What causes harder or softer hangovers?

6 or 7 AG batches under my belt. They are all fantastic. But some of them with less ABV will cause slightly harder hangovers than the others with more ABV. So as I am ever learning about the AG process and fine tuning every aspect from getting a bigger mash paddle and stirring more to purchasing a more accurate thermometer... What exactly might I have done wrong or differently that would cause one beer to give more of a hangover tha another???

jackson_d said:

What exactly might I have done wrong or differently that would cause one beer to give more of a hangover tha another???

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You probably had two to many

I've got close to 30 batches under my belt, and haven't had a hangover from homebrew. I can still get one from commercial, but I've yet to get one from HB.

I'm not sure what would cause it.

For me hangovers usually occur if I drink too many commercial beers. I believe because of the additives and preservatives that are allowed in them by the FDA. I don't like drinking anything other than micro-brewed beer or homebrew. But occasionally will drink a mass produced swill.

For example: Miller Lite contains propylene glycol alginate, water, barley malt, corn syrup, chemically modified hop extracts, yeast, amyloglucosidase, carbon dioxide, papain enzyme, liquid sugar, potassium metabisulfite, and Emka-malt. (this is what I Googled: what additives are in my commercial beer?)

I'm sure that the other two, Bud and Coors have some similiar additives to their products as well. This I believe can cause hangovers, some bad and some not so bad. Just depends on how much you embibe.

Like some other Homebrewers I don't really get hangovers from Homebrew. I do think that it's because of it being all natural. Atleast that's what I believe. Someone else can respond with a better answer and may have a more scientific explanation.

I get hangovers from homebrew.

You guys just aren't drinking enough.

i don't get hang overs unless i start drinking very early and pass out very late ( a good 12 hour drunk). Best cure, drink when you wake up and don't stop til about 4 hours before you go to bed. I usually feel fine the next day.

I think I read somewhere that the main cause of hangovers is dehydration. I'm sure all the cruddy additives do not help.

Drink at least a quart of water and take three aspirin before going to bed to make the next day easier. Gatorade is even better.

Dougan said:

I get hangovers from homebrew.

You guys just aren't drinking enough.

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+100

I made an American Red Ale from Morebeer that I liked to call the "Hangover Mistress" because I always got hangovers when I drank a lot of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangover#Causes said:

...In addition, it is thought that the presence of other alcohols (such as fusel oils), by-products of the alcoholic fermentation also called congeners, exaggerate many of the symptoms ...

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusel_oil said:

Fusel alcohols are formed when fermentation occurs:

• at higher temperatures,
• at lower pH,
• when yeast activity is limited by low nitrogen content.

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My two hundreths of a dollar is that differences in fermentation temperature or pH cause some of your beers to produce more fusal alcohols and thus different degrees of hangover. Free Amino Nitrogen should not be a problem in AG brewing(BT - Malt Extracts: Cause for Caution). Further, since the BMC's of the world do as much as they can to speed up production I suspect the ferment warmer than they should to speed up production.

the_Roqk said:

For example: Miller Lite contains propylene glycol alginate, water, barley malt, corn syrup, chemically modified hop extracts, yeast, amyloglucosidase, carbon dioxide, papain enzyme, liquid sugar, potassium metabisulfite, and Emka-malt. (this is what I Googled: what additives are in my commercial beer?)

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wow that looks closer to a pepsi formula that it does to a beer ingredient list. well not really but still that is pathetic.... I thought miller light was the good stuff, triple hopped and everything

+1 on the higher (fusel) alcohols.

Try fermenting at lower temps to curtail their formation.

CaptYesterday said:

+1 on the higher (fusel) alcohols.

Try fermenting at lower temps to curtail their formation.

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Yes, that's what I've heard. I've never had a hangover from homebrew, but I have had some wicked hangovers from my wine (much higher ABV) and from commercial beers. I think homebrew can be made without as much fusels, and I ferment almost all of my ales at 62-64 degrees.

Also, homebrew tends to still have the yeast in it- which is supposed to be rich in B vitamins. I think it's good practice to drink plenty of water, too, when you're imbibing in a few beers.

I find it's water, water, water all the way. If I don't drink plenty of water then I feel like death the next day. I try to go for a 1:1 water:alcoholic drink ratio. Means you spend a whole lotta time going to and from the bathroon though!

camiller said:

My two hundreths of a dollar is that differences in fermentation temperature or pH cause some of your beers to produce more fusal alcohols and thus different degrees of hangover.

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see now this is what i was interested in. i'm 30 years old and know what is and know how to cure a hangover.

the whole 'homebrew doesnt give you hangovers' thing is a crock. dude drink eight 8% homebrews and tell me you dont have a hangover the next day..

the one beer that gives me the most problems is the saison i just brewed. and well we all know saison is supposed to be fermented at high temp, and i brewed the saison becuase i dont have air conditioning and its average ferment temp in its 3 week primary was 80deg. so after fusel alcohol was suggested, look in charlie's book 'fusel oil'. roughly quoted- 'comes from higher ferment temps and causes headaches'

i knew i read somewhere something about part of the process contributing to harder hangovers thanks...

the_Roqk said:

For example: Miller Lite contains propylene glycol alginate, water, barley malt, corn syrup, chemically modified hop extracts, yeast, amyloglucosidase, carbon dioxide, papain enzyme, liquid sugar, potassium metabisulfite, and Emka-malt. (this is what I Googled: what additives are in my commercial beer?)

....Someone else can respond with a better answer and may have a more scientific explanation.

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propylene glycol alginate is used as a foam stabilizer aka heading agent

amyloglucosidase is an enzyme used to help break down the higher rate of adjuncts and speed up the mash

papain enzyme is derived from papaya and is used to break down haze forming proteins

pot met = campden = dechlorinator

emka is used for color.

Most, if not all of these can besourced at HBS.

Truth is hangovers are caused by fusels produced by too hot a fermentation or by not allowing the yeast to clean them up properly.

Has anyone here ever read The Joy of Drinking? I think there's a chapter or two in there about the cause of hangovers, I can't find my copy of it right now, but it's a pretty good/quick read.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Truth is hangovers are caused by fusels produced by too hot a fermentation or by not allowing the yeast to clean them up properly.

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ok ok, so even if it is at a higher ferment temp, let it sit for an extra week or two before kegging? i.e. my saison might have cleaned up some of the fusels and not give me such a headache if i let it sit a week longer in primary? i was very excited to try it, i did a 3 week primary. it was at 1.004 after two weeks so i said 'screw it' and kegged that bad boy... maybe needed one more week.. def would have cleared it up a bit more, its a little foggy..

Best bet is to start the ferment right as fusel reduction post ferment, IIUC, is a intolerably slow process that requires lots of active yeast for the pathways to work efficiently.

Choose a yeast known for lower fusel levels

Start fermentation on the cool side of the yeast spectrum

Make sure there is adequate nutrient for the yeast.

IIRC, fusels are made in the early stages.

I have been drinking so I may be a bit too. Been a while since I've read about the Erhlich pathway.

Hmmm.....I was always under the impression that leftover sugar was also a contributing hangover factor. I usually feel like death warmed over after drinking sugar drinks (rum and Coke, etc). Thats why I only drink beer!

Dougan said:

I get hangovers from homebrew.

You guys just aren't drinking enough.

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+ eleventy billion!

when I drink too much, I drink two quart mason jars of water and take a mens-one-a-day and an aspirin. wake up feeling great

Well, if you getting lesser hangovers, you not doing it right.

Ethanol is a phasodilator and dehydrates your body. Not only that, the enzyme produced by the liver that metabolizes ethanol is pretty toxic. So you've got a bunch of toxic, dehydrated blood being pumped through dilated blood vessels. That's why you're head is pounding.

Aspirin is a vascular constrictor. It counteracts the phasodilation of ethanol to some degree. Between the brewer's yeast that's rich in Vitamin B-12 (helps flush out the toxin enzyme), the vascular constriction of Aspirin and the rehydration of water, you should be able to combat just about any hangover.

Wikipedia rules.

Brewer's yeast actually does not have B12, but it does have lots of other B vitamins.

Brewer's yeast

Once I started drinking better beer and homebrew, my beer hangovers are much less. I feel fine if I drink a little water while I'm drinking and get a decent amount of sleep. I never get hangovers off whiskey alone though.

I've got a hefe, that
A) I pitched at 85 degrees
B) AC went out and it got to 77-80 in the basement
c) Only let it stay in primary for 10 days since I needed my bucket for my Pumpkin beer to get it going in time for Oct when the temps start to drop.

I can drink 2-3 of them and feel like crap the next day. The last few in the fridge have been a little better, so I'm thinking they may be continuing to bottle condition, but the first one I drank made me feel like crap the next morning without getting much more than a buzz.

Generally a hefe shouldn't bottle-condition -- they're best fresh*. I've never brewed a hefe that warm, but I find them best brewed around 75 degrees. I like a lot of esters in my hefe, tho'. I'd imagine higher than that and you've probably got a heck of a lot of esters... never heard of them causing a hangover, but I've seen people make weird faces...

* There are a few exceptions, but they tend to have much higher ABV.

LordHedgie said:

Generally a hefe shouldn't bottle-condition -- they're best fresh*. I've never brewed a hefe that warm, but I find them best brewed around 75 degrees. I like a lot of esters in my hefe, tho'. I'd imagine higher than that and you've probably got a heck of a lot of esters... never heard of them causing a hangover, but I've seen people make weird faces...

* There are a few exceptions, but they tend to have much higher ABV.

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I'm not "bottle conditioning" them, but only putting a few at a time in the frig, so they are ageing some.

The esters aren't that bad, and the ABV is only about 6-6.5% so it's not that high. I'm sure they are full of fusel alcohol due to the hot fast fermentation and no time in primary.

Part of how we metabolize alcohol is genetic. Fortunately it is easy to understand. Here is a simple table on gene expression and alcohol metabolism:
BrewOnBoard

I can't tell you why one of your beers gives you a hangover while the other dosen't. But.....

Like many have stated hangovers are primarily from dehydration because alcohol is a diuretic. The kidney is comprised of millions of nephrons which are basically tiny tiny plumbing that works to filter the water, electrolytes and other components from the blood. As they travel through the nephron (kidney) most of the water and electrolytes are reabsorbed depending on your bodies hydration state and electrolyte concentration. Alcohol hinders this reabsorption and therefore you excrete more water than you take in by drinking beer. Drink plenty of water while drinking alcohol to counteract this water loss.

greenleer said:

Ethanol is a phasodilator and dehydrates your body. Not only that, the enzyme produced by the liver that metabolizes ethanol is pretty toxic. So you've got a bunch of toxic, dehydrated blood being pumped through dilated blood vessels. That's why you're head is pounding.

Aspirin is a vascular constrictor. It counteracts the phasodilation of ethanol to some degree. Between the brewer's yeast that's rich in Vitamin B-12 (helps flush out the toxin enzyme), the vascular constriction of Aspirin and the rehydration of water, you should be able to combat just about any hangover.

Wikipedia rules.

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Alcohol is a vasodilator and not a "phasodilator". There is no such thing but you are correct. Aspirin does interfere with inflammatory mediators that can cause some of the symptoms of hangovers (headache, nausea, etc). This is primarily how it helps hangover symptoms just like it interferes with inflammation from a bum knee.

It is amazing how much of it comes from lower alc like methanol and higher alcs like butanol/penatanol. Grain mashes don't really make methanol. Fruit makes a lot of of it - something to do with a reaction with the pectin.

Don't forget that when you drink and go to the can a lot, you are losing substantial amounts of sodium, potassium, and other minerals and electrolytes in the urine. Part of getting past a hangover is replacing those substances. In addition to water both before sleep and after waking (sometimes in between depending on the size of the bender) and asprin/ibuprofen, I drink a 12 oz. can of V8 with a multivitamin. If there's one in the house, I'll also choke down a banana. That helps, but the only REAL cure for a hangover is time.

As I have gotten older, I realize that Hank Williams Jr. was right:
hangovers hurt more than they used to.

One of the biggest problems for the 'hangover experiment' is blinding of the participants. Its very difficult to have two populations of potential subjects experience a hangover under both experimental and controlled conditions. Because, as many of us know, we have all had many different classes of hangovers. Obviously there is a metabolite(s) of alcoholic beverages that's the culprit but to limit that to just one parameter is too nearsighted to be plausible. So in conclusion, two of the biggest challenges to finding the biochemical origin to hangovers is objectivity and double blinding.
-Jefe-