whitehause
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, Carafoam is just a trademark name(Breiss I think) for Carapils.
Heady Topper- Can you clone it?
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As far as I know, Carafoam is just a trademark name(Breiss I think) for Carapils.
Carafoam is a Weyermann product. Carapils is a Briess trademark. They're similar but not the same.
whitehause
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Ahh...yep....fingers moved faster than brain again.
Coopertown
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The only insight I have on this is based on their tweet on 2/18/13 that they were brewing their 300th batch. That would have been roughly 17 months into the life of the cannery, so that averages out to about 4 batches per week (this would have been before their expansion came on line). No idea on the exact timing/spacing, but they were still canning twice per week at that time. Could have been something like brew Tuesday and Wednesday, can Thursday (2 batches brewed a month earlier), brew Friday and Saturday, can Monday (2 other batches brewed a month earlier), etc.
@vegan
How do you know there is caramel malt in the recipe? Did John tell you in an email?
I recently brewed a 6.5 SRM IIPA with very minimal amounts of specialty grains. The color seems to be identical to Heady. The highest Lovibond grain was 20L and that was only 2% of the grist.
Possible Choices (if used):
C10, 20, 30 (American or English)
Caramalt
Carapils
Caramel Pilsen
Caravienne
Is Golden Naked Oats still on the table? It's also sweet and has a similar Lovibond like some of these cara malts.
How do you know there is caramel malt in the recipe? Did John tell you in an email?
I recently brewed a 6.5 SRM IIPA with very minimal amounts of specialty grains. The color seems to be identical to Heady. The highest Lovibond grain was 20L and that was only 2% of the grist.
Possible Choices (if used):
C10, 20, 30 (American or English)
Caramalt
Carapils
Caramel Pilsen
Caravienne
Is Golden Naked Oats still on the table? It's also sweet and has a similar Lovibond like some of these cara malts.
Can someone share which days of the week they can on?
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
He said caramalt. No oats in the grist if any kind. The only thing not verified in it out that I can imagine being in there is some form of wheat.
I've tried with caravienne and its close, but slightly off. Never tried caramalt but I think there is a significant amount of it in the recipe.
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Monday and Thursday I believe.
I could believe Fawcett Caramalt at 15 Lovibond. But only 3% or so of it. I personally don't think there would be much more than that amount for both color and flavor reasons. This is likely a 90 minute boil so you'll hit around 5 SRM even without the caramalt.
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I think so too based on color contribution and maltster. Not sure why, but for some reason I feel he is a TF guy.
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Dup
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Could be. I hate to add something in there though when adding another something new, the caramalt, because it clouds my judgment of the one addition. The one thing I want to get in my base is a slight tartness that I got in my last two cans of Heady. Not sure where that is coming from, if there might be some acidulated in there, or if it's from something else.
I sense that tartness as coming from the hops. Possibly the heavy use of Simcoe? It happens in a lot of my hoppy IPAs. I know it's not a Columbus thing. That, or his pH levels could be on the lower end of the recommended range. Russian River uses phosphoric acid for PtE.
HawksBrewer
Well-Known Member
Hopefully this will start my contribution to this thread. My harvested conan blew the tin foil off the top of my starter on the stir plate overnight. This yeast is a beast. Still going strong w/ a 1.040 2L starter as we speak. Tomorrow I'll be brewing a Heady type beer, although I know it won't likely be a true clone. Recipe will be something like this:
12 lbs 2-row (no pearl on hand, I know, I know, but... next time)
2 lbs Vienna
1 lb carafoam
0.5 lb white wheat
(mash at 149)
60min Nugget to get to 70 IBUs - around 2oz
5min 0.5 oz each of Simcoe, Mosaic, Citra, Amarillo, Columbus, Falconer's Flight and Athanum
180F 45min hopstand w/ remaining 0.5oz of each of the above.
2-stage dry hop w/ Simcoe and Amarillo (1 oz each for each stage)
Ferment at 68F w/ Conan.
Report back to ya'll.
Cheers.
12 lbs 2-row (no pearl on hand, I know, I know, but... next time)
2 lbs Vienna
1 lb carafoam
0.5 lb white wheat
(mash at 149)
60min Nugget to get to 70 IBUs - around 2oz
5min 0.5 oz each of Simcoe, Mosaic, Citra, Amarillo, Columbus, Falconer's Flight and Athanum
180F 45min hopstand w/ remaining 0.5oz of each of the above.
2-stage dry hop w/ Simcoe and Amarillo (1 oz each for each stage)
Ferment at 68F w/ Conan.
Report back to ya'll.
Cheers.
FermentNEthinG
Well-Known Member
68 may be stretching it I think. I am still getting feverish yeast activity and I am fermenting at 57 degrees currently in a secondary. Seems like Conan wants to pull it down a few more gravity points. I thought I would cold crash after a few more days and enjoy the fruits of my labor.
PseudoChef
Well-Known Member
Haven't had any krausen from the yeast on my stirplate. The mystery continues...
Krausen at less than 24 hours on the stir plate. I am going to add a bit more wort with some yeast nutrient.
So what's the verdict on the etiology of HT dankness? A product of the yeast? Columbus hops?
I tasted the first bottle of my second extract brewing attempt.
6.6 lb sparkling amber briess lme
1 lb crystal steep
1 smack pack Wyeast london ale III (didn't make a starter)
Falconer 1 oz at 60/10/5
Primary for 10 days, FG 1.02 (stuck there since day 7, underpitched??)
7 day DH with 1 oz cascade, 1oz galaxy
Bottled with corn sugar
Has the body of typical basic home-brew. Heavy grapefruit flavor. Not much of the fruit promised by the London Ale III. Maybe fermenting at 68F was too high. The most interesting thing about this beer is the fruity hop aroma is very similar to HT, only much less intense.
I can't wait to get started on my first partial mash HT attempt.
So what's the verdict on the etiology of HT dankness? A product of the yeast? Columbus hops?
I tasted the first bottle of my second extract brewing attempt.
6.6 lb sparkling amber briess lme
1 lb crystal steep
1 smack pack Wyeast london ale III (didn't make a starter)
Falconer 1 oz at 60/10/5
Primary for 10 days, FG 1.02 (stuck there since day 7, underpitched??)
7 day DH with 1 oz cascade, 1oz galaxy
Bottled with corn sugar
Has the body of typical basic home-brew. Heavy grapefruit flavor. Not much of the fruit promised by the London Ale III. Maybe fermenting at 68F was too high. The most interesting thing about this beer is the fruity hop aroma is very similar to HT, only much less intense.
I can't wait to get started on my first partial mash HT attempt.
whitehause
Well-Known Member
I think it has to have something wheatish? in there. It's just to "thick" not to have some grain other than barley. I could see the cloudiness from quick turn around, but not that thickness. Much as I hate to say it, flaked corn would add thickness and that little sweet note in the background.
whitehause
Well-Known Member
I got a kreusen right off the bat with 1 can (from two that were shipped to me). Started with 800ml of 1.020 DME starter. It was a nice creamy color by the next morning. Just turned off the stirplate from my third step, and it's got a lot of yeast dropping.
If it doesn't start pretty quick, I'd start over. This yeast doesn't seem to take nearly as long to show signs of activity as others I've harvested.
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Definitely Columbus
whitehause
Well-Known Member
I've got an IPA going using Pearl (~87%), Crisp Cara (~7%) and GN oats (~6%), using Conan. I know that we've confirmed "no oats" in HT, but this isn't a clone, more just using some of the ideas I got from doing a clone, and combining them with what I know to be the Abrasive recipe. I call it Sküll Sänder, to honor both recipes and to keep it barbarian. 
For my next clone, I'm leaning towards either the Crisp cara or Simpson's Caramalt (the latter is what I suspect Kimmich meant, just a hunch) and maybe just a smidge of torrified wheat. I use TW in a lot of my English pales and it does lend to the mouthfeel/body, which is what was lacking in my first attempt (Pearl, carapils, corn sugar).
For my next clone, I'm leaning towards either the Crisp cara or Simpson's Caramalt (the latter is what I suspect Kimmich meant, just a hunch) and maybe just a smidge of torrified wheat. I use TW in a lot of my English pales and it does lend to the mouthfeel/body, which is what was lacking in my first attempt (Pearl, carapils, corn sugar).
Went to the Alchemist again today. Outta beer until Monday but got a teaser sample. Took a picture of what looked like some sort of yeast harvesting container. The fermenting conicals were all hooked up to the big collection container. The fermentor closest to me was set at 72 deg.
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Nordeast, I'm interested in TW, going to do stuffs recipe with it so will get extra for next heady. What do you think percentage wise for heady?
I know everyone is blown away the yeast can ferment in the 50s but we've seen a sign that says they ferment at 68, seen tanks at 68 and 78, and it would make sense to ramp up from 68-72 over the ferm process. I like results at 66 and 68, also like 60-62, but think it was closer in the 68 range. We also know they fermented other beers at 68 with Conan because Mitch Steele got a recipe from john that detailed ferm temp and pitch rate
I know everyone is blown away the yeast can ferment in the 50s but we've seen a sign that says they ferment at 68, seen tanks at 68 and 78, and it would make sense to ramp up from 68-72 over the ferm process. I like results at 66 and 68, also like 60-62, but think it was closer in the 68 range. We also know they fermented other beers at 68 with Conan because Mitch Steele got a recipe from john that detailed ferm temp and pitch rate
I'd say keep it restrained, 5-7%. Just a guess, but even a little will lend to the mouthfeel. Also, use .25 or so #s of rice hulls, that $hit gets sticky in the mash.
bigbeergeek
Well-Known Member
7% torrified wheat won't require any rice hulls.
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I'm leaning towards this now:
11# Pearl (84.6%)
12oz Torrified Wheat (5.8%)
12oz Caramalt (5.8%) 17.5SRM
8oz Dextrose (3.8%)
Mash at 149, Ferment at 68.
Hopped with Columbus, Simcoe, Amarillo, and Centennial.
11# Pearl (84.6%)
12oz Torrified Wheat (5.8%)
12oz Caramalt (5.8%) 17.5SRM
8oz Dextrose (3.8%)
Mash at 149, Ferment at 68.
Hopped with Columbus, Simcoe, Amarillo, and Centennial.
Great thread guys, but since its tough to go through all 63 pages, is there a post someone could point me to that has the best current consensus on the recipe?
The secret to how all you guys are getting your hands on Conan would be much appreciated too. I would culture it from a can, but those are impossible to get around here too.
Many thanks to anyone who could provide some insight!
The secret to how all you guys are getting your hands on Conan would be much appreciated too. I would culture it from a can, but those are impossible to get around here too.
Many thanks to anyone who could provide some insight!
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
theveganbrewer said:
That sounds delicious, whether it ends up nailing the clone or not.
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Hope so. I'm tempted to really up the Columbus on this try. Drinking it now and just getting a lot of hop that isn't Simcoe. I need to find a good all Columbus, or mostly Columbus beer I can side by side.
geneticbiscuit
Member
Has anyone tried dry hopping some bland beer (see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/dry-hop-testing-bud-light-399495/) and then doing some blending trials to nail down the late/dry hop additions? I imagine you could get pretty close this way in a week or so then make minor adjustments from there to really nail it down.
HawksBrewer
Well-Known Member
Ended up changing the recipe slightly as I brewed w/ a buddy who contributed. Ended up at:
11 lbs 2-row
4 lbs vienna
1 lb carafoam
13.5 Pilloncillo sugar
High krausen at 24 hours w/ considerable activity at 64F. Blow off smells phenomenal, like apricots and baked bread. Yum.
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Conan growing project has started on the stir-plate. Wish me luck!
Hope to be brewing Easter Monday - a 3-Batch marathon! The first of those beers will be a Conan/Columbus/Pearl SMaSH.
Hope to be brewing Easter Monday - a 3-Batch marathon! The first of those beers will be a Conan/Columbus/Pearl SMaSH.
othellomcbane
Well-Known Member
I can't remember, at what point and why did we narrow it down to just those four hops? At the beginning, I recall people saying that there was a six-hop blend or something, but some of that might be extract, et cetera. Do we know for sure there isn't maybe one other hop in there?
My friend brewed a rather nice Columbus single hop IPA a few months ago. It was shockingly fruity, reasonably dank, and not very earthy. Not really the usual citrus fruitiness, just a general, soft fruitiness. Took me totally by surprise. So what about something like Apollo in Heady Topper, in small doses? Apollo seems to have an even more intense "dankness" than CTZ.
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theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Could be, I'm down to four after having about 6 or 7 in there a few times. Just never tasted quite right, no sense in keeping them in there. I really don't even know about the Centennial. John said Simcoe, Columbus, Amarillo, and so I'm using them at least. There could definitely be a wild card in there, but it's got to be American according to John, all American hops.
HawksBrewer
Well-Known Member
I made sure to include those in mine, and added a few I know aren't in it just to see how it turns out. Ended up w/ simcoe, amarillo, columbus, mosaic (too recent to be in HT), falconer's flight (again, recent hop), athanum and a little bit of citra. Should be delicious regardless. Did 0.5 oz of each at 10min and the remaining 0.5 oz on a 180F 30 min hopstand. Conan is rocking as we speak at 64/65F. Can't wait to get this on tap and see how it stacks up.
othellomcbane
Well-Known Member
Gotcha, thanks. I really need to get my hands on some Heady again, it's been too long and my memory of the flavor profile is pretty faded at this point. Doesn't help that it's tasted somewhat different each time I've had it, either. Planning to do my next Vermont trip sometime in May, and I'll probably try a clone attempt in early summer.
In the meantime, brewing a Simcoe-single hop IPA with Conan this weekend.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
theveganbrewer said:
I've got a 75/25 Columbus/Citra IPA I'd be happy to send for some Conan
Coopertown
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Went to the Alchemist again today. Outta beer until Monday but got a teaser sample. Took a picture of what looked like some sort of yeast harvesting container. The fermenting conicals were all hooked up to the big collection container. The fermentor closest to me was set at 72 deg.
I was there this afternoon and saw the same exact thing--except the fermenter was set at 61 deg. The blowoff tube from the fermenter, leading to the collection container, was definitely active, bubbling away as I watched. What I don't know is if this is the same batch you saw on Saturday or if this is a newer batch...
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