Avery duganA clone

I was working on a clone of this, and had a question about the hopping schedule, so I emailed Matt Thrall, the head brewer. He sent me back the entire recipe.

duganA DIPA

OG: 1.074
AE: 1.011

Grist:
Pale 2-Row - 94.8%
Dark Aromatic - 3.8%
C-120 - 1.4%

Hops:
60min - Magnum (15.1%AA) - 0.76oz
15min - Chinook (11.4%AA) - 0.95oz
0min - Columbus (12.0%AA) - 0.95oz
0min - Centennial (9.4%AA) - 0.95oz
0min - Chinook (11.4%AA) - 1.89oz

Dry-Hop Addition
Chinook - 3.78oz
Columbus - 3.78oz

Yeast - California
Ferm Temp - 68F


If you enjoy hops and haven't tried this beer, go get it now.

Here's the description from the Avery website,

"Lupulin Rapture Incarnate! As fervent devotees of hops, we found ourselves on a quest to create a transcendental IPA capable of quenching our voracious lupulin desires. Our mantra became “unity of bitterness, hop flavor and aroma.” Enlightened, duganA IPA was born: A brutally bitter, dank, piney and resinous ale designed for those seeking a divine hop experience."

LOVE this beer and just found the recipe. I had tried to work out a clone and failed. I missed out on the utterly massive dry hop.
Thanks for posting this

I'm new to homebrewing, with only two batches under my belt, but kits aren't involved enough for me. I'd like to try to brew a few more extract batches and then probably go to all-grain. Anyway, I love DuganA and this seems like more of a challenge, since I don't think there is an existing extract recipe, but I need some help.

I'm hoping someone can check my math and my assumptions in converting this to an extract recipe...

I'm using the recipe in this thread and the methods of conversion found here: http://www.brew-dudes.com/all-grain-to-extract-conversion/78

This recipe doesn't list the total lb of 2-row nor the expected efficiency. I assumed 14# 2-row at 70% efficiency. That seems to be in line with the other Avery recipes. What do you all think of those assumptions?

If 14# of 2-row is 94.8% of the grain bill, then that means I'd need 0.5# Dark Aromatic and 0.2# C-120. Sound right?

Using method #1, from the site above, this is the conversion I end up with:

14# *37PPG = 518
518* .70 efficiency = 362.6
362.6 / 5 = 72.52, so ~73 expected efficiency.

So, the expected OG would be 1.073. That's pretty close to the 1.074 listed above.

So, backing up a bit, this means the following should work out:

DME: 362.6/44 = 8.25#
OR LME: 362.6/37 = 9.8#

Using Method 2 I get very similar results: 8.4#DME and 10.0# LME

So, like I said, what do you think about this as an extract version of the recipe listed above:

LME - 9.8#
Specialty Grains:
Dark Aromatic - 0.5#
C-120 - 0.2#

Hops:
60min - Magnum (15.1%AA) - 0.76oz
15min - Chinook (11.4%AA) - 0.95oz
0min - Columbus (12.0%AA) - 0.95oz
0min - Centennial (9.4%AA) - 0.95oz
0min - Chinook (11.4%AA) - 1.89oz

Dry-Hop Addition
Chinook - 3.78oz
Columbus - 3.78oz

Yeast - California
Ferm Temp - 68F

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

My homebrew club just brewed a bunch of Avery clones for a festival. One thing we found and confirmed with the brewers is that they get a lot IBU extraction from their 0 min additions. This is due to their whirlpool process. Typically 90 mins maintained with a temp of near boiling wort. If you don't find that the recipe is giving you the IBUs you need, you may need to adjust accordingly.

For instance. I don't have BeerSmith in front of me, but I'm not sure you'll get the 93 ibus for duganA with those additions listed.

Thanks for the reply!

I'm new to brew ing though... Can you tell me what my options are? I assume I could use more hops. Anything else?

Adjust your hop additions to get the same estimated ibus or whirlpool for 90 minutes. I'd leave to 0 min additions the same, but adjus my initial bittering additions.

If you aren't using any brewing software I would suggest getting BeerSmith and input the recipe to see your utilyzation, and then adjust up as needed.

Almost an 8oz. single stage dry hop with highly aromatic hops?

I guess Avery doesn't subscribe to the diminishing returns hypothesis of dry hopping or they do it in two stages and decided not to mention it.

Randy_Bugger said:

Almost an 8oz. single stage dry hop with highly aromatic hops?

I guess Avery doesn't subscribe to the diminishing returns hypothesis of dry hopping or they do it in two stages and decided not to mention it.

Click to expand...

Good point there, I didn't notice that. I'll check our emails to them and see if they mentioned anything about dry hopping.

Thanks Schemy and Randy_Bugger for the replies! This is really helping me to learn a lot and think about new stuff

I'm going to try to tweak the recipe a bit without beersmith. I don't have a copy, although I know there is a free trial available. I learn better by doing things by hand anyway (I'm a math teacher after all). It seems like IBU calculations for whirlpooling are pretty undecided, so beersmith might not be that much help anyway.

I think you are right that the hop values are a little low, but perhaps not too far off if I can whirlpool for 10 or 15 minutes and get some IBUs out of the last batch of hops.

Here's my calculations and some changes:
INCREASE Magnum hops to 1oz. (previously 0.76 oz)
(1oz * 27 efficiency * 15.1AA) / 6.7 batch size = 60.85 IBU

INCREASE Chinook hops to 1oz (previously 0.95 oz) and change the time to 20 minutes (previously 15)
(1oz * 12 efficiency * 11.4AA) / 6.7 batch size = 20.4 IBU

That gives me a total of 81.25 IBUs, leaving 11.75 more needed.
Like I said, it seems that IBU calculations for whirlpooling are all over the place. However, if I whirlpool for even 15 minutes I think I should be able to get at least 2% efficiency out of the final three hops selections (I'm open to being corrected on this).

This would give me 13.18 more IBUs. For a total of 94.4 IBU, which is close to the 93 in the real deal DuganA. Even if I only got 1% out of 'em I'd be within 5 IBUs, which wouldn't be very noticeable.

So, here's the revised recipe (version 2):
LME - 9.8#
Specialty Grains:
Dark Aromatic - 0.5#
C-120 - 0.2#

Hops:
60min - Magnum (15.1%AA) - 1 oz
20min - Chinook (11.4%AA) - 1 oz
0min - Columbus (12.0%AA) - 1oz
0min - Centennial (9.4%AA) - 1oz
0min - Chinook (11.4%AA) - 2oz
Whirlpooling the last three for 15 minutes.

Dry-Hop Addition (needs multiple sessions??)
Chinook - 3.78oz
Columbus - 3.78oz

Yeast - California
Ferm Temp - 68F

Thoughts?

Here with an update recipe. Two changes, DME instead of LME and 0.9 Magnum instead of 1 oz. The latter change costs about 3 IBUs but keeps things more in line with the original recipe ratios.

Going to brew today and just hit up my local brew shop. The brew shop recommended DME. I couldn't understand their reason why they recommended it but I didn't argue. This is my first time using DME, so maybe I'll like it better. I'm thinking it will at least be easier to weight out my ingredients.

Version 3 (4 gallon boil):
DME - 8.25#

Specialty Grains (going to steep for 20-25minutes at 155):
Dark Aromatic - 0.5#
C-120 - 0.2#

Hops:
60min - Magnum (15.1%AA) - 0.9 oz
20min - Chinook (11.4%AA) - 1 oz
0min - Columbus (12.0%AA) - 1oz
0min - Centennial (9.4%AA) - 1oz
0min - Chinook (11.4%AA) - 2oz
Whirlpooling the last three for 15 minutes.

Dry-Hop Addition (needs multiple sessions??)
Chinook - 3.78oz
Columbus - 3.78oz

Yeast - California
Ferm Temp - 68F

Thoughts?

I got antsy and downloaded a copy of BeerSmith to check my math. It looks like some of the numbers are off but the final result is pretty much dead on.

One thing I notice is that the ABV is 7.5, whereas DuganA is 8.5. Common wisdom would suggest adding a pound of table sugar at burnout but BeerSmith says this will bring the ABV to 9%. The program gives me 8.6% when I add 0.75# of sugar.

Anyone know why BeerSmith says that a lb of sugar adds 1.5%? I thought it was 1% per pound. I'm thinking of adding the full pound anyway but I'm going back and forth.

This also brings the OG to 1.082. How does Avery get 8.5% out of an OG of 1.074?

Should I add more DME or sugar and throw off the OG?
Should I add nothing (Does ABV takes a back seat to OG or is BeerSmith is wrong in their ABV calculations??)

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks!,
Paul

I ran the numbers using an OG of 1.074 and an FG of 1.011 and get an ABV around 8.25%.

This is a rough approximation using the following equation:
ABV = (og – fg) * 131

doors52100 said:

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks!,
Paul

Click to expand...

Beersmith calculates sugar additions and ABV just fine. You probably entered a different water volume than Avery. They don't specify water volume. Beersmith is a good program with a few quirks. It takes a bit of tinkering and practice before you understand how to use it correctly.

Regarding the dry hop, you don't have to add it in two steps. Some breweries like Firestone split large dry hops into two steps. Large would be more than 4-5oz for a 5 gallon batch. If you only used 4-5oz, you would still get plenty of aroma out of those hops.

Using a two stage dry hop with almost 8oz. should provide a massive hop aroma. If you added 8oz. in a single addition, some say it wouldn't provide as much aroma as a two stage addition and would be closer to a single addition of half as much hops.

If someone really wants to clone this beer, ask the brewer what happens after flame out. How long are they whirlpooling? When does the temperature drop below the threshold of isomerization? They are getting more bitterness and flavor out of their zero minute hops than the typical homebrewer's post flame out process would provide.

Recipe guesstimate:


It would be good to know if they use a 60 or 90 minute boil. I get pretty close to their specs assuming a 60 minute boil. As you can see, it's only 48.3 ibu. The actual beer is probably closer to 100ibu. Since they probably whirlpool for 60+ minutes at temps where the hops are still kicking out some ibu including the zero minute hops, maybe this recipe is pretty close. Beersmith currently doesn't calculate the ibu of flame out additions properly. It might with the next update.

It would be good to know if they use a 60 or 90 minute boil. I get pretty close to their specs assuming a 60 minute boil. As you can see, it's only 48.3 ibu. The actual beer is probably closer to 100ibu. Since they probably whirlpool for 60+ minutes at temps where the hops are still kicking out some ibu including the zero minute hops, maybe this recipe is pretty close. Beersmith currently doesn't calculate the ibu of flame out additions properly. It might with the next update.

Click to expand...

When I visited Avery about 3 years ago they said they use a 60 min boil for all their beers.

Any updates on this? Anyone tried it with the 60-90 minute whirlpool as suggested in an early post?

What mash temp are we looking at? To get from 1.074 to 1.011??

I am currently drinking this and have decided I need to try to brew this myself.

From the bring back from the dead thread......I'm about to do DuganA this weekend. Anyone have any updates on it before I dig in?
I thought this recipe was on the Avery site but if it was, it's no longer there. No worries, this looks pretty good.

When I input the info into BeerSmith, it doesn't come out anywhere near the 90+ IBU's listed on Avery's website. What am I missing?

Another zombie reply, but I was just searching for a duganA clone and I found this thread! Thank you, Buna_Bere, for sharing your info!

Beer-lord said:

From the bring back from the dead thread......I'm about to do DuganA this weekend. Anyone have any updates on it before I dig in?
I thought this recipe was on the Avery site but if it was, it's no longer there. No worries, this looks pretty good.

When I input the info into BeerSmith, it doesn't come out anywhere near the 90+ IBU's listed on Avery's website. What am I missing?

Click to expand...

Make sure you're entering your 0 minute additions as "Whirlpool/steeping" additions with the amount of time you'll whirlpool those hops. I do a 20 minute whirlpool and BS gave me 93.0 total IBUs. If you do a 60-90 minute whirlpool as suggested above, you'll extract even more IBUs.

Keep in mind that all the IBU formulas are approximations, and should not be used as gospel. The only way to truly know how many IBU are in your beer is to get it tested.

This is done and in the keg. I only whirlpooled 10 minutes but this is very good. I was sent the real thing and this weekend will do a side by side so that I can see what I'm lacking.
But, I'm glad to say I'm pleased with this beer. Even if nothing like DuganA, it's a damn fine beer.