Just try leaving it in the primary 3 weeks or so. It will be clear. You can also warm the fermenter up a few degrees 70 Max for the last couple days. This will allow the yeast to clean up after itself.
Secondary Fermentation - To Rack or Not to Rack
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Make a decocted doppelbock and try to let it ferment/lager for 6 to 8 months in that primary vessel. Or try doing a lightly hopped pils or lite lager for 2 months.
Kai just started brewing pilsners and lite lagers and every little flavor flaw comes to the forefront.
Hey, I bet if you threw enough hops into a brew, you could pee in it and wouldn't know the difference between good and off flavors.
Brewing ales and keeping them on the trub for a few weeks then racking to a keg or into the bottling bucket isn't what is considered a long period of time or anything new. we cold conditioned ale right in the primary back before revvy ever started brewing. Denny will vouch on this procedure from the old HBD days
I used 1 lb of flaked corn and some irish moss finings. The total grain bill was about 10 lbs including the corn. I have not yet lowered the temperature below 65 F. Would cold crashing help this beer get clearer?
AnchorBock
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Sorry to dig up a month old thread, but I have a question that I didn't see answered in this thread. I have my first batch in primary (sierra nevada clone). The kit I got says to rack to secondary after about a week (which would be in 2 more days), but after reading this thread I was leaning more towards leaving it in primary for 2-3 more weeks and then bottling. I used pellet hops and did not strain them out so there was/is some sediment from those, would that be reason enough to rack to secondary or will the pellet hop leftovers not effect the taste/clarity of the beer in a negative way? It's the first batch so I'm not that worried about clarity, but I really want a good tasting beer.
IMO from what I have learned and actually tried, I leave my stuff in primary for 3 weeks....granted my fermentation temps are pretty consistent. I ferment in sanke kegs which really shoudn't matter. At day 19 I add gelatin and cold crash @ 35* for days. I rack into cornies and wait the rest of the time. Cold crashing is the most important in order to deop the proteins and make a clear beer
Sudz
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Based on my last batch, I'm a convert.
I let things sit on the primary for about three weeks. This was the clearest brew I've ever made and I too use hop pellets.
I can control my temp which does permit me to cold crash @38 degrees for a couple of days, then add gelatin, permit to sit for a few more days, and bottle.
Now, I haven't tasted the conditioned results but based on what went in the bottle, this will be a fine tasting brew...
I let things sit on the primary for about three weeks. This was the clearest brew I've ever made and I too use hop pellets.
I can control my temp which does permit me to cold crash @38 degrees for a couple of days, then add gelatin, permit to sit for a few more days, and bottle.
Now, I haven't tasted the conditioned results but based on what went in the bottle, this will be a fine tasting brew...
hate to bring this dead horse back up, but I was wondering how the no secondary stands for big beers aka RIS's, Barley Wines etc. When directions for kits call for aging of 4 months, is NOT racking to secondary also "ok"? Great thread though.
JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
I think you're likely to get a range of opinions on that one. Autolysis may be less of a worry than was thought in the past, and the effect may not always ruin a beer, but it does exist. How long it takes to have a noticeable effect and how negative that efffect is depends on a lot of different factors, such as yeast strain, yeast health, pitching rates, beer style, etc. My personal choice is to primary only most of my beers, but I'll still use a secondary if it's going to sit for longer than 8 weeks. I've been happy with the results so far, but YMMV.
Another thing to consider is equipment. Assuming you have a secondary that is smaller than a primary, and you want to age for 4 months, unless you have tons of carboys sitting around you will not be able to brew if you don't free up the primary. For something you plan to age for a long time, moving to a secondary means freeing up a primary for a future brew.
I got a secondary as part of my gift set but rarely use it so I'm in the camp that doesn't see an overwhelming need. But if I were to age something for months I would definitely look to use it so I could free up my primary.
gillhamms
New Member
To go back a few post...
Why would you decide to use a secondary when adding Oak vs say, dry hopping? What about crushed mint? Would the addition of either of these require a secondary carboy when the beer would only be in the secondary for 7-10 more days before kegging?
I usually skip the secondary, but wonder if I shouldn't in these cases. The mint and the oak are going in different beers.
thanks!
Why would you decide to use a secondary when adding Oak vs say, dry hopping? What about crushed mint? Would the addition of either of these require a secondary carboy when the beer would only be in the secondary for 7-10 more days before kegging?
I usually skip the secondary, but wonder if I shouldn't in these cases. The mint and the oak are going in different beers.
thanks!
Johnnyooze
Active Member
I usually rack to secondary, but I have a Light american ale style in the primary now that i think ill leave in for 3 weeks and then bottle. Ill see if i can tell any difference from the batch thats about done bottling now. Interesting read...
Have been reading this and related threads for some time now, and have finally drunk Revvy's Kool Aid - or maybe it was Sweet Stout. I'm going to retire my secondary for awhile, switching approach to primary for 4 weeks or so and then bottle. So here's my question - I know that the same stuff that settles out in the primary will settle out in that extra time in the primary, but with all the extra trub and yeast cake at the bottom of the primary, any suggestions when siphoning to be sure I don't draw gunk into my bottling bucket? I want my beer to be as sparkling as Revvy's!
Sudz
Well-Known Member
I've started sitting in the primary for the full schedule and had your concerns initially. What I do is make extra brew and stop the siphon before it starts to pull in trub. Wasting a half of gallon makes a big difference in keeping things pure and the cost or effort to make an additional 1/2 gal is nil.
I've done this for the past four batches and honestly can't see a difference between the secondary process or primary only.
There may be other reasons for using a secondary but I haven't seen it. I was also cold crashing with gelatin for a while and now I just cold crash. So I have had two things going on over the same period but the results are undistinguishable from my prior process. Had there been a difference, I wouldn't have been able to say which change was responsible but since there wasn't a notable difference, I can conclude neither process change had a negative effect.
Unless or until I learn otherwise, I'm adopting the primary only for modest brews and dropping the gelatin.
I free hand my siphon to help keep the yeast out of the keg. I hold the end of the siphon just under the top of the beer and go down with it. The only time it touches the bottom is for the last couple inches.
jimbrew_jr
Member
I am in the process of brewing my first batch of beer. I have a 7.8 gallon Primary Fermentation Bucket, and a 5 gallon glass carboy. In my excitement I initially followed Papazian's advice and only waited 3 days to rack from bucket to carboy.
After reading alot on this thread I realized that not only did i rack wayy to early but I may not need to rack at all. My question is if racking is done prior to the completion of fermentation won't there still be enough yeast present in the racked beer to get the same benefits as leaving in the primary? (there may be no benefit to this and the risk of O2 exposure)
OR are the two best options not to rack vs racking after 1 week(about the completion of fermentation)?
My beer has continued fermentation and developed a new yeast cake. I plan to bottle after 3 weeks.
My apologies if it is not proper etiquette to post on a thread from 2009
After reading alot on this thread I realized that not only did i rack wayy to early but I may not need to rack at all. My question is if racking is done prior to the completion of fermentation won't there still be enough yeast present in the racked beer to get the same benefits as leaving in the primary? (there may be no benefit to this and the risk of O2 exposure)
OR are the two best options not to rack vs racking after 1 week(about the completion of fermentation)?
My beer has continued fermentation and developed a new yeast cake. I plan to bottle after 3 weeks.
My apologies if it is not proper etiquette to post on a thread from 2009
Sudz
Well-Known Member
You should be fine.
The debate on whether or not to secondary will point out that racking is optional. But if you rack, just insure fermentation is complete which is typically done by checking the FG against the recipe notes. Just because the bubbling has appeared to stop doesn't always tell the tale.
Racking early doesn't actually do anything other than lower yeast count, waste your time and effort, and insert added potential for infection.
Chalk it up to a harmless learning curve "oops".
The debate on whether or not to secondary will point out that racking is optional. But if you rack, just insure fermentation is complete which is typically done by checking the FG against the recipe notes. Just because the bubbling has appeared to stop doesn't always tell the tale.
Racking early doesn't actually do anything other than lower yeast count, waste your time and effort, and insert added potential for infection.
Chalk it up to a harmless learning curve "oops".
planetscott
Well-Known Member
If you exercise proper techniques, there should not be any concern of contamination or aeration. If you want drinkable beer, buy a case of Yuengling. You're this close to making a better beer, so why not do it?
mporter
Member
So I'm no expert by any stretch, but I do know that doing a secondary fermentation has helped yield some better beers for me, so I always do it. Right? Wrong? Yes, no, maybe, can you repeat the question?
I typically always do five gallon batches, partial mash in the past, all grain now. I go with a blow off hose with the primary (glass, 5G), then go to an airlock when the krausen stops pushing out. After fermentation slows, I move to the secondary (glass, 5G) with an air lock and keep it in the idea temp for the yeast strain.
Seems to work for me. Less trubb at the bottom to deal with when kegging from the secondary in my opinion, and the keg seems to have quite a bit less stuff that has settled out when I clean it.
I typically always do five gallon batches, partial mash in the past, all grain now. I go with a blow off hose with the primary (glass, 5G), then go to an airlock when the krausen stops pushing out. After fermentation slows, I move to the secondary (glass, 5G) with an air lock and keep it in the idea temp for the yeast strain.
Seems to work for me. Less trubb at the bottom to deal with when kegging from the secondary in my opinion, and the keg seems to have quite a bit less stuff that has settled out when I clean it.
MinneBrewer
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So, after reading the posts about primary only I'm going to give it a try on my next batch- Heck if it is easier and has the potential to make better/clearer beer why not?
My question is- what would be preferable for my primary? I have both the 6.5 gal plastic bucket and a 5 gallon glass carboy.
I'm leaning towards the carboy because of the less headspace thing and the added enjoyment of looking at the beer every once in awhile.
Opinions?
My question is- what would be preferable for my primary? I have both the 6.5 gal plastic bucket and a 5 gallon glass carboy.
I'm leaning towards the carboy because of the less headspace thing and the added enjoyment of looking at the beer every once in awhile.
Opinions?
nubrewer82
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IMHO ... and I AM saying humble... I would go with the bigger container for primary. I always find it a pain to deal with even a blow off that leaks yeast/krausen into the blow-off container, much less having to keep swapping airlocks and clean the mess up when it ferments over.
If you have the larger container, why not just use it for primary? You can then use the smaller glass carboy for secondary (if adding fruit or something) or you can use it to do a smaller batch of something else.
Keep in mind this is assuming you're doing 5+ gallon batches. Just my 2 cents.
If you have the larger container, why not just use it for primary? You can then use the smaller glass carboy for secondary (if adding fruit or something) or you can use it to do a smaller batch of something else.
Keep in mind this is assuming you're doing 5+ gallon batches. Just my 2 cents.
cooper
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I agree, a person can use the bigger container for the primary as there will be lots of C02 being produced to push out any oxygen in the container. But, if a person was going to do a secondary, they'd want as little head space in the container as possible because there is less C02 being produced and you want as little oxygen as possible in the fermenter.
dannylerch
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Why not just tie a microfiber hops bag to the end of the siphon? That will certainly prevent any yeast cake from entering a bottle or keg.
I've only done a handful of brews. They've all been great. The first brew I skipped secondary because I wanted to bottle before I had to leave town. (I was visiting my pops for 2 weeks.) The brew turned out great, I was careful with the syphon and I hardly had any yeast cake issues.
I'm an avid cook and am really getting into home brewing. I know as a cook I trust my instincts. Most cooks don't even measure quantities yet they make fabulous meals. That comes with experience and intuition on what steps and ingredients give you what flavors you want. It also puts your own spin on things.
Now with all the extra precautions we all take to keep everything sanitary, secondary fermentation always seemed like a risk and not necessary. I've done it both ways, and I prefer a long primary. Now here is a newbie question. I currently have a Dark Choc-lately Irish Stout with some specialty grains that is in primary. This is an extract/specialty grains hybrid not all grain. Most of the talk has been about beers you can see through. Does this skipping the secondary period apply to stouts and non all grain brews as well?
I plan on waiting 3 weeks, priming the primary container and just putting a microfiber hops bag on the end of my syphon, or just use a strainer like mentioned before. I'll carefully stir the wort so I don't scrape the yeast on the bottom with the stirrer. Sound good?
I've only done a handful of brews. They've all been great. The first brew I skipped secondary because I wanted to bottle before I had to leave town. (I was visiting my pops for 2 weeks.) The brew turned out great, I was careful with the syphon and I hardly had any yeast cake issues.
I'm an avid cook and am really getting into home brewing. I know as a cook I trust my instincts. Most cooks don't even measure quantities yet they make fabulous meals. That comes with experience and intuition on what steps and ingredients give you what flavors you want. It also puts your own spin on things.
Now with all the extra precautions we all take to keep everything sanitary, secondary fermentation always seemed like a risk and not necessary. I've done it both ways, and I prefer a long primary. Now here is a newbie question. I currently have a Dark Choc-lately Irish Stout with some specialty grains that is in primary. This is an extract/specialty grains hybrid not all grain. Most of the talk has been about beers you can see through. Does this skipping the secondary period apply to stouts and non all grain brews as well?
I plan on waiting 3 weeks, priming the primary container and just putting a microfiber hops bag on the end of my syphon, or just use a strainer like mentioned before. I'll carefully stir the wort so I don't scrape the yeast on the bottom with the stirrer. Sound good?
JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
Why would you stir the wort before racking it?
dannylerch
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to ensure my priming sugar has mixed well with the wort
JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
Most people mix the priming sugar and beer together in the bottling bucket or keg. Some people bottle straight from the fermenter, but they usually add the sugar directly to the bottles in that case. I've never heard of adding the sugar directly to the fermenter. I'd be afraid that the denser priming sugar solution would sink to the bottom and a lot of it would end up staying in the trub.
dannylerch
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I'll just transfer to a bottling bucket then. thanks!
crbrown25
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Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong, but i seem to remember reading that using something to strain the beer at that point in the process could possibly lead to oxidation. Something to consider.
The1Greenguru
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Thanks for the Info it has been a while for me guess I was in the time, we where taught to use secondary. After reading not sure any more I know one thing In life, there's not Just one way to skin a cat. So If you don't try_ you can't say it works or it don't work. And The beer I brew is the best to ME, LOL:rockin:
Righlander
Well-Known Member
oh no, not this topic again 
caioz1jp
Well-Known Member
The key to avoid this, and i found out the hard way, is to have the minimal height difference that will allow the syphon to run. If you run a slow and weak syphon you wont pull any air through the beer while being able to filter most junk. If the fermenter is too high compared to the collection vessel you will pull air through. I ruined an IPA becuase I had the secondary about twice the height i normaly syphone from and sure enough i had a problem with pulling air through.
No one answered this question. I am concerned about this as well and have even posted a similar question in another thread.
So, does someone NEED to rack to a secondary when using oak??
ceannt
Well-Known Member
I don't rack when adding oak cubes ..... just toss em right into primary
caioz1jp
Well-Known Member
On my cheaper beers i stopped racking to a secondary but i think i will go back to it. I seem to be picking up an u wanted sour in the beer. It is not terrible but it is something that i never had when using a secondary.
ChrisfromAbby
Well-Known Member
I think I'm not understanding something about the process.
My primary is a 40L soft plastic (probably LDPE) bucket with a snap on lid. The seal is NOT air tight - on purpose as I've always understood oxygen was highly desirable during primary. Hell, I stir my wine vigourously the first couple of days sometimes! I've had very few problems in 25 years in many batches of beer and wine with my routine of 3 to 10 days in the primary then racking to secondary. However, in trying extended time in the primary I've run into 3 infections in the last little while. The most recent I'm blaming on fruit flies getting in throught the lid.
Is my definition of a primary fermentation vessel different from those who advocate this extended time in the primary? Are you locking it down somehow? Are you using an airlock? Or are you using a similar methodology and I've just had some bad luck or a screw-up in sanitation?
Chris
My primary is a 40L soft plastic (probably LDPE) bucket with a snap on lid. The seal is NOT air tight - on purpose as I've always understood oxygen was highly desirable during primary. Hell, I stir my wine vigourously the first couple of days sometimes! I've had very few problems in 25 years in many batches of beer and wine with my routine of 3 to 10 days in the primary then racking to secondary. However, in trying extended time in the primary I've run into 3 infections in the last little while. The most recent I'm blaming on fruit flies getting in throught the lid.
Is my definition of a primary fermentation vessel different from those who advocate this extended time in the primary? Are you locking it down somehow? Are you using an airlock? Or are you using a similar methodology and I've just had some bad luck or a screw-up in sanitation?
Chris
Wish I would have read this yesterday. I just transferred my brew into a carboy yesterday to finish fermenting. Seems like most people here are recommending not to. Does this stay true for ingredient kits? The kits recommend secondary fermentation.
miguelhunt
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thanks guys.. been makimg wine for 35 years and today brewed my first beer. was hoping for an IPA using extract.. but after realisaing the crystal malt i bought for steeping was a 'dark' it now looks like i am brewing a begian speciality/old english ale at 6.3ABV with a IBU at 43.. so my next question was how long on the primary. ,,,. now thinks me will just leave in on the primary for a few weeks.
miguelhunt
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yeah ands I know you guys didn't invent beer BUT i am getting all my inspiration the States since in ther UK everyone seems to just wanna brew 1) everything in small batches 2) in plastic 3) copy beer styles from down the pub and 4) use beer kits... my next 6 batches will be extract then i will try all grain brewing.. also I am clearing my lounge/livimng room of all furniture si that I can build a brewery!!!!!!
miguelhunt
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ps i make 150 (English) gallons of apple wine a year ... lets see how I do with beer!!!
roger_tucker
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This topic is a religious war. I've read just about every opinion from no need for secondary, to rack off after the gravity quits changing, to wait until primary fermentation is complete, around four days. Actually contrary to what has been posted here this is what John Palmer suggests. I've seen the blurb about leaving is two to three weeks in the primary quoted in this thread out of context a few times, which is really why I'm posting.
Here the last two paragraphs of the Secondary or Conditioning Phase section with the section that I think has been taken out of context highlighted as well as the points where he recommend a secondary.
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2-3.html
Quite frankly, I don't know what the right answer is. I guess do what works for you. If your beer looks good and tastes good then you're doing it right.
Here the last two paragraphs of the Secondary or Conditioning Phase section with the section that I think has been taken out of context highlighted as well as the points where he recommend a secondary.
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2-3.html
Quite frankly, I don't know what the right answer is. I guess do what works for you. If your beer looks good and tastes good then you're doing it right.
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