Easy Extract Berliner Weisse Plan

I'm kicking around the idea of doing my first sour, a Berliner Weisse, and I just wanted to put together my plan/recipe to see if there are any problems with it.

For 5.5 gallons:

6 lbs. wheat LME (65% wheat and 35% pale malt)

Heat to ~120 F to dissolve DME.
Cool to 100F, pitch lacto
Keep at 95F-100F for several days to develop sourness.
Cool to yeast pitching temperature, pitch yeast.

Some questions & ideas that I have -

Lacto - What strain/sources of lacto provide good tart souring? I know that raw grain can be used to sour, but I am probably going to go with a clean strain for this batch. However, I have heard that some commercial strains don't provide great souring.

Hops - I don't mention hops because from what I understand lacto is inhibited by IBUs much over 10, and that the hops are really only needed to control unwanted bugs if you were doing a sour mash. Is this right?

Yeast - I've seen a lot of folks use just any old handy Sacc. ale yeast (e.g. S-05) as well as German ale and other Sacc. strains. I was kicking around the idea of using a fruity Brett strain like Brett. Bruxellensis trois, something that would complement the sour and would play nice in the acidic beer.

Ferment/Bottling/Conditioning timeline - I'm assuming at least a month in primary. My concern with bottling is my understanding that lacto tends to develop acidity over time (months to years), and I am wondering when is it safe to bottle. I know some people boil the wort prior to yeast pitch to halt lactic acid production, but I want to go for a mouth-puckering sour beer.

I have done exactly what you are proposing to do, with great results.

I used a commercial probiotic product from Walmart. The only active ingredient was lactobacillus Acidophilis (excuse my spelling). I think I used the rate of about 2 billion cells per gallon. I think I bought a container of 30 pills and used 12 in 5 gallons. Any source of lacto will do fine.

I boiled the extract/water, cooled and added to fermenter. When cooled below 100 F, I crushed the tablets between two spoons (sanitized with isopropyl alcohol). I siphoned the wort from the kettle so as not to aerate. Wrapped the fermenter in a heating blanket and kept it at 90+F for about 5 days.

After several days I tasted the wort (used a sanitized turkey baster to take a sample). Only when it was sour enough did I add the yeast. Once it starts souring, it goes quick (24 hours), but can take a while to start. I think I waited 5 to 6 days. Once the acidity is present, it will protact the wort, but it can take several days, so sanitation is very important with this beer.

Once the wort is sour, you can either boil it and add hops, then add yeast, or just add yeast and aerate as normal. The 3 batches I have done, I have just removed the heating blanket, aerated, and added yeast. I don't think hops are really needed for this style.

NOTES:

- If you use Lacto Acidophilis, do not add any hops before it has soured. I tried adding hops once and it didn't work. Other Lacto strains may be more tolerant.

- Once you have alcohol, the lacto slows or stops. You can bottle after 3 or 4 weeks with no issues.

- This is a very refreshing low alcohol beer, use about 1 lb LME per gallon (and that is probably on the high side for this style).

- Any yeast will do. However, you do need to pitch high. The acid environment is not good for the yeast, so you should pitch about twice what you would pitch for a normal beer.

Do you think a higher wort gravity would affect the lacto negatively? Something that might simplify my process (small pots in a kitchen) would be to do a partial boil of all the extract and maybe 2 gallons of water to sanitize it, cool it to 90F or so and then pitch the lacto in the kettle and seal it up. When soured, just return the pot to the stove, boil it, then chill it with make-up water and pitch yeast. It would completely eliminate the need to expose my equipment to lacto.

There might be an OG limit for Lacto, but I suspect it will do fine in a 1.072 wort (50% concentrated for a 1.036 wort). The main issue is that you will will be limited with how sour it can get, and it might not be enough. The Lacto will stop souring when the PH gets low. Then you will dilute it and reduce the sourness.

I don't worry about Lacto infection. Lacto is slow to start, and hops and alcohol tend to inhibit its growth. It is Brett and Pedio that I get concerned with.

Thanks for the help Calder. I placed the order for the wheat LME and WLP644 Brett. b. trois. I'll do the whole batch starting with lacto. While that is going I'll get a good Brett. starter going so it is ready to pitch when the sourness gets good.

Any experience using lacto from yogurt whey? We use plain cultured yogurt a lot and have plenty of whey that would otherwise go down the drain.

As there are no hops I can do this in my sunny shed which is nice and warm. I'll probably get a new primary and racking equipment dedicated to sours and keep it out in the shed away from my "clean" brewing.

Yogurt whey is supposed to fine. I've never tried it.

Well, I started the lacto today. After some reading and thinking, I decided to start 1/2 of the batch on just lacto started from grains, and I'll blend it with the remaining 1/2 batch done with the Brett. B. Trois.

I put 2.5 gallons into a pot, heated it up to about 120F, added 2.5 lbs of wheat LME and dissolved it. When it cooled to about 115F I added 2 cups of crushed 2-row in a nylon hop bag. I sealed the pot up with tape and wrapped it in a towel and put it out in my shed (now about 95F due to the heat spell we're getting). I am going to let that ride for several days.

I know some people boil their lacto batch when the sourness gets about right, but since I am mixing the batch, I am wondering if I should let both batches ferment out, then mix both while both are alive and let them duke it out over the scraps. I think I will need to check out how sour the lacto gets and then decide what to do then.

I am going to buy a food grade bucket at the box store tomorrow and make a dedicated sour fermenter for this, then I'll get the Brett. half going tomorrow. I think this will work well as the Brett. won't be fighting the lacto.

If you have a heterofermentative Lacto in there you will need a vent as it gives off CO2. If it is homofermentive id doesn't produce CO2. However, there are probably a lot of different bugs in the grain, and at least one of them will probably produce some gas.

I've never used grain to sour a wort, but I understand it can get a pretty rotten smell to it from clostridium (smells like puke). You might find you will want to boil that off. Just wait and see what you end up with.

24 hours later the grain sour batch has a flat pellicle on it with no bubbles. So far so good (?) I didn't open it to smell it or taste it, so I trust all is well.

I'm putting together the Brett. batch now. 6 lbs LME, 6 gallons total for an OG of 1.035.

EDIT: I decided to crack the lid and take a sniff. Nothing objectionable, smells mostly malty with a little sour milk essence right now.

Here is a bad picture of the pellicle through the lid. It looks like a thin layer of wax and covers the entire surface.

You tell us about a pellicle but attach no pictures? Blasphemy!

OK, the 3.5 gallon Brett. b. trois batch is in primary in my equipment room at about 73F ambient. From my reading I understand the Brett. does well in higher temps, but at cooler temperatures you get less horseblanket and more fruit out of it.

The 2.5 gallon grain sour batch is still in the shed which is about 95F. It probably was over 100F in there during the day - I put the pot under a dark towel in the sun so it should be plenty warm. We're getting a cold front coming through tomorrow so outdoor temps will be in the 70s, but the shed makes a good greenhouse and I expect that will stay in the 90s for several more days.

I just stumbled across BierMuncher's Berliner Weisse recipe - looks like I am not too far off the rails:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ive-got-bug-118242/

The Brett batch is cranking away pretty nicely now, less than 24 hrs in.

The grain sour starter is getting a little pukey smelling on me. Smells like hot parmesan cheese mixed with malt. I am leaving for the weekend so I am just going to let everything ride and see how it looks/smells on Sunday. Attached is a photo of the pellicle.

I opened up both the Brett. batch and the sour batch today.

The Brett. was down to 1.020. Intensely fruity - fruit punch fruity even. A tiny hint of acetic, but really nice.

The sour didn't smell any worse than last week, a little cheesiness. I gave it a taste and it was clean tasting and lightly sour. Negligible change in gravity.

I pulled 1-gallon from the Brett-only batch to ferment out seperately. I then racked the sour into the remaining Brett. to make a blended 5 gallons. There was no activity in the separate ferments, but when I blended them the airlock started blowing like I had mixed Mentos and Coke - crazy amount of activity. I'm not sure what caused it, but it was roaring literally 30 seconds after I put the lid back on, and it still is going at the same rate now two hours later. It's like the lacto and the Brett. are having a brawl.

I'll let it go for several weeks before I check in on it again. The little bit of cheezy funk makes me a little worried that blending them might be a bad idea, but from my reading I hear that's not unusual, so I went ahead and did it. We'll see how it goes.

I'm excited to see how this turns out. Welcome to getting bitten by the sour bugs (I am a terrible person for that one)!

Also, gotta love the fruity esters with Berliner Weisse! I've got one conditioning with some 1968, even if the Germans hate me for it.

The 1-gallon Brett-only is just starting to krausen. It is a pretty slow yeast all by itself. The fruit smells coming out of the airlock are amazing. It's hard to believe that is all the yeast's doing, but it's just unhopped wheat malt wort. I'm definitely going to repitch on this Brett when it has run it's course.

The Brett-sour mix is pretty quiet now. I'm not going to look. I doubt I'll see anything reassuring at this stage. I think I am just going to forget it and hopefully next year I'll trip across it and find that it is a wonderful Berliner weisse. Until then...

Hmmm...the Brett/sour seems to have stalled out at 1.012 (same reading on 1 October and today). If it were a Sacc. ale I'd bottle, but I know Brett should be able to chew this down to dry.

There is no pellicle and the beer is clearing. The taste is tangier then I remember from last time, less acetic and more lemony. No cheesiness anymore.

My 1 gallon all-Brett B. trois seems to be stone-cold dead. Still reading 1.012 for over a month at 80F, despite regularly rousing the yeast up. Nothing happening at all. It is VERY fruity.

My Brett/sour batch is similarly dormant. It might be down a point or two over the last month, depending on how I read the hydrometer. It is also very fruity, but also is getting quite lemony sour.

In retrospect I think I severely underpitched the Brett. I foolishly read the directions on the vial which said "sufficient for 5 gallons of beer". Apparently the rest of the world knows to make a starter with liquid yeast, but I didn't.

What do you think? Should I let it ride, or is a repitch in order?

Let it ride for a bit. I like my sours to take their time. That being said, I do prefer mixed fermentation because of the symbiotic nature of the bugs. Brett alone usually gets it pretty dry, but I find it plays better with others than by itself.