Ice bath vs Submersion chiller

Im considering to build a submersion chiller from copper tubing. I´m not sure what the advantages over an ice bath is though?

I did some calculations on the area of an 25' copper tubing and my aluminum kettle. Turns out the kettle has a bit larger contact area. I still get the feeling an immersion chiller will be faster?

Oh and one more thing, i have easy access to snow most of the year. I live pretty far up north. Any good reason to spend on an immersion chiller?

Both!

The immersion chiller drops the wort temps down to about 100 degrees rapidly. I use the ice bath to help pull it down the last few degrees. Though, I am prb going to switch over to a recirculated system w/reusable ice blocks to replace the ice bath.

Cop Shoot Cop said:

Any good reason to spend on an immersion chiller?

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Yeah. Ice baths are a big PITA.

Your biggest problem with liquid cooling is developing local hot/cool spots. In either case, you have to keep the wort moving to keep hot wort in contact with the pot/chiller. With an ice bath, for good efficiency you would likely need to be agitating the chilling water as well to keep from having a hot spot around the pot. With an IC, you don't have to worry about a similar problem because the cooling water is moving constantly through the tubing already.

And of course, that's to say nothing about the fact that ice baths are in fact a PITA compared to an immersion chiller.

Due to the cold wet winter weather, I brewed my last two batches in my basement. Rather than purchasing the sink to hose fitting or running a garden hose in through the basement window, I simply placed my 11 gal kettle w/ 7.5 gallons of wort in the bathtub and filled the tub w/ 50 degree tap water. Sure it worked, probably took a little longer. I stirred the kettle and also stirred the cooling water in the tub. Changed out the water in the tub and let it sit for 4-5 hours or so till I was in the mid sixties.


Yea I agree w/ the above posters, Ice baths are a PITA especially done indoors w/ bagged ice etc. etc. However if I was brewing outside next to a snowbank and a kiddie pool full of ice water, I'm not sure I would bother w/ my I/C.
You will need a BIG tub and plenty of snow/water slush mix. With a smaller tub you will need to change out the cooling mixture often. Stir both inside the kettle and the cooling water outside of the kettle w/ different spoons of course.

It will absolutely work. An immersion chiller is probably more convenient but they are not labor free either.

If you want to try it go for it!

Oh also...If I had to bet money, i would venture that the snow / water bath would be faster than an immersion chiller as long as you keep agitating. An immersion chiller is using tap water at say 50 degrees versus the bath at 30 something. In an ideal world I wish I had a cold mountain stream running through my brewery, I would just set my kettle in and wouldn't have to hassle w/ my I/C.

Mike

Water quantity! To cool 5 gallons of 212F water to 80F, you'd need 20+ gallons of 50F water in a bath (or somewhat less, considering the cooler water is denser), or 10+ gallons of 20F ice. Why? The water won't rise above 80F unless you change the water. With an immersion chiller, the coolant water rises almost to the temperature of the wort, allowing you to use considerably less.

I have been using an Ice bath ever since I started. I didn't want to pay the money to buy a chiller but since every batch I have made has extreme chill haze from the lack of temp drop, I have decided to buy one at the end of march.

I take all of the tupperware containers I have and fill them with water and throw them in the freezer the night before I brew. I also empty my ice maker into a walmart bag and set it inside the freezer, so it can make more. Then while brewing, I throw the ice in the containers, the ice in the bag, and the ice that was just made in the ice maker into the tub and fill with water. I have no problem cooling down 3 gallons from boiling to 80F in less than half an hour. How is that a PITA?

With the cost of copper now, I can't justify spending over 50 bucks for materials to build a chiller.

If you have 2.5 or 3 gallons a ice bath really does just fine. If you plan to go all grain this is a must. I started with a 25 ft copper... that would work in half the time as a ice bath; and now I use the 25ft as a pre-chiller to my 50 ft and can go from 200 to 75 in about 15 minutes..so to answer..yes it works much faster and better. To really make things quick a plate chiller or a pump to pump ice water into your chiller is the next step. Im happy with 10 to 15 minutes.:rockin:

I think if you are happy with 20 to 40 minutes for 3 gallons than great..but try that with 5.5 to 6 gallons for all grain users..we are looking at an hour to do the job and much more ice..for all grain it is as important as a large kettle and burner IMO.



jay

cdanprice said:

I take all of the tupperware containers I have and fill them with water and throw them in the freezer the night before I brew. I also empty my ice maker into a walmart bag and set it inside the freezer, so it can make more. Then while brewing, I throw the ice in the containers, the ice in the bag, and the ice that was just made in the ice maker into the tub and fill with water. I have no problem cooling down 3 gallons from boiling to 80F in less than half an hour. How is that a PITA?

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If you really find that whole process painless enough to stick with it, then more power to you. Personally that sounds like a big PITA to me, but it's obviously a matter of opinion - plus, living in an apartment with a typically packed freezer, making several gallons of ice each time I brew isn't feasible. With an immersion chiller it's as simple as dropping it in 15 mins before the end of the boil, then hooking it up to the sink/hose and letting it rip - no advance preparation, hardly any effort. And, even with my dinky 25'x3/8" IC I can chill 5 gallons to pitching temp in a half hour or less, especially if I recirculate.

I use both a IC and an ice bath. The ice bath works in as little as 20 minutes but thats only partial boils. Same with IC 20 minutes but its only for full boils

I fill my sink w/ ice from the ice maker in my freezer then add about 3" of the coldest water from my tap. I put the kettle in the ice water and slowly stirr the wort. Then I manuevere the kettle around the sink to circulate the sink water. (2.5-3 gal is less than 80F in 20 minutes.) Then I top off with 2-3 gal of refridgerated bottled water. I can be at 65F in about 25 minutes.

As for the IC I have a 50' chiller that knock the temp out really fast when I have the garden hose opened full bore. I usually try to capture the hot discharge water in my kegger tub. I can hit 80F in as little as 15 minutes.

The first time I saw this, I was shocked as I stood there almost the whole time. :rockin:

I do partial boils in the winter and full boils when its warm enough to do them outside.

The most important thing is to break the 140F barrier fast. Helps w/ clear beer and holds the DMS at bay.

cdanprice said:

With the cost of copper now, I can't justify spending over 50 bucks for materials to build a chiller.

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I just bought 50' of 3/8 tubing from coppertubingsales.com for $47 shipped. Costed me another $5-10 or so for rest of the materials from Home Depot.

I definitely found the chiller much faster and easier. I was putting the pot in the sink and filling it with ice and water, but because the sink wasn't deep enough to get up to the highest level of the wort, it ended up cold on the bottom and still rather hot at the top. Unlike boiling, convection is working against you when cooling. The chiller cut a couple hours to 10-15 minutes.

I did find one catch the hard way. I put the chiller in and let it boil a bit to make sure it didn't introduce any unwanted microbes. The problem was there was still water in the tubing which started belching out of the input onto the stove top as very hot water. Next time I'll make sure all the water is purged from the chiller before putting it in.

Question for you guys that use ice baths...

I've been using my immersion chiller with an ice pre-chiller in my 5 gallon full boil wort. Cooling down from boil to 80 degrees has been taking between 30-45 minutes. I thought about using an ice bath as well since my pot is probably keeping the wort insulated and preventing a rapid chill and cold break...

My question - if you use an ice bath, are you strictly siphoning the beer into your fermenters? Currently, I lift my boil pot and pour it into the carboy through a funnel and screen... I am worried if I use an ice bath that the dirty melted ice water would run down the side of the pot when I'm pouring and go right into my carboy. Drying it off as a method of sanitizing seems like a PITA.

I would really hate to infect a batch just because I tried to improve the chill time.

We whirlpool the wort and then siphon, but we have just poured it in. The bottom of our pot does not end before the edge of our fermenter, so any water from the bath would just hit the floor.

The bottom of the pot doesn't reach the funnel/carboy, but when I tip the pot, any liquid from the sides would run towards the top lip. I'll try it with holding the pot with a towel and keeping it as level as possible when I get to the end of the pour.

Anyone else with experience pouring into the carboy after an icebath?

HunterdonBrewing,

IMO the water from your ice bath should not contaminate your batch of brew if you are reasonably careful. I would remove the kettle from the ice bath and let it drip/dry on a towel for a few minutes prior to pouring into the fermentor. Jut use care and don't drip any stray water in your fermentor and you should be fine.

Mike

Wilsonbrewer,

Thanks - probably being overly paranoid, but reading about how much sanitation and cleaning is important, I bet you can see why...

Maybe I'm being too greedy - is a full 5-gallon boil chilling time supposed to be under X minutes for a good cold break? My process with the IC and pre-chiller takes about 30-45 right now...

HunterdonBrewing,

I think you are being overly paranoid again, if you are using an IC and a prechiller, you should be fine. Most don't go to that extreme. I have found that the most effective way around chill haze (cold break) is through kegging. Store the finished product cold and it will drop clear! Back in my bottling days, chill haze aggravated me, now that I'm kegging, no longer an issue.

Are you using whirfloc?

I'm a little curious (concerned?) about the OP's nick.

He hasn't posted in months. I don't know if he just stopped coming by or if he adopted a better nick.

InkPouchMan said:

Water quantity! To cool 5 gallons of 212F water to 80F, you'd need 20+ gallons of 50F water in a bath (or somewhat less, considering the cooler water is denser), or 10+ gallons of 20F ice. Why? The water won't rise above 80F unless you change the water. With an immersion chiller, the coolant water rises almost to the temperature of the wort, allowing you to use considerably less.

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With the age of this thread I don't know why I bother but,,,

This statement makes no sense. I do the ice bath in the tub. For 1, you don't want the water getting over, or even up to, 80* as the cooling efficiency suffers more the higher the temp of the cooling water. If the cooling water rises to the temp of the wort, it's not cooling it anymore.
For 2, if your not using ice, I assure you the cooling water will get above 80*.