Need help designing an Imperial IPA recipe

So I am putting beer smith to work and designing an Imperial IPA recipe which will showcase the amarillo/simcoe combo with a little columbus thrown in the mix. Please let me know how my recipe looks and how I could improve it. Any thoughts on the specific hop schedule/mix would be greatly appreciated. Also, how do you guys feel about my adding 2 oz's of chocolate malt to this recipe in order to darken it up a bit?

Imperial IPA
Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal

Est Original Gravity: 1.084
Est Final Gravity: 1.010
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.8 %
Bitterness: 109.7 IBUs
Est Color: 10.9 SRM



Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
14 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.2 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.7 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.4 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.7 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5 0.7 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6 5.4 %
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 62.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 9.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 14.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 11.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 3.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 5.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 13 0.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 14 1.3 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 15 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs

It's a good recipe. Any changes would be minor. What temp are you mashing in at? I prefer the 7.5 to 8.4% abv range myself with a finish of 1.010 ish. When you get to 9-10%, the alcohol can become harsh and detract from the hop focus. Also for better hop focus, maybe lessen the Munich to 4-7% tops and use a lighter crystal malt. I personally wouldn't use the chocolate malt here for the sake of darkening the beer. It's a trivial thing. Seems to me that it should be about the hops, the drinkability, and the dryness.

For the hop schedule:

Cut the first Columbus addition in half. Add another small addition at 30 to create a more even, smooth bitterness. Work from there to get 100-130 IBUs by the end of the recipe. I prefer warm aroma hop stands to 1 minute (or even 5 minute) boil additions. I like the dryhop amount though.

Did you want more fruityness, citrus, pine, floral, or what? Your preference will depend on how you use the Amarillo, Columbus, and Simcoe late in the boil and the dryhop.

I figured I would mash at 150 to get the beer to be nice and dry/crisp (which will be helped by the dextrose addition). Or would 152 be a better number? I will omit the chocolate malt addition, I guess keeping the color pale is not a bad thing. Maybe drop the munich a little to drop the OG and sub the crystal 60L for some 20L. I am going for a more citrus/pine flavor with this one. More citrus but a little pine is definitely desired. Trying to stay away from the overly floral/fruity hop flavors with this one. How would you recommend I change the late additions/dryhop to go for that? Thanks for your continued help bobbrews! The other IPA you helped me create came out pretty damn good!

Those all sound like good things. But Amarillo can be quite floral and fruity whereas Simcoe has some fruity notes as well to go with the pine. Using both late usually results in fruity citrus.

Try this:

1.00 oz Columbus - Boil 60 min
1.00 oz Columbus - Boil 30 min
2.00 oz Amarillo - Boil 15 min
1.00 oz Amarillo - Boil 10 min
1.00 oz Simcoe - Boil 5 min
2.00 oz Simcoe - Post-Boil Aroma Steep 30 min
1.00 oz Amarillo - Dryhop 7-10 days
1.00 oz Columbus - Dryhop 7-10 days
2.00 oz Simcoe - Dryhop 7-10 days

Edited to better suit your goals

Do you feel that the late addition here is enough? I am just used to adding at the 15, 10, 5 and flameout additions, but definitely willing to see how this works out regardless. Also, should I be adding some columbus during the later additions to get some of that pine aroma? or would that honestly not be needed. Lastly, are the post-boil aroma steep hops just thrown in at flameout? I have been really enjoying the benefits of a 30 minute hot steep at around 210-190 degrees. Definitely a necessary step for getting that quintessential American IPA mouth-feel and aroma.

I think you'll have a good IIPA regardless. The only difference is how well the different character(s) of these hops are portrayed. Sure, you could split them up at 1.5 oz. each among 15/10/5/0, but that won't trump something like 3 oz. at 15 and 3 oz. at 0. It will just provide a different character. I doubt you'll get much pine any way you divvy up the recipe. You could try focusing 75-100% on Simcoe late and in the dryhop. Simcoe needs a lot of help from hops like Apollo and Columbus otherwise. When it's mixed with a lot of Amarillo, things can get quite fruity. I guess could swap out 1 oz. Amarillo for Columbus, but it won't do a heck of a lot in the way of adding an overall pine taste. See edited advice above.

Bisco_Ben said:

I have been really enjoying the benefits of a 30 minute hot steep at around 210-190 degrees. Definitely a necessary step for getting that quintessential American IPA mouth-feel and aroma.

Click to expand...

Try the 160-90 degree range. This warm steep offers different character than something closer to boiling temps.

Alright, so this is what I came up with after your kind suggestions Bobbrews. However, this only puts me at 74 ibus and I am looking to break the 100 ibu barrier with this one. Any suggestions on how to do that and still accomplish what I am going for with the piney citrus feel? Thanks again bobbrews you are the man!

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
14 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 77.8 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.6 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.8 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 5 5.6 %
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 32.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbia [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 9.7 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 19.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 7.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 5.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 12 -
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.7% - 9.5 %
Bitterness: 74.0 IBUs
Est Color: 7.7 SRM

Bisco_Ben said:

Alright, so this is what I came up with after your kind suggestions Bobbrews. However, this only puts me at 74 ibus and I am looking to break the 100 ibu barrier with this one.

Click to expand...

Well, you can't "break the 100 IBU barrier" simply because it's not possible. But if you want more bitterness and IBUs, you could increase the IBUs by moving the 30 minute hops to 60 minutes to maximize their IBUs, and increase the columbus hops at 60 minutes as well. I don't think it'll make a better beer, but you would definitely increase the bitterness.

@Yooper

Plenty of breweries break the theoretical 100 IBU barrier with their IIPAs. I tend to prefer those to the ones that simply stop at 60 and call it a day. There is some truth to what you're saying, but it sounds like it's pointless feat in your eyes to brew this way. I can name a bunch of stellar beers that exceed 100 theoretical IBUs.

@ Bisco

Cut the base malt by 1 lb. and lessen the corn sugar a bit.

bobbrews said:

@Yooper

Plenty of breweries break the theoretical 100 IBU barrier with their IIPAs. I tend to prefer those to the ones that simply stop at 60 and call it a day. There is some truth to what you're saying, but it sounds like it's pointless feat in your eyes to brew this way. I can name a bunch of stellar beers that exceed 100 theoretical IBUs.

Click to expand...

They may make more than 100 theoretical IBUs, but no beer I know of has actually ever exceeded about 90 upon testing. That was my point. My Pliny clone had 250+ theoretical IBUs, but probably actually had 90ish.

So, the reality is that the 100 IBU "limit" isn't related at all to the amount of hops. And a 100+ IBU better (theoretically or not) will not necessarily have better flavor or aroma, and not more bitterness than a nicely made 80 IBU beer. But of course, some do. And it's not really related to the IBUs added for bittering, but instead the awesomely huge flavor and aroma hops.

My point is that a well made beer at 74 IBUs is perfectly fine, and the whole recipe needs to be considered and not just the theoretical IBUs.

That's widely quoted fact, but it doesn't mean there are no differences between two IPAs with the same grist and yeast, one brewed to 90 IBUs and one brewed to 250+ IBUs. They will taste different.

I remember reading somewhere that Pliny had 65-70 actual IBUs upon being tested with a spectrometer or whatever you call it. There's obviously something more at play here, because you don't need almost a pound of hops to reach that point with the same OG, yet Pliny sort of stands in a league of it's own in terms of hop flavor/aroma.

Aside from the ibu debate, what do you guys think I should do with this recipe from here? I just know that I love IIPAs with 100+ ibus such as Stones Ruination and Avery's Mahajara (sp?). I am obviously in the end trying to come up with the best beer and not sacrifice quality for added bitterness. I just want something along the lines of those beers mentioned.

Sorry guys but I just realized that I put columbia hops in at 30 mins and not columbus. Obviously makes a big difference and now my ibus are closer to where I want them. :rockin: This looks like a great beer so I would be happy to brew as is but if anyone has any other suggestions on how to improve it in terms of what I am going for please let me know. Also, does anyone have any suggestions for amount of gypsum to use and when for a beer like this. I am on Long Island, NY and we have generally pretty "soft water" for whatever its worth (dont have an analysis).

Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
14 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 80.0 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.7 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.7 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.9 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 5 5.7 %
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 31.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 24.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 19.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 7.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 5.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 12 -
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs


Est Original Gravity: 1.082 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.076 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.6 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.7 %
Bitterness: 88.4 IBUs
Est Color: 7.3 SRM

Bisco_Ben said:

Sorry guys but I just realized that I put columbia hops in at 30 mins and not columbus. Obviously makes a big difference and now my ibus are closer to where I want them. :rockin: This looks like a great beer so I would be happy to brew as is but if anyone has any other suggestions on how to improve it in terms of what I am going for please let me know. Also, does anyone have any suggestions for amount of gypsum to use and when for a beer like this. I am on Long Island, NY and we have generally pretty "soft water" for whatever its worth (dont have an analysis).

Click to expand...

I like the hopping although I'm not a fan of columbus as a dryhop. Many do, though, so it's probably just my taste.

I might move some simcoe to 10 minutes or so, as I love it. But otherwise, I think it looks really good!

If it was my beer, I'd probably do this:

1.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - FWH
1 oz amarillo- 15 minutes
1oz columbus 1o minutes
1 oz simcoe 5 minutes
1 oz amarillo 5 minutes
1 oz simcoe 1 minute
1 oz amarillo 1 minute
1.00 oz Amarillo Dry Hop 7.0 days
1 oz simcoe dry hop 7.0 days

It's close, though, and not worth worrying about if you're happy with your schedule.

So I brewed this beer this past monday and everything went perfectly, thankfully. Fermenting away now at 70F (up from 68) and I like to add my corn sugar at high krausen so I am going to do so tomorrow most likely. I was wondering if I should either add 12oz to this brew or a full pound? Adding 12oz would bring the abv to 9.5% with 95 ibus and adding a full pound would bring it to 9.9%. I would love to have a 10% imperial ipa recipe but only if it would benefit the beer more overall. What are your thoughts?