240v 3 wire clarification

Alright. I'm finishing up my planning and purchasing phase of the the new ebrewery. I have a ebrewingsupply box coming, BCS control and a few other goodies. It will be a RIMS setup using 2 keggles.

My question is I'm adding another circuit to the house box and running to a GFI spa disconnect box. The circuit will be 50a at box with 120v on each leg and neutral. Then 6 ga to the spa disconnect. Out of the spa box will be 4 wire to the control box where it all gets divided up to pumps and elements. Using this guide https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/spa-panel-wiring-dummies-266751/

Am I missing anything? Or doing something shady? The only other thing I could think of is 50a GFI breaker at house box and bring 4 wires out and go straight to control panel. Is that safer?

If you are adding a new circuit I think you have to use four wires into the spa panel as well as out of the spa panel.... the two hot legs, neutral, and grounding wire.

I believe everything would be as shown in that picture of the spa panel, except there would be no jumper inside the panel from the neutral bus bar to the grounding bus bar, and your grounding wire from the main panel would connect to the grounding bus ba in the spa panel. I believe you also have to ensure the neutral bus bar is not bonded (not electrically connected) to the spa panel housing (on the assumption it's metallic).

Or is 4 wire even needed with the control panel design. See below.

http://www.ebrewsupply.com/designs/30a-BCS-2-Electric.pdf

Another option:

I have a 50 a 240 3 wire plug in the garage about 10 feet away for my welder that I could use. Never plan to weld and brew at the same time. I could run that to the Spa disconnect and take it from there. I would need to check that the bare wire in the 3 wire outlet originates from the neutral bus bar in the ouse bar. Correct?

whoaruss is correct. That photo is sketchy. Its sad folks are getting misinformed on this site on the proper way to do things. Plain & simple run 4 wires out of your panel, (spa disco or not) 4 wires to your equiptment. The one exceptions to that rule are for 3 wire dryers or ranges. An electric brewery is neither of those, so plain & simple its not allowed. Just because lord PJ photoshopped one into a photo doesn't make it the right by the electrical code.

any system that uses a neutral (120 volt load) in particular when pumps are involved require a dedicated neutral.

grandequeso said:

The last poster is correct. That photo is sketchy. Its sad folks are getting misinformed on this site on the proper way to do things. Plain & simple run 4 wires out of your panel, (spa disco or not) 4 wires to your equiptment. The one exceptions to that rule are for 3 wire dryers or ranges. An electric brewery is neither of those, so plain & simple its not allowed. Just because lord PJ photoshopped one into a photo doesn't make it the right by the electrical code.

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Don't have a problem with that. Plenty of space in the breaker box. I just don't see where the ground from the house box is used in the above schematic.

its there in the first diagram. Its not tied to the chassis of the spa disco (some spa discos are plastic.) Its not a integral part of the disconnect as the ground never opens or closes as the other conductors do when you flip the disco on or off. It might be a little easier to follow if the diagram showed you all the conductors coming in, then out of the disco as it would be in a real life application.

Second look at the diagram, the legend shows #14 ground wire. It should be #10awg to the elements and #14 to the pumps at a minimum. For up to a 60amp ckt #10 wire is good.

grandequeso said:

its there in the first diagram. Its not tied to the chassis of the spa disco (some spa discos are plastic.) Its not a integral part of the disconnect as the ground never opens or closes as the other conductors do when you flip the disco on or off. It might be a little easier to follow if the diagram showed you all the conductors coming in, then out of the disco as it would be in a real life application.

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Ok, ill bring 4 wires from house panel to spa. Pass the ground through the box and secure to the chassis of the brewery panel? From the diagram, it looks like it terminates to the chassis panel.

garbageman said:

Ok, ill bring 4 wires from house panel to spa. Pass the ground through the box and secure to the chassis of the brewery panel? From the diagram, it looks like it terminates to the chassis panel.

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The equipment ground (green) needs to be tied to all metal parts of your system. Enclosures, elements, kettles, stand, etc.... It is sized by the overcurrent protection of the circut. If you fuse down a tap, ground wire can also be downsized accordingly.

lschiavo said:

The equipment ground (green) needs to be tied to all metal parts of your system. Enclosures, elements, kettles, stand, etc.... It is sized by the overcurrent protection of the circut. If you fuse down a tap, ground wire can also be downsized accordingly.

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From the panel chassis ground, the ground gets passed to elements, pumps and BCS. Do you run a separate ground wire to the kettles from the panel? I assume the RIMS needs to be grounded also? I have seen a lot of e brew setups, but not a lot with grounds attached to everything.

the rims tube is bonded (to the grounding system) thru the element, which if properly wired has a grounding conductor ran with it.

Yes, I'm using a brewers hardware RIMS with thier element adaptor. It has a grounding screw in the adaptor. And if I do the kettles like shown is various threads, I should be passing the ground from element to kettle through the gang box.

Thanks, I think I have it now. Gonna go safe w a new 50a at house breaker to new 4prong outlet. Then through the GFI spa disco and into the control panel.

garbageman said:

From the panel chassis ground, the ground gets passed to elements, pumps and BCS. Do you run a separate ground wire to the kettles from the panel? I assume the RIMS needs to be grounded also? I have seen a lot of e brew setups, but not a lot with grounds attached to everything.

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Generally the threads of the element will bond the kettles. Some element methods do not insure a good bond (especially weldless). I like to extend the ground from a lug in the element enclosure to the kettle. If you are using kegs, the skirt is a great place to attach a ground lug. From there you can add a jumper to the stand. This is the best pic I could find:

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Thanks Isciavo, that's what I thought and I like the idea. I'm leaving propane behind and have built an indoor brew area with a workbench style setup. I'll keep grounds in mind as I finish the wiring. Hope to be test running in a couple weeks.

From this


To this

Both very nice. Good luck with the build.