Roeselare Headspace & Fermination Advise

I am brewing my first sour, a Flanders Red. I've read Wild Brews, Brewing Classic Styles and this forum but there are 1 or 2 things that are still unclear.

I use 6.5 gal carboys as primaries, I pitched a pack of 3763 and the fermentation went as expected. It is now 2 weeks in and I can smell wonderful things going on.

My question is about the headspace in the fermenter. Will that be a problem? Or should I let it go longer in the primary and rack to minimize head space? If so when? (In my normal brewing I am primary only unless I am lagering / bulk aging.)

Thanks.

IMO, this is basically the "should I secondary or not" debate, with one added plus to the 'not' side. It appears that Brett and other bacteria actually feed off the yeast cake, and this promotes a bit more sour and funk. Further the headspace in the fermenter is filled with CO2, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Most important thing is to let these yeasts age.

(n.b. I'm pretty new to brewing sours, so you should probably take my advice with a grain of salt)

headspace will be fine, its mostly CO2 at the moment and the brett in the mix will limit oxygen exposure once any gets in. i'd leave it in primary til you make another sour to throw on the cake

also, add some sour dregs to the mix if you can get any, Roe is too slow on its own

I'm on the other side. I'd say rack as soon as fermentation slows. That way you get the beer off the trub for the long haul, and still have lots of yeast still in suspension to provide food for the Brett. Racking to a smaller vessel will also reduce the headspace, that while it is CO2 now, will eventually dissipate (the airlock and bung will breath, allowing O2 in and CO2 out).

My opinion is that you should keep it on the yeast cake because:
A) 1st generation Roeselare is notorious for being weak.
B) Keeping it on the yeast cake increases the sourness which is wanted with a 1st gen Roeselare.
C) More headspace in the primary will add acidity which is actually wanted in the style your brewing (Flanders Red).

The sour stout I'm doing is supposed to sit in the primary on Roeselare for a minimum of 6 months. It's also in a 6.5g carboy. Blanket of CO2 should keep things covered up and keep O2 from coming in, just make sure you keep your airlock filled with sanitizer.

If you do decide to rack to a smaller carboy I would make sure you try and suck up as much of the yeast as possible.

i just bottled a flanders red that was brewed march 3 2012 and it stayed in the same fermentor with oak and cherries the whole time, i don't see what could be a negative consequence of doing it this way. some people think it's important to get the beer off of the trub/yeast as if it's somehow bad but i don't see the science indicating that this is true.

Calder said:

I'm on the other side. I'd say rack as soon as fermentation slows. That way you get the beer off the trub for the long haul, and still have lots of yeast still in suspension to provide food for the Brett. Racking to a smaller vessel will also reduce the headspace, that while it is CO2 now, will eventually dissipate (the airlock and bung will breath, allowing O2 in and CO2 out).

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Listen to Calder. Did an awesome homebrew funky beer swap tasting this week and the two beers that were left on the yeast had serious autolysis off flavors. It's a strange cured meat taste. Not good.

Thanks to all for sharing your experience. Reading the back and forth really clarified the issues. What I've done is rack to a 5 gal carboy, 1 week later I have a noticeable yeast layer on the bottom and I can smell really interesting things going on.

How did this turn out? I'm pitching a no chill Flanders red tomorrow night with the roeselare and I'm curious how moving to secondary sooner worked for you.

bigbeergeek said:

How did this turn out? I'm pitching a no chill Flanders red tomorrow night with the roeselare and I'm curious how moving to secondary sooner worked for you.

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It is still in the secondary, but I've been sampling every month or so. I hit it with some dregs around the first of the year. In April a disgusting (but in a good way) pellical formed. It has begun to break you. The samples have been excellent.

I think my plan is to do a 10 gal batch of the same recipe soon (I can do 10 gal batches now), bottle what I have and split the cake between to new batches.