Clone Beer Dog Fish Head - Midas Touch

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I think the recipe in Extreme brewing is for Liquid malt extract. If you are using DME I think you should multiply by 0.8.

HMM really...I thought I read a post some pages back that used liquid and was disappointed. I'll have to investigate, thanks for the heads up.

I used DME but did a 5gallon batch and hit the gravity on the nose. What was your initial gravity with the liquid malt extract? And did you have a 6gallon batch?
 
Remember- the recipe in the book is not for an exact clone. That's a recipe based on one of the test batches (10 gallons) used to formulate the final AG recipe for this beer. The brewery also buys ingredients in bulk so there are lots of unknown variables.
 
Looks like I can by a half a gram of saffron for 7 bucks. Is a half a gram enough?

You have to be cautious with Saffron. There are definitely some
Saffrons that aren't full-blown Saffrons. If I remember correctly,
what constitutes REAL Saffron is the stigma and ONLY the stigma of the crocus
flower. Some companies mix the stigmas in with other parts of the
flower as a sort of "filler" which drives the cost down from way high
to reasonable. I remember watching and episode of "Good Eats" with
Alton Brown one night when he was making paella and he explained the
Saffron industry and what to be aware of. It's definitely worth a
watch in your spare time. Here's a link to his little bit on Saffron: http://bit.ly/orBGLs
 
I finally got around to brewing this today. The only deviation from the recipe is I did the 75 min boil with 2.5 gallons, as I don't have anything big enough yet to brew 6 gallons. Other than that I followed the instructions and topped off to 6 gallons. Pitching temp was 68 degrees. Target OG was supposed to be 1.086, mine came in at 1.058. Any ideas what could have happened? I mixed and stirred the wort and top off water for about 5 minutes to ensure it mixed well. The only thing I can think of is it was supposed to really be 5 gallons? Would boiling 6 gallons for 75 minutes boil off 1 gallon? However it shows it being a 6.5 gallon batch. Or is the Muscat grape juice figured into the formula even though you add it after 3 days?

I'm sure it's still going to turn out great, just confused why the OG came in so low.
 
I finally got around to brewing this today. The only deviation from the recipe is I did the 75 min boil with 2.5 gallons, as I don't have anything big enough yet to brew 6 gallons. Other than that I followed the instructions and topped off to 6 gallons. Pitching temp was 68 degrees. Target OG was supposed to be 1.086, mine came in at 1.058. Any ideas what could have happened? I mixed and stirred the wort and top off water for about 5 minutes to ensure it mixed well. The only thing I can think of is it was supposed to really be 5 gallons? Would boiling 6 gallons for 75 minutes boil off 1 gallon? However it shows it being a 6.5 gallon batch. Or is the Muscat grape juice figured into the formula even though you add it after 3 days?

I'm sure it's still going to turn out great, just confused why the OG came in so low.

anyone?
 
I think the muscat juice sugar is factored in. Mine came out with a high abv. Brewed 6 gal in Feb and its still a little hot. I used dme instead of lme and my OG was 1.070.
 
I think the muscat juice sugar is factored in. Mine came out with a high abv. Brewed 6 gal in Feb and its still a little hot. I used dme instead of lme and my OG was 1.070.

Thanks I used LME. Glad to see I'm not the only one to miss TOG.
 
Krausen is finally going down a little. Had me concerned for a minute. I have it in one of the new Coopers fermentors which is holds somewhere between 7-8 gallons with no airlock, it came right up to the lid before going back down some....whew!
 
Something interesting I noticed...I was looking around Dogfish's website and under their Alehouse page I noticed they say Midas Touch is brewed also with thyme.

Midas Touch
This recipe is based on ancient findings. Brewed with barley, white muscat grapes, thyme honey, and saffron, it has the smooth dry body of a beer but finishes fruity like a fine white wine. 9% ABV

http://www.dogfishalehouse.com/beers.html

However, there is no thyme listed here as an ingredient. Anyone else notice this and if so have you tried adding thyme to this recipe? How much would you guess is needed?
 
I just wanted to confirm that this recipe calls for DME and NOT LME. I have 8 lbs of DME ready to go and I don't want to plop all 8 lbs in the kettle if LME is what's needed.

Also- My kettle is around 4 gallons. It should be okay to do the recipe with 3 gallons then add 2 gallons of water to the wort?

Thanks
 
I just wanted to confirm that this recipe calls for DME and NOT LME. I have 8 lbs of DME ready to go and I don't want to plop all 8 lbs in the kettle if LME is what's needed.

Also- My kettle is around 4 gallons. It should be okay to do the recipe with 3 gallons then add 2 gallons of water to the wort?

Thanks

I'm pretty sure the recipe is for LME. If you look back at one of my previous posts I used LME and even though the final gravity is lower than what is listed, if you then add in that from the muscat addition I pretty much nailed it dead-on.

I ended up with a much dryer product than the real Midas. My final gravity was lower than the 1.026 target and I ended up with about 11.2% ABV (after carbonation). Carbonation was slow. I suspect this is due to the 1056 yeast being at it's upper limit of 11%. However, after two months in bottles the carbonation is sufficient. It is good but definitely not the authentic Midas. Most notable are the aroma differences. I suspect since mine fermented more completely a lot of the aroma compounds are gone.

Anyhow, I definitely recommend using LME. I'll definitely try this again some day but I need to first figure out how to keep it from fermenting completely. I suspect short of buying lots of equipment to filter out the yeast and then force carbonate, I need to find a yeast with a lower attenuation or one with an upper ABV limit around 9%.

Good luck!
 
I used LME as well. My OG was 1.058, left it in the primary for 4 weeks, racked to secondary last night (just because I'm short on bottles at the moment). Checked my FG and it's 1.006. Tasted pretty amazing though. A little different from the original but still a good brew. Not sure why my numbers are so different than the target, followed instructions perfectly. Still turned out good..
 
Welp today I'm gonna put the concentrate into the fermenter, let's see what happens. Had a minor leak through the airlock a few day ago. Tells me I'm on the right track.
 
I bottled mine today, FG was 1.006. I missed all my numbers, but from the gravity samples I have tasted this is going to be one down right amazing beers. I've had the original and so far I like mine more :)
 
Nice, when it carbs up you should post a picture. Mine seems like it is going to be MUCH darker than the original.
 
Here's mine!

Midas_Touch.jpg
 
At first I kind of hated it, but now (8 months later) it's delicious. It ages very well. :)
 
After reading some feed back, I brewed a little diffrent.

4 lbs of 2 row
4 lbs of Malt Exctract
1 oz chinnok hops
1 qt Fresh concentrate Concord Grape juice
2 lbs of Honey
Container of Saffron threads
Wyeast American ale

OG 1.068
FG 1.004
8.37 abv

The standard brew requirements, boiled hops for 60 min. At end of boil added 10 threads of Saffron.

On second day of fermentation added Grape juice, and the rest of the Saffron(in the container).

When I transfered to secondary, I pulled a 8oz of beer. WOW I drank several glasses full. This beer is too good even uncarbonated. I made a 6 gal batch and by the time I bottled I had 4gal left. My buddies that brew, also pulled off of the secondary.

This beer is one that You need to brew!

Note: after brewing this beer, I read "SACRED HERBS IN BEER" book and found that Saffron has tendencies to add to the drunkeness.

Also I bought my Saffron from Fred Myers or Krogers to some, it cost 17.99 for a 10th of an oz. San Fransico Bay Herb Co dist. it. When You see it You'll know by what I mean by container.

Cheers
 
Hello:

I was reading an interview of one of the Dogfish Head brewers and he said that to keep the saffron aroma they added it post fermentation to preserve the aroma. When I do this recipe I will add the saffron to the secondary and smell the results. I will attempt this brew in November so if anyone tries this before let me know if it improves the aroma versus adding the saffron to the boil. Thanks and good luck with your Midas. Here is the link to the aforementioned interview: http://www.brew-monkey.com/articles/interview.php?id=2

P.S. The interview also contains some insight into the brewing 60, 90, and 120 IPA's.
 
Going to be cracking one open this weekend just to "test the carbonation" lol...can't wait to see what it tastes like.
 
I'm drinking my first one now...it's a lot like wine, in fact if I didn't know I'd think it was a glass of wine. It's not bad, just different.
 
Age it for 6+ months and it will taste 100 times better, just like wine. Trust me I hated mine at first.
 
I was thinking about bottling mine today. It's been close to a month that it's been sitting in the secondary. How much time can a brew sit in a fermenter before you need to repitch yeast to achieve good carbonation in bottles? Also considering this is a high ABV drink.
 
I just came across this old thread. How did this Midas Touch turn out in the end? I like this beer and would like to brew it this weekend.
Thanks


QUOTE=cercueil;816737]Hello All,
I went through the forum and didn't see anyone post results if they made a Midas Touch clone from the recipe in Extreme Brewing. Mine is sitting in the secondary right now and I will definitely post the results in a few months when its ready. As you know it is always hard to get the exact recipe so here is what I was able to find:

8 pounds (3.6 kg) light malt extract - (I used liquid here which was a mistake because I didn't get anywhere near the OG stated in the recipe. I now realize after researching that LME is 20% water!)

2 pounds (900 g) clover honey - (I used a local Wildflower honey)

1/2 ounce (7g) Simcoe hops - (Homebrew shop didn't carry these so I went with another DFH favorite..Columbus)

10 Saffron threads - (My brother brought back some really good Saffron from Turkey)

Fermentation
White Labs WLP001 or Wyeast 1056 ale yeast. (I went with WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale Yeast thinking that the OG would be huge)

1 quart (1 L) White muscat grape juice concentrate - (No home brew shop had this so I ordered it from Northern Brewer - Alexanders Muscat Grape Concentrate)

Process was similar to mentioned above except that I put the honey in at flame out. My OG was 1.060 and I added the Muscat after 4 days. From what I read this will only add about .005 fermentable sugar. If my FG is about 1.015 the beer will only be about 6%. Although on the brite side I might not have to condition it for as long as a 9% beer.[/QUOTE]
 
By conditioning it now do you mean secondary? You don't need to do that. Put it in the bottles and store in a cool dark place and it will bottle condition for as long as you like. It takes about 3 months or so for that hot alcohol taste to start going down. What was your ABV?
 
This is how I did a 5 gallon all grain batch. I brewed it on April 18. I used 13 pounds of pale malt and mashed at 148F (I was worried about attenuation). I added .50 oz of Simcoe at 60 minutes and the 10 threads of saffron at flameout but did not add the honey in the boil. The O.G was 1.061. On the third day of fermentation I added ~2 pounds of mesquite honey (some was left int he bottom of the jar so it is less than that) and the 32 oz of Muscat grape juice concentrate. With this addition and the assumption of 2 pounds of honey I calculated 1.092 OG using beer smith to calculate the gravity of the honey (14 points) and I used the brix to caclulate the amount of sugar added (1.89lb sugar = 1.017 points)*.

I pitched a 2L starter of Wyeast 1056 and fermented between 18C and 19C for the first few days then dialed it in to 18.5C and 19C for the remainder of the fermentation. I transferred to secondary on June 7 and crash cooled it between 3C and 5C until today when I bottled it. The F.G. was 1.006. It had a noticeable honey aroma so I am looking forward to tasting it and sharing the results in a couple of weeks.

I wish all of you happy brewing and I hope you can enjoy your brews soon!

azoteman213

*To calculate the gravity contribution of the Muscat grape juice in a 5 gallon batch:

Since Brix is sugar as a percent by weight (or mass if you want to be accurate), it is important to note the weight (or mass) of Muscate grape juice being added and not the volume.

Can of Muscat grape juice contains 4lb

(32fl.oz/46fl.oz) * 4lb = 2.78lb

Since it is a (wt/wt%) you could use the pounds directly to find out the amount of sugar being added:

2.78lb * 0.68 = 1.89lbs of sugar

If you use BeerSmith and input this amount of sugar it should give you a S.G of 1.017
 
I did mine a bit differently. I added the muscat grape juice at flameout. I was concerned about the sterility since it was given to me by the owner of my LHBS in a glass bottle, so that is part of the reason for adding it in the boil but also because I was following the Brew Your Own recipe. I also added the saffron in the last 15 mins of the boil & added the honey at flameout. It tastes great so far but I'm letting it age in the keg for a while, maybe a month or so. I don't have the ability to cold crash so I had to just be patient & let the yeast drop out of suspension naturally.

After doing some more research, I will do it differently next time, much more similar to this technique. I read the article someone posted a link for on this thread where one of the Dogfish brewers said they add saffron in the fermentor for aroma more than flavor. I'm wondering how I'm going to do that..whether to boil it in a little water or just soak it in 95% ethanol for a few days to sanitize it. Also, I just listened to an old podcast interview of Sam Calagione on The Brewing Network where he says they add the honey during the whirlpool above 180 degrees. Since I'm not able to do a whirlpool since I use an immersion chiller, I think I will cook it in a pot on the stove for 45-60 mins around 180 since that's how long professional breweries typically whirlpool. Sam also says they add the muscat grape juice a couple of days into the fermentation. So next time I'll also get one of the sterile cans of muscat grape juice to do that.
 
I tasted a 12oz bottle yesterday (one day short of two weeks after bottling). I heard a little hiss when I opened it, but it poured flat. It did not have much aroma, but I am hopping that will change once it is carbonated since it did have a strong honey aroma at bottling time. I may have tasted it to cold, but it seemed very tame, not much bitterness or alcohol hotness and not much honey flavor even though I added the honey directly into the bucket along with the grape juice. I will say that this beer is strong: I could feel the alcohol sneaking up on me after half a bottle. I gave all the bottles a few quick turns to re-suspend the yeast and see if that helps the carbonation a bit and will taste another bottle in a week or two.

Happy brewing to all of you!
 
OK, I couldn't wait a week. I opened another bottle of this beer. This time, I let it warm up a bit before I drank it. I was wrong about the flavor. It definitively has some alcohol to it, maybe some bitterness but it is masked by the alcohol. I like the color of it. I nice golden hue like honey. The honey is definitively in the aroma (imagine sticking your nose in a jar of honey) I used mesquite honey instead of clove. Alcohol is also present in the aroma. It still is not carbonated (I roused the bottles to lift the yeast into suspension to see if that helps). At this point is more like drinking a liquor neat or a still mead more than it is drinking a beer, and, frankly, I wouldn't mind drinking them all just as is:). Has anyone else had any issues with carbonation or has anyone all-grained this and mashed at 149? What has your experience been? I have been mashing low obsessed with high attenuation, but I do realize that some styles benefit form a higher mash temp to get a little body and I am wondering if this is one of those styles. Thanks and happy brewing. Will update when they are finally carbonated.
 
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