Not entirely happy with my efficency!

I have brewed 4 AG batches. First batch hit spot on at 70%. The last three have been between 60-65%. I even did a double batch sparge on the last two. I am hitting my temps spot on and holding them well. I mash in a cooler, have done all single infusion, and batch sparge. My volumes are right on. I don't have a grain mill so I am using the LHBS mill. Maybe I am not getting a good crush. I also have not mashed out. I just hit my mash temp, and then hold it for an hour and after my girl of I sparge.

Sorry after I vorlof and get my first running I batch sparge.

Just had a long discussion about this here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/advice-best-ways-control-my-mash-long-387593/

It's a lot of info and a lot of back and forth, but it hashed out a lot of things I was confused about.

-Rich

Thanks for the read... Sounds like you were having The same trouble as me... I'm not looking to get 80% I'm happy with 70% if I can hit that every brew day! It's a pain getting different numbers every batch!

Have you tried stirring the grains every 15-20 minutes? What does your manifold look like?

Grasshopper! You are missing the point!
Efficiency is NOT important!
Consistency IS important!

Better to always hit 65% than to be all over the board!
If you are consistent, just add a bit more grain!

jma99 said:

Grasshopper! You are missing the point!
Efficiency is NOT important!
Consistency IS important!

Better to always hit 65% than to be all over the board!
If you are consistent, just add a bit more grain!

Click to expand...

This is what a veteran club member told me. For an average batch the price difference between 65% and 75% isn't worth the headache. A few dollars for 5 gal batches. Nailing your process and numbers every brew day is whats important.

Yes, Grasshopper, wise is your veteran club member!

ask the shop to double mill your grains

At my LHBS you measure and mill your own (very nice). I may try a small batch and double crush just to experiment.

jma99 said:

Grasshopper! You are missing the point!
Efficiency is NOT important!
Consistency IS important!

Better to always hit 65% than to be all over the board!
If you are consistent, just add a bit more grain!

Click to expand...

That is the problem... Consistency! I have been all over the place 71% once, 59% the next and anywhere in between. If I was within 2% every time and I was only getting 55% EVERY TIME. I would at least be able to know exactly where I was going to be with any given recipe. Like I said before I'm not asking you how to get high efficiency. I'm asking you how to get consistent!

moorerm04 said:

Like I said before I'm not asking you how to get high efficiency. I'm asking you how to get consistent!

Click to expand...

This is what happened in my thread. Several people assumed since I mentioned efficiency I wanted to go as high as possible when I wanted consistency first and foremost.

Then I got a few good comments on how to achieve consistency through ferreting out efficiency problems (well, specifically conversion issues), and it all started to make more sense.

-Rich

Echoloc8 said:

This is what happened in my thread. Several people assumed since I mentioned efficiency I wanted to go as high as possible when I wanted consistency first and foremost.

Then I got a few good comments on how to achieve consistency through ferreting out efficiency problems (well, specifically conversion issues), and it all started to make more sense.

-Rich

Click to expand...

I noticed this in yours as well. I'm just not happy with planning a recipe for 70% and getting 60%. Or visa versa. I just want to be able to plan a recipe and brew day and hit my numbers.

I was consistently hitting 60-70% until I bought my BC. I now consistently hit 80-82%.

In my experience inconsistent milling = inconsistent efficiency.

For me early on I had the same issues with consistency using the LHBS mill. I bought and modified a Corona mill which helped solved the the crush issues. I was able to get 75-78% every time. I always felt like a jerk asking the LHBS to check their gap or double mill, it seemed to annoy them to have to do more work to make me happy.

Since Dec I have upgraded to a Monster Mill MM2 2.0 and use the Bru'n Water spreadsheet to adjust my water profile and keep pH levels around 5.4. This has helped improve efficiency to 85-88%. No stuck sparges. BTW I cooler mash and batch sparge once with no mashout ever. Single infusion. After reading Kaiser's work on mash thickness I have been mashing around 1.75 qt/lb - 2.0 qt/lb depending on the beer. This has helped reduced any chances of doughballs. I stir like crazy at the beginning and usually just a bit every 20 min of mash. Hope this helps!

How do you mash in? do you pour your strike water in onto the grain, pour the grain into the water, or come in through the drain? inconsistencies with mash efficiencies can be the result of dough balls, or when parts of the grain dont get wet during the mash in. dough balls tend to form more readily when you pour the strike water on to the grain. its important to really get in to the mash and break up any dough balls that form. If you can, filling from the bottom through the grain is the best way to get a good even wetting and avoid forming of dough balls.

I add the strike water to my mash tun and then dough in slowly and stir the fire out if it while I'm adding grain. I know for sure I'm not getting dough balls. I really think it is because of the LHBS mill. I would rather have my own mill anyway so I'm going to get one And see if that helps.

According to How to Brew you're supposed to add water to the grain not the other way around.

Hop_Hero said:

According to How to Brew you're supposed to add water to the grain not the other way around.

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It makes absolutely no difference. Do whichever works best for you.

Second double crush. My efficency became much more consistent after I started doing that.

Too high an efficency is not a very good thing. I've gotten it in the 80s before and it didn't help my beer, just made it under hopped.

I don't want to get great high efficiency. If I was consistent and knew what my efficiency was I would ALWAY be able to punch the numbers into beersmith and not worry about missing my IBU numbers or gravity!

mojo_wire said:

Second double crush. My efficency became much more consistent after I started doing that.

Too high an efficency is not a very good thing. I've gotten it in the 80s before and it didn't help my beer, just made it under hopped.

Click to expand...

High efficiency is fine if you expect it and plan for it. I average 83-85%.

Denny said:

High efficiency is fine if you expect it and plan for it. I average 83-85%.

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+1 to this! I plan for it. Adjust my grain bill and hops accordingly. This year I plan on getting 40-50 batches done. With higher efficiency (85%) I should be able to save about a bag of 2-row. That usually costs me $50 at the LHBS. I'll definitely take that!!

Hop_Hero said:

According to How to Brew you're supposed to add water to the grain not the other way around.

Click to expand...

He says that, but in practice it's an extremely trivial point. Really the only differences are:

1. Pouring room temp grains is safer than poring in 160+ degree water
2. anecdotally, it's believed pouring grains reduces the chance of forming dough balls

For reference, here is John Palmer mashing in by pouring grains into the water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8BsFiicDxM&feature=youtu.be&t=5m52s