Saison fermentation temp

"Jamil says" () to pitch at 68F and raise temp 2 degrees per day upto about 80F - start cooler to avoid the hot-alcohols.
Ive read some guys pitch at 79F and leave it there.
What temp schedule do you use ?
(Im doing WL565, 1.055, 30IBU - Styrians 90 min mash at 149F)

Not sure on the temps, but I would recommend that you pitch another yeast after it gets down below about 1.025, because it won't dry out. If I had done that, I wouldn't have a cloying, undrinkable saison right now.

@spiffcow

Why is you saison on undrinkable now?

JoeBuch said:

@spiffcow

Why is you saison on undrinkable now?

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It's cloyingly sweet. The WLP565 doesn't properly dry out the beer, though it does give it a nice flavor. Even White Labs recommends a secondary yeast.

Also, I put a few spices in mine.. That didn't help things. It was only my third batch, and I didn't realize I wasn't ready to build my own recipes at the time.

I keep it under 70 for about 2 days, then room temp. My saison is nice (Wyeast 3711). About 7.5%, not hot at all. FG=1.004.

I also used this schedule recently with a belgian strong golden ale, same yeast, 10%, also (strangely) not hot alcohol at all.

I used the Wyeast 3724 (Belgian). I decided to go the way its meant to be made and not add spices and fruits and let the yeast work. I pitched at 74 and left it for 12 hours then put it in the garage and it continued for 14 days at 80-90.......it really is irrelevant how warm, I wouldnt go over 90 however. Came out spicy with citrus tones.......great beer for first run.........finished a little sweet @ 1.018 however still a fan favorite.

spiffcow said:

It's cloyingly sweet. The WLP565 doesn't properly dry out the beer, though it does give it a nice flavor. Even White Labs recommends a secondary yeast.

Also, I put a few spices in mine.. That didn't help things. It was only my third batch, and I didn't realize I wasn't ready to build my own recipes at the time.

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I double-pitched mine with WLP565 and WLP550. I had initially purchased the 565. I got busy during the week leading up to brew day and neglected to make a starter. So I went to my LHBS and the 550 was the only Belgian strain on hand. I decided that 2 mixed Belgian vials would be better than one vial of the pure saison strain.

It worked out nicely. I got a quick start but my gravity kinda stalled at 1.014. I re-hyrdrated a package of S-05 and gave it another 10 days in the upper 70F range. Not sure if the S-05 did the drying, or if it just died in the high alcohol environment and provided enough nutrient to let the Belgian yeasts finish their work.

I bottled at 1.008. I'm going to try to dry out a couple more points the next time I make this recipe because it wasn't quite as crisp, even at 1.008, as I was looking for. But it turned out a mighty tastey beer. My wife the wine snob loves it and will drink nothing else on football game days this year.

Ive got WLP530 - I'll pitch that after a week.
Start at 70F for two days and raise from there.
Thanks all.

Let me preface this with the fact that I know it sounds crazy, but it works...

I've done a lot of batches with 565 because I love the characteristics of it, even though it's a pain in the ass, and I've had the best results by far starting it at 90 degrees and maintaining that until it's done. The saison I'm drinking right now as an example started at 1051 and finished at 1004 in a couple weeks this way, which is pretty consistent with my other batches. The key to this yeast is keeping it REALLY hot. It will produce all the phenols you are looking for in a saison at this temp and no alcohol flavors, anything cooler and it will either take forever or get stuck.

3711 is a much easier yeast to work with for sure, but the characteristic of that yeast is pretty bland compared to 565 IMO.

smellysell said:

Let me preface this with the fact that I know it sounds crazy, but it works...

I've done a lot of batches with 565 because I love the characteristics of it, even though it's a pain in the ass, and I've had the best results by far starting it at 90 degrees and maintaining that until it's done. The saison I'm drinking right now as an example started at 1051 and finished at 1004 in a couple weeks this way, which is pretty consistent with my other batches. The key to this yeast is keeping it REALLY hot. It will produce all the phenols you are looking for in a saison at this temp and no alcohol flavors, anything cooler and it will either take forever or get stuck.

3711 is a much easier yeast to work with for sure, but the characteristic of that yeast is pretty bland compared to 565 IMO.

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+1. 3724 is just a different kind of beast. Starting warmish and warming later doesn't work. I started at 75 and brought it to 90 as it slowed down, but it was too late. This yeast actually does best started hot, 85+, and kept there.

Also, never bottle a high FG 3724 beer. You can either add something else that has the same drying power, such as 3711, or wait. I let mine go 5 weeks at 1.034, and the day after I started a 3711 starter to finish the bastard off, it started again on its own! It came out under 1.010 from this restart a month later. A month delay and then a restart is very common with this yeast.

I just got done kegging a Lawnmower de Saison (extract) from Midwest on Monday after 3 weeks in the primary.
OG 1.060 FG 1.013 78% Attenuation
They recommended WLP 400. I am looking forward to the first taste tomorrow.
The hydrometer taste was interesting.

I brewed a saison about 2 months ago. I used 3724 and pitched around 68-70. I let it sit around there for a few days and then I moved it into my garage where it was in the mid 80's. My OG was 1.065 and after 3.5-4 weeks it finished at 1.003. I used 1/4oz of Sorachi Ace at 20 minutes. I didn't want to go overboard with the hops since it was my first time using it.

The beer finished off very fruity smelling and tasting. I don't get the lemon flavor from the hops so I'll have to add more next time. For how low this beer finished off it isn't dry at all. It's actually kind of sweet tasting, which is surprising and somewhat disappointing.

My first Saison is dry hopping right now and going into the bottle on Wednesday. 3711 wyeast in to the fermenter at 80 in a 85 degree water bath. 1.074 OG down to .0045 a week and a half later (but was prob there after 3-4 days) and at .0035 (9.4%) now at 3 weeks. I upped the temp to 90-92 for the secondary. This thing is super clear, a bit spicy, has no hot alcohol, and should be balanced nicely after the dry hop and a bit in the bottle. If the 3711 produces this much flavor I can only imagine what the 3724 does at 90-95!! One of the members in our club who makes phenomenal Belgians and sours says to just hammer the yeast, but keep the ferment at the same high temp throughout with only a 2-4 degree increase as the ferment slows.

Thanks all.
I pitched at 80F on Saturday. Im going to increase to 85F today.
I left out the coriander and orange peel - I want to see what the yeast can do on its own.

Bru said:

Thanks all.
I pitched at 80F on Saturday. Im going to increase to 85F today.
I left out the coriander and orange peel - I want to see what the yeast can do on its own.

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Good choice IMO. I've never spiced a saison and don't really see the reason to ever need/want to.

Keep us posted

smellysell said:

I've never spiced a saison and don't really see the reason to ever need/want to.

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Come on, man. Live a little. My favorite beer that I make all the time is a saison spiced with ginger, green peppercorn, and hibiscus flower petals. Just made one last weekend, as a matter of fact.

As for the OP, I've made tons of saisons with 3724 and ferment them all at 80 degrees. I've never had a problem reaching my FG. A low mash and a healthy pitching rate will get you all the way down every time.

I got advice on a Golden Cap clone from the brewery and the brewmaster there said to mash very low and ferment very high (90-95). And it could take a long time to ferment completely. If it doesn't get down, try finishing with a second yeast.

The high temps will bring out the fruit and spice.

Austin_ said:

Come on, man. Live a little. My favorite beer that I make all the time is a saison spiced with ginger, green peppercorn, and hibiscus flower petals. Just made one last weekend, as a matter of fact.

As for the OP, I've made tons of saisons with 3724 and ferment them all at 80 degrees. I've never had a problem reaching my FG. A low mash and a healthy pitching rate will get you all the way down every time.

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Haha, different strokes.

I'll try a hibiscus saison or lambic at some point probably, but just not a fan of spices in my beer personally.

I brewed a Saison two weeks ago. Luckily in Houston I didn't really have to do much to keep the temps up - sample tasted really nice. One question though, the ambient temp. throughout the fermentation (in my closet) was about 80F - so I assumed it was really fermenting at 85-90F - was I right to assume?

Also, I hit the target FG, so what's the appropriate amount of time to wait to bottle a Saison? been in the fermenter for 2 weeks

What was your FG ?
Mine was at 1.012 after a week. I thought it would be lower but I'm sure it will drop some more - will check this weekend.
This is my first saison as well but Im going to leave mine for at least four weeks before bottling.

i was actually aiming for 1.013 - got 1.012...didn't want it too dry or too high ABV...will probably give it another week until i bottle...but maybe i'll just give it 4 weeks as well...

DoctorDuvel said:

Also, I hit the target FG, so what's the appropriate amount of time to wait to bottle a Saison? been in the fermenter for 2 weeks

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I let all my saisons sit for a month before kegging/bottling. It will continue to ferment. Those saison yeasts are meant to take the gravity down pretty low.

that's what i'll do then - thanks

So far mines gone like this :
SG : 1.055
1 week : 1.012
2 weeks :1.010

Seems to be following a typical pattern posted by others - drops slowly and needs to be given time.

I found that you need to rouse the yeast as well as ramping up the temp to get it to finish up. Just my $0.02

Another weeks gone by :
SG : 1.055
1 week : 1.012
2 weeks :1.010
3 weeks : 1.004

Lets see what another week brings. I suspect it won't get much lower.

...just brewed a Saison (OG 1.065) this weekend. I pitched a little over a liter starter of 3711@67degF (which is around the ambient temperature in my house). After a couple of days of vigorous krausen, the temperature has climbed to ~76degF just from the activity of the yeast without temp control. No sign of slowing fermentation and temp still climbing naturally.
I'm hoping I get the yeast character I desire by letting the yeast warm naturally. Normally, I would restrict my ales to under 68degF. I guess I'll know in a few weeks how it went.

I havent had too much trouble with WLP565.
My current one fermented at 75-80, went from 1.060 to 1.006 in a week. Not sure if it'll drop much more. Kinda hope not, I like it where it is right now. We'll see. Past ones have done pretty much the same and never finished above 1.008.

Havent done this recipe, its based on Saison Buffoon (Radical Brewing - Randy Mosher) and very much looking forward to drinking it

looks like it's time to dig out the old saison recipe - my last attempt, referenced in this thread, eventually ended up being pretty darn close to the saison dupont...happiness

Doctor Duvel, I am also In Houston and I made a saison similar to Tank 7, It turned out amazing. Let me know if you would be interested in swapping a few bottles. This last Sunday I brewed a Honey Wheat for those hot Houston days to come!

T-58 for Saison beer would it work???

ChuckCollins said:

T-58 for Saison beer would it work???

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I like T58 for Tripels and 3711 or 3725 (biere de garde) for my saisons., but it should work just fine. I found T58 takes a bit of time if fermented at cooler temps, but we don't get many of those here in Florida so it took me by surprise on my last batch. Otherwise, fermenting in the 70's should give you a nice slightly spicy saison.

I completely disagree that 565 does not work well. I have had great success with it. I pitch at 68 then ramp it up to 85. When people stop seeing yeast activity they think it is done. A lot of times at that point it is at 1.012-15 and they think it crapped out on them. Even though you see no activity it needs to condition for 1-2 weeks and that is when it drops to 1.004-06. Sometimes you can take it too hot and it can slow fermentation. This strain is one of the coolest to watch if you have a glass carboy. It is very active.

QBBC said:

Doctor Duvel, I am also In Houston and I made a saison similar to Tank 7, It turned out amazing. Let me know if you would be interested in swapping a few bottles. This last Sunday I brewed a Honey Wheat for those hot Houston days to come!

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that could be something i'd be interested in!

of course i'll have to brew it first - think i have one more beer ahead of it in the pipeline

Sounds good let me know when is a good time

I went with two vials of 565 in a 10g batch for the first 4 days. When it slowed, I tossed in 2lb of honey and some 3711 and it has been going crazy for the next 4 days. I'm curious to see how it turns out, I'll post when it finishes. I'm going to give it 14 days in primary then split the batch.

5 gallons will go on tap and the other 5 will go into a carboy with Brett B for as long as it takes to taste good sampling 4 weeks at a time

I pitched at garden hose temp around 71, then left it in my garage wrapped in blankets on these hot San Diego days.

Dok said:

I completely disagree that 565 does not work well. I have had great success with it. I pitch at 68 then ramp it up to 85. When people stop seeing yeast activity they think it is done. A lot of times at that point it is at 1.012-15 and they think it crapped out on them. Even though you see no activity it needs to condition for 1-2 weeks and that is when it drops to 1.004-06. Sometimes you can take it too hot and it can slow fermentation. This strain is one of the coolest to watch if you have a glass carboy. It is very active.

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I agree with Dok, I had the same experiance recently and took wyeast advice and was willing to let it rest for up to six weeks, though I held temperature at 77 and it only took 3wks for 2 different batches to go from 1.060ish to 04-06