Sour Smelling Starter

I harvested some pacman yeast from the bottom of my primary when I was transferring a few weeks ago. I made a starter with this harvested yeast the other day and it smells sour.

I read some other posts on here that people have experienced sour and grapefruit type smells with this particular strain. Since it looked healthy I didn't bother to smell it before brewing. Once I was ready to pitch I noticed the smell and I had no other options (shoulda had some dry backups in the fridge). Also, the home brew shops are all closed tomorrow so I couldn't risk leaving wort in a fermenter for 2 days. I swirled up the starter and pitched away.

I know time will tell whether I had a bad starter but in the meantime I wanted to hop on here and see if anyone else has experienced these types of smells with this yeast strain or any other starters.

I haven't played with the Pacman strain so I can't help you there. However, in all other experience I wouldn't touch a starter that didn't smell right to me. Probably won't make you feel warm and fuzzy...I hope someone has something better to say about that strain for you.

This is actually my first attempt at making a starter so I have nothing to compare the smell to.

Starters often smell bad. No problem. If you trust your sanitation procedures, make beer with it.

The first week of a fermenting beer can smell pretty bad, too.

i asked this about a month ago when I brewed my porter.

beer turned out great.

The reason starter liquid often goes sour after a couple of days is simple, you are making what amounts to an unhopped beer.

To counter this some folks add one or two hop pellets to their dme when they are boiling it. But honestly, it's the starter "beer" that is sour, NOT the yeast. As long as you decant that off the yeast cakes, you'll be fine.

Revvy said:

To counter this some folks add one or two hop pellets to their dme when they are boiling it.

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The hops inhibit yeast reproduction. To what extent, I don't know, but I've heard one of the "experts" state this. Therefore, I don't add any hops to my starters. I believe the "expert" was the english Carlson guy, or something like that. Podcast.

In the past, I added some hops to the starter boil to bring the pH down and hopefully create a difficult environment for bacteria. That purpose may still have enough merit to continue adding them.

passedpawn said:

The hops inhibit yeast reproduction. To what extent, I don't know, but I've heard one of the "experts" state this. Therefore, I don't add any hops to my starters. I believe the "expert" was the english Carlson guy, or something like that. Podcast.

In the past, I added some hops to the starter boil to bring the pH down and hopefully create a difficult environment for bacteria. That purpose may still have enough merit to continue adding them.

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Well I take opinions form "experts" with a grain of salt. Just because one wanker has HIS take on it, doesn't mean there's not 10,000 other folks who have had different experiences with it. Lots of folks on here add 1-2 pellets to their wort. And I believe it was at least one or two "Experts" who suggest doing it.

Oh yeah, like THIS one..

John Palmer, "How to brew."

Chapter 6 - Yeast
6.5 Preparing Yeast and Yeast Starters

3. On Wednesday (or Tuesday for slants) you will make up a starter wort. Boil a pint (1/2 quart) of water and stir in 1/2 cup of DME. This will produce a starter of about 1.040 OG. Boil this for 10 minutes, adding a little bit of hops if you want to. Put the lid on the pan for the last couple minutes, turn off the stove and let it sit while you prepare for the next step. Adding a quarter teaspoon of yeast nutrient (vitamins, biotin, and dead yeast cells) to the starter wort is always advisable to ensure good growth. It is available from your brewshop.

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He (expert) never said not to add hops to starters. I don't think he was even discussing starters. I drew that conclusion based on the fact I mentioned above.

Regarding "experts", yea, I hear ya. There is a lot of tribal and anecdotal information that is rapidly changing in the homebrewer community. But science of cellular reproduction is documented and irrefutable, and that is what this expert was discussing. I applied that information to my starter process, right or wrong.

I don't think he is just any wanker. I think he runs the brewing school at University of California.

I had considered the lack of a hop addition as one possible reason for the sour smell.

My starter was only 1 pint so I swirled it up and added the whole thing.

had a very short lag time and there is an airlock bubbling away behind me as we speak.

Haven't used PacMan yet, but the Sierra Nevada strain (WLP001, US-05, Wyeast 1056) smells really sour, like sourdough bread. Every strain is different, with experience you will learn what is normal and what isn't.

I agree. it was wlp001 that i used in my porter. really, really sour. crazy chiconians.

My first post on this site was a worried ramble on an "infected" starter using WLP001. It smelled awful but I used it anyways and now have a great session APA to enjoy because of it.

I see your 2 wanker experts and raise you one anecdotal conjecturer.

Starters throw off more noticeable esters because we might not be as tightly controlled with our temperatures. Also these starters tend to live in your human space areas as opposed to formal brewing spaces.

Speculation... perhaps the yeast growth stage is like puberty. Lots of new funk going on.

Finally the yeast to wort volume is much higher than a beer. Lots of smells.

You will get the hang of it quizmaster...I assumed because you were asking about a particular strain there was something outside the realm of the normal starter odors. Like the others said, don't expect a starter to smell like beer, they do smell a little off. When you decant them I would consider taking a little sample and try it. It won't be the best tasting, but I think it a good idea to sample at all different levels so you can better determine if something is wrong in the future.

Thanks dudes! The Amber Ale that I pitched the starter to has moved to the secondary and a small taste from the test jar tells me that it is good beer. It definitely needs some age and probably needs to drop another 5 points so I plan to bulk age this one for a month or so. very nice yeast cake on the bottom of the primary. I may use starters more often.

Has anyone had an infected starter? How can you tell? Solventy smells, barnyard smells?