33 gallons of fermentation space!

UPDATED:
Updates start HERE with the thermowell build.

Thermowell installation and Heat Tape install.


Pressure-Racking Assembly

Pressure-Racking installation and testing.


3-Way Fermentation Temp Controller 1 Chamber

Original Post:
Today I went to my LHBS and picked up (3) 15 gallon malt drums he had been saving for me. I was not sure if all 3 would fit in my 15 cu. ft. chest ferm chamber because I had laid them out with cardboard last week and it looked like they would over lap and be too tight with three drums in there. Well... to my surprise, they all fit in there with no shoving. I plan to pump directly into the sanitized fermentor from my chiller so I will NOT be lifting these drums over the top of the chest. Likewise, I plan to push the beer out with CO2 when racking to kegs. I need to pick up a bung wrench to remove the large bung plugs.

The way I figure it, if I brew 10.5 to 11 gallon batches, I can ferment all in one container. I will have to run blow-off tubes all the time because I don't have head space above the tops of the containers.

Update...
I have figured out how to ferment all three of these at independent temperatures. Also, I have figured out how to monitor temps in each carboy via thermowell. Furthermore, I have put together a system for pushing the beer out of a fermenter with CO2 instead of siphon racking. Good thing too, as the chest freezer is on the ground and siphon would not last very long at all and those 15 gallon carboys would be upwards of 100 pounds!!!

Nice setup!

Huaco said:

I have figured out how to ferment all three of these at independent temperatures.

Click to expand...

How is that, exactly?

I have one STC1000 now, I plan to cannibalize that controller and incorporate it into an 8x8x4 PVC junction box I got today from the electrical supply store. I will have 3 hot/cold switched receptacles in the panel. The coldest fermentation will be controlled with the "master" controller and it will control the chest on and off. The other two controllers will heat the other two malt drum fermentors with reptile heat tape. Each of these drums will have a wrap of Reflectix to keep the heat reflecting into the vessel.
This will all be written up here in this thread once I can document it with pictures...

Huaco, you look like Zack Brown. :0)

C-Rider said:

Huaco, you look like Zack Brown. :0)

Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that a lot...

Updates coming...

Are you planning on putting a bucket or something for your blowoffs in the gap between the drums, or running the tubes outside of the ferm chamber?

Leadgolem said:

Are you planning on putting a bucket or something for your blowoffs in the gap between the drums, or running the tubes outside of the ferm chamber?

Click to expand...

Exactly... a gallon jug will fit down into that spot very well.

Ok so how are you going to rack it into kegs or a bottling bucket. I would think a pump would not be good.

Hmm maybe put a dip tube down in it and use co2 to push it out?

Varmintman said:

Ok so how are you going to rack it into kegs or a bottling bucket. I would think a pump would not be good.

Hmm maybe put a dip tube down in it and use co2 to push it out?

Click to expand...

Bingo! Updates coming... today some time...

Huaco said:

I have one STC1000 now, I plan to cannibalize that controller and incorporate it into an 8x8x4 PVC junction box I got today from the electrical supply store. I will have 3 hot/cold switched receptacles in the panel. The coldest fermentation will be controlled with the "master" controller and it will control the chest on and off. The other two controllers will heat the other two malt drum fermentors with reptile heat tape. Each of these drums will have a wrap of Reflectix to keep the heat reflecting into the vessel.
This will all be written up here in this thread once I can document it with pictures...

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I do, it works perfectly!

EDIT: I use a wine transfer pump to move the beer.

So I wanted to come up with some way to pump directly into my fermentation vessel from my chiller, while not having to lift anything in or out of the chest... The following is how I am doing it. (well, for now anyway...)

I ordered enough 24" long thermowells from www.stainlessbrewing.com to accommodate one for each fermentation vessel. In my case, I have three. They are 1/2" OD x 24" long with a compression cap on the end. Also, I ordered three full bore compression fittings for the thermowell. As well as three 3/4"x1/2" reducing bushings... I drilled out the center depression in the bung cap to 1/2 inch and it was a nice tight fit. Not air tight, but tight enough to stabilize the tubing and not rattle around.


Here you can see I used tape on all the threads to help seal it up and make it air tight. I threaded the bushing into the center of the 2" standard bung cap that came on the malt drum. (quite handy to realize those threads were there.)


I realized that if I had a compression fitting on both ends, my bung cap would be trapped... I set the compression rings aside and opted for the double stacked o-ring setup. Just slide on two o-rings and add the compression fitting and thread down.


Here it is assembled and adjusted to it's lowest profile possible. I don't have but just a few inches clearance above the malt drums and I don't want to build a collar for a ferm chamber, so I am very glad this proved to be low-profile enough to use in the chamber.


Here is the entire bung cap/thermowell setup.

Kind of a useless picture, but here it is being installed in the malt drum carboy.


All buttoned up and tightened down. Side Note: I found out later that using a CHEAP pair of channel locks with no insulation on the handles makes for a PERFECT bung wrench. Stick the ends of the handles in the recesses and turn like a huge screw driver.


As the carboy would be sitting while chilling and pumping directly to it, as well as fermenting.


Here, I purchased 8 feet of 12 inch heat tape from Reptile Basics (4 feet per carboy). I also purchased 2 sets of power cord kits.


Here I wrapped the carboy in a spiral wrap. I plugged the heat tape into the "Heating" side of the STC-1000 controlled receptacle and set my temp. I have 11 gallons of Dusseldorf Altbier in this carboy and it is holding right at my setpoint of 55*F while the glass carboy in the chamber is actually laggering at 38*F right now.

Now... on to the transfer side of this project.

I ordered a Stainless 1/2"ODx36" long racking cane from Stainless Brewing. This is a custom length, so make sure you ask him for a quote on a custom length of 36" to the top of the bend. I wanted to make SURE to reach above the freezer and this is plenty of height to accomplish that. Also, you will need a brass 1/2" Compression X 1/2" MPT fitting from the hardware store. (this will be modified) Also, pick up a 1/2" brass tee, 1/2" x 1/4" reducing bushing, 1/2" close nipple and 3/4" MPT x 1/2" FPT reducing bushing.

Here, I noticed there was a shoulder in the compression fitting because it is not full bore like the Stainless fittings I got from Stainless Brewing. A dremmel with a 1/4" grinding stone makes quick work of the shoulder to allow complete pass-through of the SS Racking Cane.


I assemble the contraption and added a Ball Lock Keg adapter that threads right into the bushing on the side of the Tee. It really is a nice product because it has an integrated O-Ring and all you do is pick up a matching Gas-In Keg Post from you LHBS and thread it on hand tight.


Finished product...


Overall Finished product. Unfortunately the racking cane tip purchased from Stainless Brewing did not fit inside the 3/4" bung opening. I had to remove it.

Now, to the actual transfer...

I installed the Pressure-Racking assembly in the 3/4" bung and slid the Racing cane all the way to the bottom. I marked the cane and moved it up 1 3/4" to make sure to clear the trub/yeast layer on the bottom of the carboy.


Crank down on the compression fitting and lock that elevation in. If I want to use the stacked O-Ring method later I could cut the brass compression collars off and install some O-Rings, but for now I will just stick with the set height for my three malt drum carboys.


Simply hook up a gas line and start pushing the beer out.
IMPORTANT NOTE FOR SAFETY
Do NOT put a control valve or any obstruction down stream of the racking cane... This is pressurizing a vessel that is not "designed" for pressure. I would not feel comfortable applying any more than 4-5 psi to these drums. They may take quite a bit more than that, but I won't risk it. I think it goes without saying... SHUT THE REGULATOR DOWN TO ZERO AND CLOSE ALL GAS VALVES ON THE REGULATOR OR DISTRIBUTION BLOCK PRIOR TO PRESSURE-RACKING.


I put somewhere around 11 gallons of water in this carboy and closed it up to "Proof the Concept". I racked 10 gallons out of the carboy with the regulator set at 4-5 PSI in less than 5 minutes. Yes, I am using a little CO2 gas in the process, but I have 2 bottles and refills on bottles are MUCH cheaper than a wine transfer pump. (which I don't have) Regular 1/2" silicone tubing simply slides over the racking cane. I installed it all the way to the bend to make sure it stayed on. It worked great in this application because there is no pressure. I will be racking into sanitized and purged corny kegs. (not 5 gallon buckets... lol)


Here you see it set up inside the Chest Fermentation Chamber.

Reserved 05

Thanks. There are some great tips in here.

And yup on the Zack Brown comment.

So there is a hole or something in the racking tube that allows the CO2 to go down into the beer and still allows the beer to come up out of the racking cane?

TJTHEBEST said:

So there is a hole or something in the racking tube that allows the CO2 to go down into the beer and still allows the beer to come up out of the racking cane?

Click to expand...

No... The 1/2" tee and fittings all have enough clearance on the I.D. for PLENTY of CO2 to be released inside the carboy for pressurization.

Subbed... Now if only I still worked for that Hazardous Waste company. I had access to more 5, 15, 30, and 55 gallon PTFE drums than any one brewer could handle. Maybe I'll call some of my old coworkers and see if they can "lend" me a couple in the near future.

Hazardous Waste??? Seriously?

I would rather just get them for a few bucks from a LHBS where I KNOW what has been in them and that they are food-safe.

Huaco said:

Hazardous Waste??? Seriously?

I would rather just get them for a few bucks from a LHBS where I KNOW what has been in them and that they are food-safe.

Click to expand...

Nah, I work for a Hazmat company and you can get them clean as a whistle in the good PETE #1.

And back on topic, your setup is awesome! I love the racking cane.

And now you got me thinking. I got 4 30 gallon containers I could use.

Yep... I just plan to run one controller per carboy. Simple as that... Really, if you order from the vendor in NY, they are like $20 a pop and free shipping. I got these in 3 days... That reptile heat tape is CHEAP too. MUCH cheaper than that heat tape marketed to homebrewers! and it only wraps part of the way around a bucket or glass carboy.

Check Uline if you need a cheap bung wrench by the way.

Be weary of the threads inside the bung as well. They don't hold up to much use/abuse at all.

Huaco said:

Hazardous Waste??? Seriously?

I would rather just get them for a few bucks from a LHBS where I KNOW what has been in them and that they are food-safe.

Click to expand...

Reno_eNVy said:

Nah, I work for a Hazmat company and you can get them clean as a whistle in the good PETE #1.

And back on topic, your setup is awesome! I love the racking cane.

Click to expand...

Reno is right. I'll get a couple unused clean ones. My old company buys them in mass orders before they send them out with our labpack chemists to be filled with all manner of nasty bulk liquids. Those were great days when we didn't have to be on a jobsite and we instead got to unload semis filled with barrels and buckets of all sizes and then go home at noon. The other kicker is that I can get some 15 gallon buckets that are more like "ale pails". The lid has a ring-clamp and an airtight seal under the lip. And I can put whatever bulkhead fittings I want into the clean, flat 5 mil thick lid. They'll probably withstand a few PSI of pressure for CO2 racking, but they're a little taller than the 15 gallon bulk barrels that Huaco is using.

FATC1TY said:

Check Uline if you need a cheap bung wrench by the way.

Be weary of the threads inside the bung as well. They don't hold up to much use/abuse at all.

Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly with FATC1TY. However, I'll go one better. Take a look around and make sure to buy a decent sturdy bung wrench if you need one. I know you said you were using the handle of your channel locks to turn those bungs, but if you ever get tired of it a good bung wrench will be your best ally. The aluminum ones are crap and the ones that look like a multitool are hit and miss, but you can't go wrong with the one that looks like a double-headed meat hammer. The meat hammer style wrenches never failed me plus they look badass hanging on your brew wall. I had a meat hammer one when I first started as a labpack chemist and I can to their sturdiness and usability firsthand. However, I quickly lost it at one of our job sites and replaced it with a series of bad ones including a cheap/cheap-looking aluminum one and several different styles of multitool wrenches. Needless to say, I was constantly stripping out bungs and bashing/cutting my hands and fingers on the lip of the barrels when the wrench would inevitably slip, but that never happened with my first meat hammer.

Yeah, I would have offered up something nicer, but depending on how often you use it, the cheap ones might work just fine. You don't need any that won't spark, and made of certain metals, so go with what looks good to use. You'll strip your bungs out if you use anything other than the proper tool and then you will be searching for bungs that work for your set up!

Thanks for the tips guys...
I am not really having to crank these down super tight to get a seal. Plus, I am thinking about lubing the seal and threads with keg lube to make an even better seal. I will probably just pick up a cheap plastic bung wrench somewhere like Tractor Supply or Northern Tool. I may need to modify it to fit around the thermowell fittings...

Can this set up lager a beer at 38 degrees F and have an ale fermenting next to it at 65 degrees or even higher like a saison? I am wondering how the reptile heaters against the plastic would handle the extremes- for instance would the tape become too hot over prolonged exposure and damage the malt bins that are being used as fermentors.

I love this set up and thanks for the great step by step of your process.

Yes, I don't see why it wouldn't work. This functionality is what I had in mind when I put it all together. Right now, I have a glass carboy laggering at 38 and my Dus Alt is in active fermentation being held at about 56 or 57. The heat wrap really doesn't even cycle as much as I thought it would. The tape doesn't get NEAR as hot as I thought it would. I have something like 90 watts using the length (4 ft). Don't think 90 Watts of light bulb heat. There is WAY more surface area on these wraps than a light bulb. You can put your hand on the tape and leave it there for as long as you want. It is more just a gentle heat. I don't have any worries about heating the plastic drum with such a gentle heat.

Say Huaco I am wondering if you have tried to empty them yet with water and what kind of pressure it took. I would think that once you got a siphon going that would take care of it until the levels equaled and then you would have to keep on increasing the pressure until empty.

Yeah, I noted my "Proof of concept" in post #16.
The idea is to be able to rack to a keg with no exposure to Oxygen. If you just got the flow started and shut off the gas, it would soon stop flowing because it is a closed system.

geer537 said:

Can this set up lager a beer at 38 degrees F and have an ale fermenting next to it at 65 degrees or even higher like a saison? I am wondering how the reptile heaters against the plastic would handle the extremes- for instance would the tape become too hot over prolonged exposure and damage the malt bins that are being used as fermentors.

I love this set up and thanks for the great step by step of your process.

Click to expand...

I can't speak for the system being able to hold two beers side by side at such differing temperatures, but I can tell you that those plastic barrels are extremely durable and have very thick sides. As a chemical engineer and a former lab chemist who worked with them time and time again, I can tell you that we would routinely store highly flammable chemicals in them in the back of our truck and it would easily reach temps of 130F and higher during the summer with the sun beating down on the metal roof of the truck's cargo area. Also, my company would store these outdoors in huge rows sometimes double and triple stacked right next to >400F distillation comlumn ducts and piping and we had no problems or leaks beside the occasional worker running a forklift's forks through the sidewall and puncturing them. They are sturdy, strong, heat and cold resistant, food safe, and chemically inert. I'll let Huaco handle the temperature differential question.

So there is no issue with the co2 stirring up the trub? I love this idea... Trying to think of how I can talk the SWMBO into letting me revamp everything again to allow 11 gallon batches lol.

One thing about brewing.... Your always learning!

Roadliner said:

So there is no issue with the co2 stirring up the trub? I love this idea... Trying to think of how I can talk the SWMBO into letting me revamp everything again to allow 11 gallon batches lol.

Click to expand...

Nope... should not be. The gas is being pushed into the carboy by the top bung opening, not the bottom of the racking cane. It pushes into the carboy also pushing down on the beer, creating head pressure and forcing beer out of the racking cane, just like if you had started a siphon.

JoseLima said:

One thing about brewing.... Your always learning!

Click to expand...

Man... ain't that the truth!

Started on my Triple STC-1000 controlled box yesterday evening. The start of something fun. Cramming all this stuff in one junction box...
[caveman hands not good]

What size freezer is that? Have you thought about putting a keezer collar on there to give yourself more headspace for an airlock?