Water Filtration, good or bad?

Hi,
What's the poop on water filtration. I know trace minerals are essential to produce a tasty brew, and I know books have been written on their various effects. Without getting overly complicated (I'm chemistry impaired) is there a type of filter that will remove chlorine, sediment etc. without comprimising flavor?
Thanks,

Jpuf

The only filter that removes chlorine is activated charcoal. This will remove just about everything else as well. If you have a chlorine problem let the water stand for a day before brewing.

But wait - there's more...

You need to know if you have chlorine or chloramine. Chloramine isn't going to be filtered out. I've got quite high chloramine, and now I treat my water with 1 tablet of campden for 10 gallons (camden is SUPER cheap so don't worry if you need it).

When I started doing this my beer got significantly better.

If you've got chlorine, you can let your water sit out for a day, or you can filter almost all of it out with a activated carbon filter. (the setup would cost about $50).

I 've brewed with tap, bottled and filtered water. At the end of the day you need to ask yourself how much you like the taste of your water supply. I find that where I live, the mildly alkaline water and not too much trace chemicals (ie: Cl) results in a very nice brew without filtration, and I don't mind it out of the tap either.

Your city should be able to provide you with a general profile of what your drinking water supply contains.

If you do AG water hardness etc beocmes more important.

Those Charcoal filters do not filter minerals unless they are very low on the micron scale. Most chlorine fitlers are 5 microns. In fact, I'm pretty sure you need to distill to be mineral free. Metals can be filtered but need a small micron sized filter to do so.

Activated charcoal absorbs chemicals but does not "filter" them per say. They are basically 10, 5 or 1 micron

david_42 said:

The only filter that removes chlorine is activated charcoal. This will remove just about everything else as well. If you have a chlorine problem let the water stand for a day before brewing.

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Letting it stand for a day won't help in the case of chloramines, which, unfortunately, a vast majority of water systems have switched too. It's more stable than chlorine so it's better in their eyes and cheaper in the long run. Unfortunately, it's harder to elimate it easily.

You need to know if you have chlorine or chloramine. Chloramine isn't going to be filtered out. I've got quite high chloramine, and now I treat my water with 1 tablet of campden for 10 gallons (camden is SUPER cheap so don't worry if you need it).

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These days you can just about bet that any municipal or rural water supply has chloramines. That is because they are very hard to remove. However,
MATRIKX® +CTO/2 filters in a dual or triple configuration will effectively reduce chloramines to an acceptable level at about 1 GPM. These filters will do the best job for the $. I spent 16 years as a licensed water treatment dealer and this is the best filter system for the removal of chloramines. The reason for a double or triple inline filter system is for additional contact time to remove chloramines while not having to buy a very expensive single filter that will remove chloramines. The single filter designed to remove chloramines is so dense it will plug up with particles rapidly and have to be replaced. In the double and triple filter system you will only plug the first filter and it will not plug on most water for thousands of gallons. I have provided links for a couple of suppliers.

http://www.purewater4u.com/store/kiss.shtml $10.00 each

http://filtersprings.com/filterscd.html $10.61 each - free shipping :rockin:

Dual & Triple filter housings as shown minus the faucet can be purchased at some plumbing supplies, hardware stores or water treatment dealers and can be connected by various means. I use a triple filter system personally as I am somewhat anal.

The only filter that removes chlorine is activated charcoal. This will remove just about everything else as well. If you have a chlorine problem let the water stand for a day before brewing.

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It will not remove "just about everything as well". Carbon filtration, no matter how tight the micron rating is, will not remove any disolved minerals, and at 10 microns, which is the nominal rating of the CTO 10/2, it will remove almost no bacteria and no viruses. It will remove most chemicals in low concentrations if enough contact time is given. And just to clarify, minerals in water that are not dissolved will settle out even if dipped directly from the river. Municipal sources are filtered to remove suspended material.

Letting the water stand for a day will remove chlorine if conditions are right. (in a cold, dark place it will not, in the sun on a warm day/warm water it disperses rapidly.)

However, chloramines will not come out of solution in any resonable time. The is why it is now used for disinfection as someone already pointed out. It is far more stable than chlorine.

As to Campden Tabs, they will work. I will not use more chemical solutions than I have to.

Campden tablets are 20 for $1 at the LHBS. I use 1 tablet for 10 gallons of water.

I think I perfer that over a multiple inline filtration system that needs filters replaced every 6 months - 1 year at $20-30 each.

Well I know Campden tablets are used in Wine making...... completely ignorant in why they would be used in brewing beer though.....

Call me paranoid, but I never trusted the "Brita" or "PUR" style filter systems.



If I got anything, it would be reverse osmosis. Any kind words for that system oh water gods?


:cross:

Campden help remove chloromine. It's used in the brewing water not the wort. You have to let it sit for a while. I think a couple days.

Less than an hour to remove chlorimine with campton.

I let it sit for an hour. Hope I'm not screwing anything up, but my beer tastes a lot better, so who cares.

Prowler 13 said:

MATRIKX® +CTO/2 filters in a dual or triple configuration will effectively reduce chloramines to an acceptable level at about 1 GPM.

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Prowler 13,

When you say the "MATRIX + CTO /2 filters in a dual or triple configuration" do you mean that you have 2 or 3 of the same filter in a row, or do you recommend other type(s) of filter(s) as the other(s)?

I have a single filter housing that I got at Home Depot. What would be the disadvantage of just using the MATRIX + CTO /2 filter alone? I certainly can add another housing.

How often (or how many gallons) do you recommend replacing the MATRIX + CTO /2 filter?

Thanks,

-S

Teedocious said:

I let it sit for an hour. Hope I'm not screwing anything up, but my beer tastes a lot better, so who cares.

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i read it only needs 2 minutes.

Personally I’ve used spring water and tap water and not tasted much of a difference but our water here is not too bad, but not too good. I was intrigued by this discussion so I did a little search and found this article that explains the effects of Chloramines on brewing,

http://brew-monkey.com/articles/waterarticle.php

For those who don't want to read it,

"Chlorine can be eliminated in simple ways, such as simply letting it gas out of the water over time (usually overnight) or by pre-boiling the mash water. Chloramines are not as easily degraded. Chloramines will breakdown with the use of campden tablets, which will break the chloramines into calcium, water and bicarbonate. Failure to deal with chlorine or chloramines can result in yeast metabolizing these into harsh medicinal notes called chlorophenols. This is also true of using too much chlorine as a sanitizer. "

But I think the last point is vary important, if you use bleach to sanitize your equipment rinse, rinse, rinse... The chloine contaminaton from not adiquitly rinsing will be much higher than what will come from the tap...

just my 2¢

Primary: Empty
Seconday:October Krolsch
Keg1: Sour mash English Bitter
Keg2: Empty

Ondeck: Honnymoon mead

I just wish I'd known about the chloramine in our local water before my first six batches had to go down the toilet.

rcd said:

I just wish I'd known about the chloramine in our local water before my first six batches had to go down the toilet.

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All of my brews go down the toilet.




























eventually.

-a.

I don't use my tap water because I have a salt-based water softener + chlorine + who knows what else (tried it once...worst brew to date). Up to this point I have used RO water for extract batches, but I'm getting into all grain. So I'd like to post a follow-on question in this thread...

For all grain brewing, no particular style in mind, if I start with de-ionized, filtered water (basically 0 ppm of any dissolved solids - I can buy this locally in 5 gallon jugs, and they have the analysis to back up the claim of zero dissolved minerals), and I use the pH 5.2 buffer that some of us are raving about, are there any other desirable mineral/salt additions that I might consider?

how much chloramine is too much? my county's water report says the low-hi range is .1 - 4.8 squared. the amount detected is 3.4 squared.

Yuri_Rage said:

I don't use my tap water because I have a salt-based water softener + chlorine + who knows what else (tried it once...worst brew to date). Up to this point I have used RO water for extract batches, but I'm getting into all grain. So I'd like to post a follow-on question in this thread...

For all grain brewing, no particular style in mind, if I start with de-ionized, filtered water (basically 0 ppm of any dissolved solids - I can buy this locally in 5 gallon jugs, and they have the analysis to back up the claim of zero dissolved minerals), and I use the pH 5.2 buffer that some of us are raving about, are there any other desirable mineral/salt additions that I might consider?

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DI (DeIonized) water is good for Iorn's and a Spot free rinse when washing glass wear. I don't think yeast will like that too much, if you used DI water you will have to add all the necessary minerals in the proper amount, mg,Ca,Na, Fe... if you figure out the mineral content of your tap water you and figure out what typs of beer this will be best for. e.g. high Ca++ is good for ales and porters, where low Ca++ is good for lagers. but desolved minerals are esential. you would be better of finding a well water source or use bottled drinking water.

Yuri_Rage said:

I don't use my tap water because I have a salt-based water softener + chlorine + who knows what else (tried it once...worst brew to date). Up to this point I have used RO water for extract batches, but I'm getting into all grain. So I'd like to post a follow-on question in this thread...

For all grain brewing, no particular style in mind, if I start with de-ionized, filtered water (basically 0 ppm of any dissolved solids - I can buy this locally in 5 gallon jugs, and they have the analysis to back up the claim of zero dissolved minerals), and I use the pH 5.2 buffer that some of us are raving about, are there any other desirable mineral/salt additions that I might consider?

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MoreBeer sells Instant Water for just such uses as you contemplate. It's not terribly expensive, but for AG you'll use more than 5 gallons of water, so somewhere between $1.25 to $2.50 per batch.

I bet if you search, you can find out what the mineral composition of the water from the various beer-making regions is and make up your own modifiers from bulk minerals, and probably save a heap of money.

skunked169 said:

DI (DeIonized) water is good for Iorn's and a Spot free rinse when washing glass wear. I don't think yeast will like that too much, if you used DI water you will have to add all the necessary minerals in the proper amount, mg,Ca,Na, Fe... if you figure out the mineral content of your tap water you and figure out what typs of beer this will be best for. e.g. high Ca++ is good for ales and porters, where low Ca++ is good for lagers. but desolved minerals are esential. you would be better of finding a well water source or use bottled drinking water.

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Yup, I know I need to add some minerals if I start with none. I guess the real question is, how much mineral benefit am I getting from the pH 5.2 buffer? The buffer should take care of mash efficiency, but will the yeast benefit from additional minerals/salts?

Yuri_Rage said:

Yup, I know I need to add some minerals if I start with none. I guess the real question is, how much mineral benefit am I getting from the pH 5.2 buffer? The buffer should take care of mash efficiency, but will the yeast benefit from additional minerals/salts?

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Well I’m not sure of the composition of the 5.2pH buffer you are using, but I'd imagine it is a Phosphate buffer because that is what is most common in a Laboratory setting, so it will have Phosphate and Sodium but that might be about it, and you will need to add Ca, magnesium,and sulfates, wich is not too dificult . Beer for breakfast has a good point about the instant water product, if you want to customize your water to a specific regional style of beer.

I think it's a Five Star product, and yes, it's a phosphate buffer. I guess I was hoping that it was a cure all for adding minerals to brew water. You guys have answered my question...I'll still need to start with a decent water profile for the style I brew. I'll go back to Palmer's "nomograph" and Beer Smith's "Water Profile" tool to dial in a decent mineral content, kinda like beer4breakfast suggested. Thanks guys!

Hope I didn't hijack the thread...