sorefingers23
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I just finished building my fermentation chamber, and was wondering what kind of difference will I notice in my beer?
Temp control difference
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TyTanium
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It will taste better. Haha. More consistent (and usually lower) temps means a cleaner ferment, meaning less undesirable flavors, full attenuation, and a crisp tasty beer. This is an extremely important aspect, so good job!
Darwin18
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Night and Day. Seriously. You should see a pretty dramatic increase in quality and consistency.
sorefingers23
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Darwin18 said:
I'm really glad to hear that, cuz the last 5 or so batches I've made havnt turned out that good. I've since stopped brewing until I make some much needed changes to my brewery
Darwin18
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I was in the same boat about a year and half ago. I was making beers that in the spring and fall turned out great but in the summer were awful. It was pretty depressing to pour $50's down the sink. I bought a chest freezer and made that my fermentation chamber. Easily the best investment I've ever made in my brewery. Making starters for liquid yeast was also an important change too. Take care of your yeast and they will take care of you!
SpeedYellow
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Should be a big improvement. IMHO, the 3 biggest factors to homebrew success are (in no particular order): (1) decent recipe, (2) chlorine-free water, (3) proper fermentation temp. For the most part, all the other stuff is just minor tweaking.
MyakkaRiver
Member
Before I converted a freezer into my fermentation chamber, my beers were drinkable at best - Florida heat is mostly a bad thing. Just finished an IPA for my 1st beer in the ferm chamber and BAM! Delicious ale! :rockin:
beergolf
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You forgot to add proper sanitization and pitching the proper amount of healthy yeast. But yes controlling ferment temp is very big.
I know you said no particular order, but proper fermentation temperatures should still come before a decent recipe. I've made the same recipe before and after I was controlling temperatures, and you wouldn't have known it was the same recipe.
I think you can get away with cutting a lot of corners in brewing, but a high fermentation temperature can turn the best recipes undrinkable.
SpeedYellow
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I didn't mention the proper amount of healthy yeast because I've never noticed a big taste difference when dramatically underpitching the mrmalty recommendations. And I suspect nobody else here has either, but I'm open to being proven wrong. IMHO pitch rate is just fine tuning.
TyTanium
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Yeah, I'm not one to disagree, but this is not true. Pitch rate definitely belongs on the list of "most important things in brewing". This is one of the more well-documented topics in brewing. It's science
SpeedYellow
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I'm still waiting for somebody to claim that they've tasted a major difference due to pitch rate. Have you? If you're going to call me wrong, please back it up.Yeah, I'm not one to disagree, but this is not true. Pitch rate definitely belongs on the list of "most important things in brewing". This is one of the more well-documented topics in brewing. It's science
OTOH, I know for a fact that either a lousy recipe, chlorine, or bad fermentation temp will cripple a beer 100.000% of the time.
Actually there was several experiments, here are some of them:
http://seanterrill.com/2010/05/09/yeast-pitching-rate-results/
http://sciencebrewer.com/2012/01/11/pitching-rate-experiment-results/
http://uselesslogic.com/blog/tag/yeast/
SpeedYellow
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diS said:
Thanks for the links; those are good reading. But they clearly support a view that pitch rate is a minor issue. To read those and conclude that under pitching will ruin the beer shows a blind allegiance to the homebrewing dogma du-jour. Specifically:
1. The first study found that, in blind tastings, nearly half the people preferred the under pitched beer.
2. In the second study, the author admits that neither he nor his students could differentiate the beer.
3. The third experiment wasn't too scientific, but regardless isn't very telling because pitching the equivalent of 1/4 packet dry yeast per 5gal 1.056 ale is well outside the norm. It's just not something anyone would do. Pitch a 1.5L starter in a lager or big ale, instead of a recommended 3L starter, and now you have an experiment.
I like to use yeastcalc / mrmalty as a guideline, but we're kidding ourselves to say that using half the recommended yeast will ruin the beer.
TyTanium
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Yes, I have.
Not saying it'll ruin it. There are an abundance of drinkable under-pitched beers, I've made plenty. Just saying that it could be better, much better, from a proper pitch rate. And more consistent quality too.
Everything I've read and all my experience has shown that pitch rate matters. But, I've been proven wrong before and am always happy to listen to a good argument. And if your experience says otherwise, then I can't argue with that. I have a lot of respect for people who have been doing this for a long time.
I have, both in my own brewing and in judging beers that have been underpitched.
I used to underpitch routinely, and while I loved my beer there was a little "something" that I could pick up. I started using professional pitch rates and my beer improved dramatically. I always thought that the yeast would reproduce enough and the fermentation was "good enough". I was wrong- the beer was markedly better with out a "homebrew" taste.
SpeedYellow
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Don't you both find the first two studies above at least somewhat troublesome for your position that there's a dramatic taste difference? I'm just wondering how you explain those away, since they really don't support that position.
I don't mean to doubt your experiences, because I totally respect that. We're all just searching for knowledge here.
TyTanium
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n=1 (i.e., small sample size)
I'd like to see these replicated to a statistically significant level. Even though they controlled for everything quite well, there are so many variables at play that a meaningful sample size is critical to definitive results. There is just as much (if not more) anecdotal evidence in support of the opposite.
There are some compelling studies in a number of brewing textbooks, but sadly I can't recall them off the top of my head.
Ditto. Agreed. I am in full support of this discussion. (And sorry to the OP for the off-topic!)
I notice a difference with varying pitch rates too. More significantly, I held a blind triangle tasting with some local club members using a number of different styles (using Mr. Malty-recommended vs typical White Labs/Wyeast cell counts), and the difference was not only obvious to everyone for *all* styles, and 12 out of 13 tasters identified the heavily/"properly" pitched one as resulting in both a better APA and AIPA.
There are also beers I intentionally underpitch, as I find an improvement in ester profiles for certain styles using certain yeast strains, the most notable of which is my saison. So I'm not saying huge pitching rates will *always* result in better beers, but I will say that it is still usually the case, and more importantly, that both realizing there IS indeed a difference, and understanding what that difference is, will result in better brews pretty much across the board.
There are also beers I intentionally underpitch, as I find an improvement in ester profiles for certain styles using certain yeast strains, the most notable of which is my saison. So I'm not saying huge pitching rates will *always* result in better beers, but I will say that it is still usually the case, and more importantly, that both realizing there IS indeed a difference, and understanding what that difference is, will result in better brews pretty much across the board.
tgmartin000
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Temperature control is the one area I'm lacking in. I do the swamp cooler routine, but can still get relatively big temperature swings when I add the ice.
I've heard "large uncontrolled " temp swings will cause off flavors - is a swamp cooler enough to offset temperature changes? Will I see a big improvement from swamp cooler to fermentation chamber?
I've heard "large uncontrolled " temp swings will cause off flavors - is a swamp cooler enough to offset temperature changes? Will I see a big improvement from swamp cooler to fermentation chamber?
SnowBird
Active Member
Hi guys. I'm down in New Orleans right now riding out this Hurricane with no power. I have some questions on temperature control. I have a large chest freezer I do all of my fermentation in. I have 7 beers in there now fermentin, 1 that I brewed yesterday during the storm. My girlfriend thought a Hurricane IPA was in order and who am I to argue. The brew went great. I pitched the yeast and had the wort down to 72 degrees before I put it in the freezer which got it down to about 67. A few hours later we lost power. I put a large bag of ice in the cooler to keep the beers at safe temps and they are all sitting around 70 except for my newest IPA, the bag of ice is resting in this carboy and it says it is in the low 50's. I am happy the rest of my beers are safe so I don't want to open the cooler to much. I was just wondering though, will the newly pitched Hurricane IPA ferment out just fine once the power comes back on and I can get the temp up a little higher? Also what types of problems could come from this wort getting so cold to start?
Thanks a lot for any knowledge you can throw my way. It's looking like we will be without power for another 24 hours at least so reading the forums on my phone is passing the time.
Thanks a lot for any knowledge you can throw my way. It's looking like we will be without power for another 24 hours at least so reading the forums on my phone is passing the time.
It should be fine- I purposely pitch cool and let it rise to fermentation temperatures, so it will work out for you I'm sure.
Be safe!
