Scaling Down

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ChemBrew

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I'm thinking of scaling down my batches of homebrew.

My dilemma:
It simply takes too long for me to go through what I make because 1) I drink most of the beer that I brew and 2) I'm also an avid athlete so I usually limit myself to a few beers/week. But there are so many receipes, clones, and experiments, that I want to try!!!

My solution: Brew smaller batches more often. I'll start making 2.5gal batches instead of the usual 5gal. (I'll also look into hosting a few more beer tasting parties)

My questions:

1.) Will the extra headspace in my primary effect fermentation? (3gal in a 6.5gal bucket) Fermentation should still displace all the air with CO2, right?

2.) Should I get a smaller secondary, like a 3gal carboy? This seems to be the more crucial question. Will the extra headspace promote significant oxidation of my beer?

Thanks.
 
I often consider going 2.5, just so I can drink more of variety....experiment. I too am an athlete and am not pounding beers by any stretch of the imagination. My simple solution is the Mr. Beer 2.5 Gal keg. There are tons around, heck people probably want to give them away. I'm a primary only brewer, so it works for me. Enjoy your Home Brew.
 
I was just looking at your post about 5 mins ago and I ran across this on the BYO website. Looks like in July 07 they had an article about scaling down your brews, it might be worth back ordering that issue.

BYO said:
Small Scale Brewing Jul, 2007
Sometimes scaling down your brewing efforts can scale up your enthusiasm. Homebrew can be made in smaller batches than 5 gallons (19 L) and we give you the how, why and when to brew efficiently at a reduced scale.
 
I've been thinking about doing the same thing. I was planning on getting a 3 gallon carboy to use and primary only. This way I can start to a lot more experimenting and some AG batches on my kitchen stove in a 5 gal pot.

I have the July issue of BYO and the article is a bit light on the details. One of the things I did pick up from it was to use a refractometer to do all your initial gravity readings. That way you don't have to toss so much from the test jar.
 
Basic Brewing Radio has done two or three podcasts on small volume brewing. They call it 6 Pack Brewing. I watched the video podcast of them making a 6-pack porter and they used a small carboy for a fermenter.
 
Coastie: I watched most of the 6-Pack Brewing episodes from Basic Brewing Radio. This just helped to confirm my desire for brewing small batches.


My real question for everyone out there: Do you think I can get away with brewing smaller batches (2.5 gal) in existing brewing equipment (6.5 gal fermenter)??
 
Yes, I've done ferments where I've split 5 gallons in two 7 gallon buckets and used different yeasts.
 
ChemBrew said:
Coastie: I watched most of the 6-Pack Brewing episodes from Basic Brewing Radio. This just helped to confirm my desire for brewing small batches.

My real question for everyone out there: Do you think I can get away with brewing smaller batches (2.5 gal) in existing brewing equipment (6.5 gal fermenter)??
I think doing small batches is a great idea, if you enjoy the brewing process. Great way to experiment and build up a good variety of different brews.

There was a thread on this some time ago - generated some good discussion:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=26650

As for brewing smaller batches with existing equipment, you should have no problem whatsoever. The only exception to this might be if you plan to use a secondary, especially for an extended period of time (say 3 weeks or more). I would invest in a 3 gal carboy for a secondary, rather than using a 6 gal one. While actively fermenting, the CO2 that is generated will displace and eject any oxygen from your fermeneter, but in the secondary there isn't that supply of CO2. There is some there, and many believe it forms a protective layer above your beer to shield off oxygen. The truth, however, is that your CO2 blanket is still permeable to oxygen, and the larger the headspace, the less protective it will be. So in a small vessel, this principle likely works fine. But in say a 6.5 gal secondary filled less than half with beer, I bet oxygen will become a problem. Hope that made sense (sorry -- up too late last night and drank too much). :cross:
 
I've considered smaller batches as well. Especially for the high-gravity, high ABV beers I'd like to brew in the future such as barleywines and an imperial stout. Plus, as it stands now, I haven't met enough local homebrewers yet to share 5gallons of beer with.
 
The big problem with small batches is when you really really like one of them. It's gone way too fast. Then again, I'm thinking of a 5-6 hour all grain brew day. I'd be damned if I'm gonna put that kind of time into it and have it only be a couple six packs.
 
I agree, that would be alot of work for an AG batch, but I'm an extract brewer. When I find something I really like, I should be able to scale up without a problem.
 
I must be warped. I'm tryin to figure out how to get three 10-gallon brews done in the next ten days.

Seems like the only thing keeping you from doing more frequent 5-gallon batches, is bottling capacity. I can't imagine any time or effort savings in doing 2-3 gallons VS 5.

If that's the case, maybe put some effort into increasing your storage capacity. Any break in your brewing routine, and you'll be glad that you stowed away an extra case per brew.
 
BierMuncher said:
I must be warped. I'm tryin to figure out how to get three 10-gallon brews done in the next ten days.

Seems like the only thing keeping you from doing more frequent 5-gallon batches, is bottling capacity. I can't imagine any time or effort savings in doing 2-3 gallons VS 5.

If that's the case, maybe put some effort into increasing your storage capacity. Any break in your brewing routine, and you'll be glad that you stowed away an extra case per brew.
BM -- seriously man -- what the heck do you do with all that beer you brew? If you're drinking it, man you must have one bloated liver! ;) Seriously, I am REALLY curious now.

Anyways, I think the OP said that he doesn't drink a lot, and wants to build up a good variety of different beers. Making smaller batches would be a great way to accomplish that, particularly if these are quick and easy extract brews. I don't think he was looking to save time or effort by going smaller, though.
 
Greetings,

I've opened up this thread again with a question. To experiment with different yeasts, I'll be splitting my 5 gal extract brew into 2 vessels, a 5 & 6 gal carboy.

Q1: How long can the primary endure theoretically? I know what conventional wisdom says. How about experience. Who has gone the distance - over 4 weeks? If so, what quality? ( I have 2 kids under 2, so bottling is never scheduled)

Q2: Is it worth secondary in the same vessels to remove it off the trub or simply commit to the possible longer primary? I know there is a potential contamination issue from the oxygen in the head space.

Q3: Can I use dry yeast that has been in the fridge since the early fall? Expiration date is way in the future.

I'm looking forward to the yeast experiment, actually excited to see the different tastes. I'm just trying to get some opinions before I commit to it. Thanks!
 
Split the beer and leave them in the primaries longer.

No need to secondary, unless it's a huge beer that needs extended (5+ weeks) conditioning time.

Lots of folks forego transferring to a secondary and let the primary do all the work.
 
Maybe you should go to Lowes and buy the 3 gallon jugs of water there that are in teh PET bottles. They are like 5-6 bucks and you can still keep your buckets open for the ocasional large batch of something you really like or goes fast.
 
If cost isn't an issue, you could always keep making 5 gallon batches, and start designing labels in your free time. Once you have some great labels and interesting brews, you can start making beer "gift baskets" to take over to friends houses when they do dinners or to family gatherings.
 
I share most of mine, I am lucky if I get to drink 1/3 of a batch... Its ok though, I enjoy making it as much as drinking it (not the $ part though...) and I like introducing different beer to people. The less people drinking bad mass-produced beer the better. So if you don't want all your beer in a 5 gal batch, send some to me.
 
Mirilis said:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=88108-45903-3GSPRINGU&lpage=none

Heres the link to the bottles im talking about. Once you use the water.. either drinking or brewing.. you basically have a 3 gallon better bottle.

Mirilis,

I really like the Lowes Better Bottle idea, really good idea. Do you have any idea what stopper it takes? Also, have you used this bottle before with success. I actually need bottled water where I live (chloramine) so this would work out perfectly. As I stated before, I'm big on the secondary due to unpredictable life with kids. Thanks a ton.
 
I was gifted a 10 liter demi-jon for Christmas, which is roughly 2.65 gal. I just did a small batch for the first time, primary in a 5 gal, then I'll secondary in the 10L. I agree that the headspace should be fully displaced even in your 6.5gal. Once vigorous fermentation is underway, and you don't remove the airlock until you want to transfer it, should be no prob. The only hang up is that the hop oils from the krausen aren't expelled and barely cling to the sides. Maybe I'll filter as I transfer to secondary. Try to find a 10L demi-jon or carboy it should be perfect for what you're thinking about.
 
I brew 12 to 24 gallon batches and it seems to dissapear with ease. I share a lot of it with friends but mostly family. I think the best solution is more storage capacity and not less batch volume. Beer needs aging and it does not get aging if you go from fermenter to mug. Bottle and keg more is the answer for me. That means I don't have to brew as often and have beer on hand for whatever comes up. I believe that is what Biermuncher does.
 
WBC said:
I brew 12 to 24 gallon batches and it seems to dissapear with ease. I share a lot of it with friends but mostly family. I think the best solution is more storage capacity and not less batch volume. Beer needs aging and it does not get aging if you go from fermenter to mug. Bottle and keg more is the answer for me. That means I don't have to brew as often and have beer on hand for whatever comes up. I believe that is what Biermuncher does.

I'm in this boat too. I usually brew 20 gallons at a go, and never run out. My big chest freezer holds 6x 6.5g carboys or 13 kegs. My little one holds 6 kegs. I always have three on tap in the kegerator. Life is good.
 
postman said:
I really like the Lowes Better Bottle idea, really good idea. Do you have any idea what stopper it takes? Also, have you used this bottle before with success. I actually need bottled water where I live (chloramine) so this would work out perfectly. As I stated before, I'm big on the secondary due to unpredictable life with kids. Thanks a ton.

I havnt used them becuase im not trying to scale down, im actually trying to scale up.. 5 gal just isnt cutting it.. i run out constantly... i drink about 60% of it but i like to have people come over to share whats on tap that particular weekend.

Go here.. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=56936

and you will find some good info about plastic water bottles.. theres even a pic of one guy using one he got at lowes.. but i believe he put a carboy cap on it instead of a stopper.
 
Go for the smaller batches. I would buy a 3 gallon carboy for the secondary-- $15. I've done lots of scale down recipes with my 5 gal. carboy as the primary and the 3 gal. as the secondary. I have an apt. and only drink a few a week so this has worked really well.
 
postman said:
Mirilis,

I really like the Lowes Better Bottle idea, really good idea. Do you have any idea what stopper it takes? Also, have you used this bottle before with success. I actually need bottled water where I live (chloramine) so this would work out perfectly. As I stated before, I'm big on the secondary due to unpredictable life with kids. Thanks a ton.

I've used these bottles before with a stretchy carboy cap.
http://undergrounddigital.com/fermentinghardware.htm (carboy cap red rubber).

You can also take the cap that comes with the bottle and drill a hole. The material (there's a little clearish plastic insert in the center of the cap) is soft enough that it forms a decent seal if the hole is slightly smaller than the airlock/tube.

Neither the more common 6.5 gal or 3/5/6 gal caps with the two ports fits, one is too big, the other too small.

The other problem is the the bottles have lots of little crevices in the bottom that are a pain in the ass to clean. I used to brew with the water in the bottles so I just used the bottles once as carboys and recycled them.

I also brew 2.5 batches mostly for the same reason. I'd rather brew more batches and experiment with different beers and I can't drink the results of the experiments fast enough. Brewing smaller batches means brewing more often, which also helps me learn and improve faster. I really like dialing in my process and variables so I can recreate recipes each time and get repeatable, predictable results, and brewing more small batches helps with that too. Also, there's less commitment per batch so I'm freer to try more extreme methods and ingredients. If the results aren't good, I'm dumping (but probably still drinking :D) half as much crappy beer. I have run into the problem where I've made a batch that I really like (or rather my girlfriend really liked) and had it get consumed before I could make more, but in those cases I just make a bigger batch of that recipe next time.
 
reshp1,

I'm glad you've had success with the small batches. Also, not a bad idea to use the bottles and chuck them. Even still, perhaps a 3 gallon glass is not a bad investment. My brew day is approaching, so I'm getting stoked to try my two yeast experiment. Seems like we're on the same wavelength, brew often and split the batches for variety. Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely report back to this thread once my experiment is over. Peace
 
Why on earth would you want to scale down? More beer is better!!! All you have to do is store it until you drink it.
 
WBC,

Scaling down doesn't mean scaling back! I simply plan split the batches at this point to experiment with different yeasts. I do also consider smaller batches brewed more frequently so I can see more of a variety of beer. More batches = faster learning & more variety of beer. Pretty sound philosophy. Enjoy your Home Brew, however large your batch. Peace
 
WBC said:
Why on earth would you want to scale down? More beer is better!!! All you have to do is store it until you drink it.

It's a question of throughput though. There's more coming in (brewed) than going out (drank). I'm lucky enough right now that I find a chance to brew once every couple of weeks. I can't possibly drink a case a week, maybe back in college, but I'd fricking die if I did that now. A twelver a week is much more reasonable. It's not like I don't have the ability to scale back up if I don't find time to brew as often later on, rest assured, I will be in no danger of running out of beer. :D
 
Ok, I rest my case. Peace. I just thought you might start to bottle some of it so you have a nice assortment to share and enjoy.
 
WBC,

Your inventory is very impressive, the variety outstanding. 36 years of home brew, I'll tip my hat to you anytime, regardless of your batch size. Peace.
 
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