Spurhund Zunge

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flyangler18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
5,557
Reaction score
47
Location
Hanover, PA
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
3338/5335 dual pitch
Yeast Starter
1L for 3338
Batch Size (Gallons)
6
Original Gravity
1.031
Final Gravity
1.005
Boiling Time (Minutes)
15
IBU
4
Color
2.6 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
30 days @ 68°
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
2 months @ 75°
Tasting Notes
Refreshing tart and crisp, a very underappreciated style
[SIZE=+2]Spurhund Zunge[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]17-A Berliner Weisse[/SIZE]
Author: Jason Konopinski
Date: 2/3/09



Size: 5.0 gal
Efficiency: 80%
Attenuation: 80.0%
Calories: 94.15 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.029 (1.028 - 1.032)
|===========#====================|
Terminal Gravity: 1.006 (1.003 - 1.006)
|======================#=========|
Color: 2.36 (2.0 - 3.0)
|=============#==================|
Alcohol: 3.01% (2.8% - 3.8%)
|===========#====================|
Bitterness: 6.1 (3.0 - 8.0)
|=================#==============|

[SIZE=+1]Ingredients:[/SIZE]
3 lb Pilsner Malt
2 lb Cargill White Wheat
.75 oz Tettnanger (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
1 ea WYeast 5335 Lactobacillus Delbrueckii
1 ea WYeast 1338 European Ale

[SIZE=+1]Schedule:[/SIZE]
00:03:00 Dough In - Liquor: 1.56 gal; Strike: 159.98 °F; Target: 148 °F
01:33:00 Saccharification Rest - Rest: 90 min; Final: 146.0 °F
01:53:00 Batch Sparge - First Runnings: 0.0 gal sparge @ 145 °F, 0.0 min; Sparge #2: 2.63 gal sparge @ 175 °F, 10.0 min; Sparge #2: 2.63 gal sparge @ 175 °F, 10.0 min; Total Runoff: 6.39 gal

[SIZE=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.2[/SIZE]Berliner Weisse is an incredibly refreshing, cleanly sour ale that I've come to love since I had my first in Berlin in 2004. The degree of sourness can be augmented through the length of aging.


Yes, you read that correctly! This recipe is based on a 15 minute boil, resulting in a very slight 4 IBU; this could also conceivably be formulated as a no-boil recipe using FWH and a sour mash. I happen to prefer pitching a commercial L. delbrueckii culture. I pitch the yeast and Lactobacillus cultures at the same time, however some have reported a sharper sourness (if so desired) by pitching the Lactobacillus first, then the Saccharomyces 48 hours later.
 
Bulk-aging in secondary with a beautiful pellicle.

IMG_5628.JPG
 
Thanks for this. I've been thinking about looking around for a Berliner Weisse after having one from a local brewery here in socal, good stuff.

Do you have a sense for time now in terms of sourness vs. legnth of aging?
 
Do you have a sense for time now in terms of sourness vs. legnth of aging?

This most recent batch has been bulk-aging for just shy of two months now and it's quite sour now- although I prefer mine to be a bit tarter. I'd start at two months, and taste periodically to see how it is progressing. I've heard some have aged 6+ months. I would think 3-4 months is peak, based on my own personal tastes.
 
I'm trying for a 1-2 gal batch since I'm not sure if I'll like it :)

I have a 2 gal stock pot for the boil.
 
Jason,

It appears as if Wyeast may have changed their numbering patterns a bit (this was confirmed by the HBS that I use). They weren't familiar with 4335, but pointed me to 5335.

Beersmith has 4335 listed as well. From the description in the above link, I believe that the correct product number for this strain is 5335.

I typically don't brew other people's recipes, but at a 15 minute boil I'm probably going to toss this into my next brew day. It's a style that I've always wanted to try, but I've never been able to find even a commercial example.
 
Thanks for the heads up, Kyle! I edited the OP to include the new numbering designation. Looks like BTP was using the older one.

You'll enjoy it, I suspect. I mean, sure, it's not dripping with hops but it'll keep you interested!
 
Thanks for the heads up, Kyle! I edited the OP to include the new numbering designation. Looks like BTP was using the older one.

You'll enjoy it, I suspect. I mean, sure, it's not dripping with hops but it'll keep you interested!

I prefer hopped up beers, but I can certainly enjoy beers that aren't hoppy at all. Especially sour beers. I'll be brewing this next weekend and I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out.
 
So when you decide that the sourness is good, do you just rack from under the pellicle? Won't the lacto continue to eat? How do you prevent continued fermentation and bottle bombs? Do you just have to drink it fast?
 
I brewed this up on Saturday. I only pitched the 5335 and as of last night it had quite a nice krausen on it. I'm going to take a reading after the krausen has dropped and see where it is. I may not even add any Sacc.

I'm looking forward to this beer in late May/early June.
 
I brewed this up on Saturday. I only pitched the 5335 and as of last night it had quite a nice krausen on it. I'm going to take a reading after the krausen has dropped and see where it is. I may not even add any Sacc.

I'm looking forward to this beer in late May/early June.

Interesting! Keep me posted on how it progresses. Can't beat a 15 minute boil, eh? :D
 
not used to your beer software.... if i read it right, 90 min mash, then couple 0 min sparges? and a ncie short 15 min boil :)
 
I love that interest in this recipe/style is taking off. :rockin:

Watch out, BierMuncher.... that Centennial Blonde recipe ain't got nothin' on this! ;)
 
not used to your beer software.... if i read it right, 90 min mash, then couple 0 min sparges? and a ncie short 15 min boil :)

Yeah, that's just a formatting error.

90 min rest - check
10ish minute sparges - check
15 minute boil - check (although I figure 30 minutes total...adding the hops after the hot break passes, but that's just me!)
 
Think I'll mash at 150*F and pitch Notty after the L. Delbrueckii gets going. Should get me similar attuenuation to what you got.

This will me mighty, mighty tasty when it's 100*F outside!

150 should be fine, but I'd consider using the European ale yeast. It has a natural tartness that is very complimentary to the bugs while still showcasing the malt. This style isn't all about the sour, believe it or not.
 
I mashed for 60 at 150, ended at 147. Sparged, stirred for about 2 minuntes then let it rip into the kettle.

I typically make hop additions when I get to about 208, right before the boil. I don't boil, get it where I want it, then add hops. So I boiled for exactly 15 minutes. I was a bit short of my target 6 gallons, but I hit 7.5 brix, so I'm happy.
 
150 should be fine, but I'd consider using the European ale yeast. It has a natural tartness that is very complimentary to the bugs while still showcasing the malt. This style isn't all about the sour, believe it or not.

Good to know. I'll spring for the 1338 smack pack, and try re-using the yeast since the grains are cheap. :)
 
Good to know. I'll spring for the 1338 smack pack, and try re-using the yeast since the grains are cheap. :)

Reusing the yeast might be tricky because of the growth differential between the sacch. and the lacto; I scratched my head for months trying to figure out the best way to wash/reuse the blend. The general consensus was that it could be done for 1-2 generations, then the sacch would outgrow the lacto on subsequent pitchings.

What I've been doing is splitting off a portion of my starter for the 1338 and banking that future use, either freezing w/ glycerin, cold-storing in a pint jar, or streaking to both slants and plates. It taking a bit more planning, though.
 
Just drew a goblet of the Zunge a few moments ago.

Camera battery is charging, so a picture will have to wait.

Tart, effervescent and palate-cleansing. Appropriate as an apertif. :D
 
Brewed this up today. Fermentation is plugging right along. My mouth was watering while I was reading this recipe at 11am yesterday morning. If I recipe made my mouth water I figured I would have to make it.
 
Wait huh? U only used one germ right? are you saying use wlp011 and get the right germs for next time? or is it just 730 am and my head not working....
 
Wait huh? U only used one germ right? are you saying use wlp011 and get the right germs for next time? or is it just 730 am and my head not working....

Yes, one bug, but this is a dual pitch - Saccharomyces (brewer's yeast) and Lactobacillus (bacteria) together. WLP011 is the Sacch. strain, 5335 is the Lactobacillus.
 
oh ic ic, ok yeast :)

so none of the 3 bugs they have will cut it? :( could I brew it and then pitch the bugs a week later? Ill see if i can get someone to bring good bugs to class or something.
 
so none of the 3 bugs they have will cut it? :( could I brew it and then pitch the bugs a week later? Ill see if i can get someone to bring good bugs to class or something.

I'd hold off until you can get the Lactobacillus culture, unless you want to experiment with a sour mash.

Can Chris order the 5335 for you? There are plenty of OHBS that stock it if she can't. If you order from Brewmaster's Warehouse, you'll have it Saturday because he ships FedEx and you're definitely in the two-day window.
 
I just checked the frederick store, and they dont have it. and thirsty brewer doesnt seem to list what they have on their website.....I guess ill ask chris to order it for me, and wait a week or so :(
 
Jason, could you recommend a commercial beer similar to this that is available in the Philly area. The recipe sounds like it would make a great brewing experiment, but I don’t want 5 gallons of something that I won’t drink.
 
Jason, could you recommend a commercial beer similar to this that is available in the Philly area. The recipe sounds like it would make a great brewing experiment, but I don’t want 5 gallons of something that I won’t drink.

That's where it gets tricky....there aren't too many US-made commercial examples. A quick search on BeerAdvocate showed Nodding Head, Sly Fox, Iron Hill and Triumph Brewing as producing a Berliner Weisse.
 
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