Coopers Pilsner, skunk?

Hey all, I just recently brewed up a Thomas Coopers Brewmaster Pilsner kit. I added 500g of Muntons light spraymalt and 2 cups of corn sugar at the start. I brewed Oct. 6th, racked to a carboy oct. 8th, oct 23rd I racked to another carboy to get this brew off the lees on the bottom and to let it age. It was kind of skunky, the instructions claimed this would settle out with time. So I left it there until nov. 8th when I bottled. Throughout all of this I kept it in a dark closet with the temperature never exceeding 70 degrees or going under 62. It wasn't too skunky when I bottled it, but last night I drank a few of these and found them to have a skunky smell, similar to some german beers I've drank, like Becks, but no skunky taste at all. Is this a problem? Anyone made this beer? Does it normally have a slightly skunky smell?

I brewed an all - gran Czech Pilsner last April, and in all honesty, it was the best beer I've ever drank, a lot better than this, but there was no skunky smell, is it just a style difference or did I mess something up?

All the best!

Let them in the bottle for another 2-4 weeks and give them a try. Never did this recipe, so don't know about the skunk; just guidelines for conditioning (typically best after 6 weeks in bottles).

I'm having a little trouble following your procedure. If I understand correctly you brewed on Oct 6 and had primary fermentation for two days, then moved to a secondary fermenter on the 8th and racked to a bright tank(tertiary fermenter)? If I am reading that right that is far too short a time in primary. I'd let it go a couple weeks before moving to a secondary.

camiller said:

I'm having a little trouble following your procedure. If I understand correctly you brewed on Oct 6 and had primary fermentation for two days, then moved to a secondary fermenter on the 8th and racked to a bright tank(tertiary fermenter)? If I am reading that right that is far too short a time in primary. I'd let it go a couple weeks before moving to a secondary.

Click to expand...

QFT

The directions say to leave it in the primary for 6 days at 70 degrees- longer if it is cooler.

Sorry, no I brewed it one the sixth. It was in a primary. Moved it to a secondary (Carboy) on the eighth or ninth, it sat in the Primary for three days at least.
So three days in the primary.
I usually let these sit for two weeks in the secondary (carboy) then bottle, they're usually stopped and cleared by then. I was in the middle of midterms (I'm a university student), so I didn't have time to bottle but I didn't want to leave the pilsner sitting on the lees down at the bottom of the Carboy so I moved it (October 28th) to another carboy. Once midterms and stuff were over I bottled it on Nov. 8th.

My general procedure for brewing is three days in the Primary, at least two weeks in the Carboy and then into the bottles. This is what was recommended to me by the homebrew store here in town, as well as one in Halifax. These are also the instructions that come with the RJ Spagnols Brewhouse beer kits, which are phenomonal, I'd reccomend them to anyone.

That skunky smell you're smelling is just what that beer is like. Nothing to worry about there. Like you said... its very similar to Beck's - lots of people like that.

Mutilated1 said:

That skunky smell you're smelling is just what that beer is like. Nothing to worry about there. Like you said... its very similar to Beck's - lots of people like that.

Click to expand...

Ok, thanks so much. I'm actually pretty taken by it, I like the taste. Was just worried about the smell, didn't want to be drinking infected beer or anything. I've never had a batch go south on me so I wouldn't know what to look out for. I do like it, thank you.

I did this kit a long time ago before I started doing all-grain batches. I ended up with a beer that had an overwhelming sulfur smell that I could never get past. I suppose it was due to the higher temp it fermented at (around 65) although the instructions said the yeast would handle higher temps it would've probably had less sulfur had it been fermented at a cooler temp proper for lagering. I'm thinking you might have a similar case but with a skunky odor rather than sulfur...

Alright, I've finally broke down, I went to the Liquor store today and bought a Czechvar Pilsner, which is supposed to be a very good Pilsner from the Czech republic, it tasted similar to the batch of Coopers Pilsner I just brewed. A bit hoppier, but with the same smell and a similar taste, My pils is a bit sweeter, but either way I'm fine with it. Maybe it is just the style then.

Blacktiebrewing: Given what you've just said I'd actually like to make this kit again, only the next time around I'd ferment it in my basement, which is concrete and very cold, just to see if it'd change any. Thanks so much for your help!

Alfred The Great said:

Hey all, I just recently brewed up a Thomas Coopers Brewmaster Pilsner kit. I added 500g of Muntons light spraymalt and 2 cups of corn sugar at the start. I brewed Oct. 6th, racked to a carboy oct. 8th, oct 23rd I racked to another carboy to get this brew off the lees on the bottom and to let it age. It was kind of skunky, the instructions claimed this would settle out with time. So I left it there until nov. 8th when I bottled. Throughout all of this I kept it in a dark closet with the temperature never exceeding 70 degrees or going under 62. It wasn't too skunky when I bottled it, but last night I drank a few of these and found them to have a skunky smell, similar to some german beers I've drank, like Becks, but no skunky taste at all. Is this a problem? Anyone made this beer? Does it normally have a slightly skunky smell?

I brewed an all - gran Czech Pilsner last April, and in all honesty, it was the best beer I've ever drank, a lot better than this, but there was no skunky smell, is it just a style difference or did I mess something up?

All the best!

Click to expand...

I've made about 6-7 of these kits. My favorite Coopers kit!

The way I make it is I use 1.5 lb malt extract, 1 cup corn sugar, brew for 2 weeks at about 15C/58F, transfer to secondary for 1 week at room temp, around 20C/68F. Then I bottle/keg.

I've never had any bad off-flavors, but this beer needs quite a bit of bottle conditioning. I tried a few bottles that were 3 months old and was floored how well it aged.

So if you make another batch try to actually use lager temps and age longer and you'll be fine. I'm sure your current batch will really improve with age.

Cheers
Tony.

brewNdrink said:

I've made about 6-7 of these kits. My favorite Coopers kit!

The way I make it is I use 1.5 lb malt extract, 1 cup corn sugar, brew for 2 weeks at about 15C/58F, transfer to secondary for 1 week at room temp, around 20C/68F. Then I bottle/keg.

I've never had any bad off-flavors, but this beer needs quite a bit of bottle conditioning. I tried a few bottles that were 3 months old and was floored how well it aged.

So if you make another batch try to actually use lager temps and age longer and you'll be fine. I'm sure your current batch will really improve with age.

Cheers
Tony.

Click to expand...

Hey thanks a lot. I tried one of these last night and I'm pretty impressed, it's been just over two weeks in the bottle and the smell is pretty much gone. I'm going to let them sit for another week or so and then start drinking them. They are quite good, I'll probably make them again.
I tried to get the coolest temperatures I could, but my apartment wasn't really cold when I brewed this, it's about 18 in my apartment now so I'll probably make another batch of this around January or so. What exactly is a good lager temperature range, I always thought about 13-18 degrees.
The instructions on the coopers kit, I think, say about 20 is the optimum range, I tried to keep it around there when I brewed it.
Thanks a lot for your help guys!

Cheers!

The instructions on the coopers kit, I think, say about 20 is the optimum range, I tried to keep it around there when I brewed it.

Click to expand...

Yup, even though the directions claim to use a "lager" yeast, it won't ferment at proper lager temperatures.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/hydrometer-way-off-me-88662/

I did a Coopers Bavarian Lager kit a long time ago. I almost got banned from fermenting in the house over that one. Whole house smelled like pickled egg and Pabst Blue Ribbon farts for a week or more.
Kegged it up and let it rest a few weeks the smell was gone but it tasted like nasty old Corona beer. Surprisingly the OL liked it.
AP

APendejo said:

I did a Coopers Bavarian Lager kit a long time ago. I almost got banned from fermenting in the house over that one. Whole house smelled like pickled egg and Pabst Blue Ribbon farts for a week or more.
Kegged it up and let it rest a few weeks the smell was gone but it tasted like nasty old Corona beer. Surprisingly the OL liked it.
AP

Click to expand...

Yeah, this stuff reeked while it was fermenting too, it's settled down now after two weeks in the bottle, it's not skunky anymore. Sure did stink when it was fermenting though!

Docapi said:

Yup, even though the directions claim to use a "lager" yeast, it won't ferment at proper lager temperatures.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/hydrometer-way-off-me-88662/

Click to expand...

The dry yeast that comes with that Pilsner Coopers kit is a lager yeast, as it can go down as low as 13C. I ferment it around 15C for 2 weeks and it turns out nice and clean.

Tony.

Alfred The Great said:

Hey thanks a lot. I tried one of these last night and I'm pretty impressed, it's been just over two weeks in the bottle and the smell is pretty much gone. I'm going to let them sit for another week or so and then start drinking them. They are quite good, I'll probably make them again.
I tried to get the coolest temperatures I could, but my apartment wasn't really cold when I brewed this, it's about 18 in my apartment now so I'll probably make another batch of this around January or so. What exactly is a good lager temperature range, I always thought about 13-18 degrees.
The instructions on the coopers kit, I think, say about 20 is the optimum range, I tried to keep it around there when I brewed it.
Thanks a lot for your help guys!

Cheers!

Click to expand...

20C is ale brewing temps. You need to go down at least to 17C to get a lager style brew for this kit.

Get some large pop bottles, fill them half with water and freeze them. Put 2 on each side of the brewing bucket and put a wet t-shirt over the whole thing (a home-made fridge). Repeat 1-2 times daily. A bit of extra work but this will get the temps down, especially the first 3 days of heavy fermenting. Makes all the difference.

Cheers.
Tony.

brewNdrink said:

The dry yeast that comes with that Pilsner Coopers kit is a lager yeast, as it can go down as low as 13C. I ferment it around 15C for 2 weeks and it turns out nice and clean.

Tony.

Click to expand...

I've fermented with it at 10C with no problems.

Mutilated1 said:

I've fermented with it at 10C with no problems.

Click to expand...

I have one going right now that has been fermenting at 18c for three weeks and is still not finished.

That is after 10 days at 11c when it did absolutely nothing.

A long, long ways from the 6 days the directions call for.

11c is normal lager fermenting temperature, and mine wouldn't do anything at that temp.

The recommended temp in the instructions is 21c- that is ale temps.

They might call it a lager yeast, but it sure doesn't work at lager temps, and they don't tell you to try.

Alfred The Great said:

Alright, I've finally broke down, I went to the Liquor store today and bought a Czechvar Pilsner, which is supposed to be a very good Pilsner from the Czech republic, it tasted similar to the batch of Coopers Pilsner I just brewed. A bit hoppier, but with the same smell and a similar taste, My pils is a bit sweeter, but either way I'm fine with it. Maybe it is just the style then.

Click to expand...

I would say that Czechvar is pretty close to what you'd expect from the Cooper's Pilsner, especially if you make it with Light DME for your added kilo. I've made it several ways so far, but my favorite way to make it is with 1 kilo of the Cooper's dextrose and 500g of Cooper's Light Dry Malt - that is a lot more dextrose than the instructions recommend, but to me it tastes really good - makes it taste more like an American beer that way - drier/crisper.

If you ever get the chance to brew the Cooper's Bavarian Lager - I highly recommend you give that one a try. I'm not sure that they make it anymore, but there are still a few places that they sell it online. Cooper's is making a kit called "European Lager" now and I'm not entirely sure, but it may actually be the same kit just with a different label and name. I made the Bavarian Lager back over the summer, and I used a couple gallons of the last running from the sparge of a big IPA that I was making for the water, 3.3 Pounds of Pale LME, and the Cooper's kit. Fermented it for 3-4 weeks at 50F with yeast from the kit, took it out of the fridge and let it rest for 2-3 days and come up to room temp - then bottled. No secondary. After a couple weeks to carbonate put it in the back of the beer fridge to "lager" till drinking time. I think I have 5 six packs left. This beer came out a lot closer to say "Pilsner Urquell" - another one of my favorite beers, so I was very pleased with how it worked out.

Docapi said:

I have one going right now that has been fermenting at 18c for three weeks and is still not finished.

That is after 10 days at 11c when it did absolutely nothing.

A long, long ways from the 6 days the directions call for.

11c is normal lager fermenting temperature, and mine wouldn't do anything at that temp.

The recommended temp in the instructions is 21c- that is ale temps.

They might call it a lager yeast, but it sure doesn't work at lager temps, and they don't tell you to try.

Click to expand...

I don't know what to tell, you - maybe you got some bad yeast or something ? The refrigerator I ferment my Lager style beers in keeps the thermometers stuck on the sides of the buckets and fermenters at a constant 10F - 24-7. I've had at least one sometimes 2 beers in there with Cooper's lager yeast for nearly a year now and I've never had a problem.

I have had it take 3-4 days to get started before, but never had just 10 days of nothing.

And yeah, if you ferment the beer at lager temps you can expect it to take 3-4 weeks instead of the 6 days mentioned in the instructions. Thats to be expected, if you read the instructions fully you'll see where it says as much.

One thing I've noticed about the lager yeast with the Cooper's kits - they certainly don't give you any extra yeast. I think its a 5g or 7g package - something like that. I think they are assuming that you follow the instructions pretty closely and end up with 6 gallons of wort at about 1.038, which they give you just enough to ferment that well. Well naturally if you only make 5 gallons you're going to end up at around 1.046 and if you add more fermentables and what not you could end up a good bit higher than that even - its very possible that you'll end up with not enough yeast, especially if you're trying to ferment at the colder temps.

I try and make the best of that by reusing the yeast from the last batch if I can, and just save the Cooper's yeast packet for a later beer. Maybe I'll pitch 2 packs if I decide not to reuse the yeast.

Also, I've had very nice results with their original series lager ( the green can ) and pitching my own yeast instead of the Ale yeast that comes with the kit. Before I learned how to ferment it colder in the fridge, I used the Ale yeast on a few batches and it was hit or miss really - I'm not overly fond of that estery Ale character and also the alcohol tasted 'hotter' when fermented at the warmer recommended Ale temps and I don't really like that.

Hey, I'm currently drinking my Cooper's Pilsener, and I have to say, it does require lots of bottle conditioning. Mine had that off taste and smell for about a month, and now about 6 weeks to 2 months after bottling its gotten a LOT smoother and better tasting.

Secondly, I would reccomend you leave your batch in the primary a little longer than 3 days...seems short to me. I'm no expert but it's worth a try.

Alfred The Great said:

Sorry, no I brewed it one the sixth. It was in a primary. Moved it to a secondary (Carboy) on the eighth or ninth, it sat in the Primary for three days at least.
So three days in the primary.
I usually let these sit for two weeks in the secondary (carboy) then bottle, they're usually stopped and cleared by then. I was in the middle of midterms (I'm a university student), so I didn't have time to bottle but I didn't want to leave the pilsner sitting on the lees down at the bottom of the Carboy so I moved it (October 28th) to another carboy. Once midterms and stuff were over I bottled it on Nov. 8th.

My general procedure for brewing is three days in the Primary, at least two weeks in the Carboy and then into the bottles. This is what was recommended to me by the homebrew store here in town, as well as one in Halifax. These are also the instructions that come with the RJ Spagnols Brewhouse beer kits, which are phenomonal, I'd reccomend them to anyone.

Click to expand...

davidparise said:

...
Secondly, I would reccomend you leave your batch in the primary a little longer than 3 days...seems short to me. I'm no expert but it's worth a try.

Click to expand...

Yeast are wonderful creatures, they even clean up after themselves if you let them. I never go less that two weeks in primary and have gone as long as five. When yeast prepare to go dormant they will pick up a lot of the off flavor producing compounds they produced earlier. 3 days in primary is just not enough time. You do not need to rush getting the beer off the lees, this is a fallacy that has been perpetuated for years. Jamil says taking the beer off the yeast too soon is bad for the beer, my LHBS says it also (well I work there so it's really me saying it). Several of the other responders to this thread have mentioned primary time in weeks.

Not rushing the beer off the yeast cake is good for the beer.