the same beer again for $50 and pay that out of your pocket, said friend wants to "buy" 25 bottles off of you, the beer is bottled and carbed and ready to drink.

Are you SELLING said brew in scenario 2 or simply recovering cost since you are not turning a profit?

Let's take it a step farther:

Scenario 3: You brew said beer yet again and pay the entire $50 out of pocket, bottle, carb etc and it's ready to drink. You have 4 friends that each want 10 bottles and want to give you $10 for them. Is this any different than scenario 2?

Pretty gray area here in my opinion. I've been curious about the answer to this for quite some time.

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Scenario 2 and 3 would scare me enough to not risk it. I would be afraid that it would be viewed as selling alcohol even if it is is not at a profit. You are still trading alcohol for dollars. In Scenario 1, you are not selling anything but rather splitting the cost. Even though the $'s are the same the timing is very different.

How far could you take Scenario 2 and 3... You could even factor in your time at the current wage you make at your job and argue that is a "labor cost". I don't think most courts would agree with you though and it is just not worth it.

jtlawlor said:

On a side note - if you are planning one day to "go pro" -- it might help in est. a copyright/trademark on your company name. I think I remember a small biz trick to help est. copyright by sending yourself mail with your company information.

From a link:
“An old trick to ensure you keep your trademark before you register it is to send yourself a sealed envelope with the idea, logo and concept,” she advises. “Keep the envelope closed with the date stamp unaltered in case you need to fight for your trademark in court one day.”

Click to expand...

I don't know how it compares to trademark laws, but that doesn't work with copyrights. It's too easy to fake according to the court system.

rjsnau said:

Scenario 2 and 3 would scare me enough to not risk it. I would be afraid that it would be viewed as selling alcohol even if it is is not at a profit. You are still trading alcohol for dollars. In Scenario 1, you are not selling anything but rather splitting the cost. Even though the $'s are the same the timing is very different.

How far could you take Scenario 2 and 3... You could even factor in your time at the current wage you make at your job and argue that is a "labor cost". I don't think most courts would agree with you though and it is just not worth it.

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Really? That scenario scares you? If a friend wanted to give me ten bucks for some of my beer I'd offer it for free, but if he insisted on giving me money I wouldn't hesitate to turn it down. The government is not going to harass me for a tiny deal I made with my friend...let alone how would they even find out?