I think I reached my limit.

I was really gung-ho to progress my brewing for the past 9 months. I did a few partial boil extracts, stepped up to full boils to practice for AG. I made some good beers with only one batch being sub-par. I brewed my first all grain two weeks ago and it's about to go into the keg. On that batch, I used my turkey fryer pot on my grill just like my previous 5 extact batches, cooled with an IC, and used either a hop bag or strained as I poured.

Today was the big day. I brewed my second AG batch but tried a few new things. The first was to use a keggle and a natural gas burner. Next, I put my DIY counterflow chiller to use.

Maybe it's just a combination of too many new things at once but I'm just exhausted from all the setup and cleanup. So, I'm kinda just venting, but I think I need someone to tell me that all grain is definitely worth the effort.

Some things I've noticed was cleaning a keggle is nothing like washing a pot in the kitchen sink. Also sanitizing prior to use, and cleaning afterwards makes CFCs a PIA. Not to mention regulating wort output temp is really tough when the tap is 50degrees.

I suspect this will get easier if I build a dedicated brew stand and start using a pump, but woah... long day.

I'm pooped, too. Long day of brewing. Helped a buddy brew a batch along with my own. Had to do a lot of scrambling to get a recipe in order, and just a long day, lots of cleanup. My wort chiller died (crack developed in the coil, fixable), thankfully he had his own. But, just a long day, it's usually a lot easier. Cleaned up the big mess, but still some more to do before work in the morn.\

Fun, but a long day. It's usually easier than this....

AG is the only way to go, relax, get into a groove... change is good, but don't make so many changes that you cannot zero in all of your procedures. You know this. I will go through all of the pains when I get my system up and runnin'

Pol

I feel you man. Today was my first time doing/using: full boil, Partial mash using my MT, Aeration system, and wort chiller (immersion). It took me all day, from around 10am to about 4 pm from start to cleanup. I've decided what I need is to brew one day, rinse everything and then clean the next day. It's just too much for one day for me, especially since I do all the cooking around here as well. So from now on I am taking a day off of work when I brew to help with the time involvement. I would figure that once you get your stuff down to a science though that everything will go much quicker.


Dan

I have not used my keggles yet, so I'm still doing 5 gallon batches of All Grain. I use the down time while mashing & boiling to do my cleaning & sanitizing. So far, it's not been a chore, but I'm using an immersion chiller.

Hang in there. It'll get better. The best part is when you taste the beer YOU made!

The Pol said:

AG is the only way to go, relax, get into a groove... change is good, but don't make so many changes that you cannot zero in all of your procedures. You know this. I will go through all of the pains when I get my system up and runnin'

Pol

Click to expand...

You know, I've told myself not to make too many changes at once, but some of them just come together. I could have used the keggle and reduced my task load by going back to extract, but it seems like a step back. I could have used my immersion chiller instead of the CFC, and I probably will in the future until I get a pump, but I had the CFC built for over two months already and the keggle's bulkhead made it possible to try out. Brew and learn. This batch better be knock-your-socks-off delicious.

Bobby_M said:

This batch better be know your socks off delicious.

Click to expand...

I have a weird feeling it will.

I haven't stepped up to the keggle yet, but I'm guessing its time start making bigger batches when I do. Seems more beer would make the long day worth it.

Now that I am brewing AG I noticed the same thing. instead of a couple hours to brew a partial boil extract batch it takes better part of a full day. Last Thursday I brewed my second AG batch and started at 1pm. I was not done and cleaned up till almost 8. I had fun but I did get tired of all the cleanup. I was thinking of making a CFC but changed my mind not only because of the hassle of cleaning it but also it only takes me 15 minutes to cool my wort to pitching temp, so why bother right? I do enjoy the brewing though. Drinking my swill better.

The days goes easier if you RDWHAHB.
I've kept away from gadgets that take extra work and cleaning.
Kiss.
I regularly brew in 4 to 5 hours.


It'll get easier as you get into a routine and YES it's worth it.

Orfy I am with you, KISS. But my last brew session I had to many homebrews and found myself getting careless.

the_bird said:

I'm pooped, too. Long day of brewing. Helped a buddy brew a batch along with my own. Had to do a lot of scrambling to get a recipe in order, and just a long day, lots of cleanup. My wort chiller died (crack developed in the coil, fixable), thankfully he had his own. But, just a long day, it's usually a lot easier. Cleaned up the big mess, but still some more to do before work in the morn.\

Fun, but a long day. It's usually easier than this....

Click to expand...

Sorry I skipped out on the cleaning . Didn't even occur to me, until I got home and started cleaning the few things I had, that you had a ton of stuff to clean up .

Next time we can do it at my place and I'll clean the mess. Bring the wife and kidlet.

I found that my second AG was much faster than the first. I sanitize equipment or clean it up during the small bits of down time I have. The only downside to AG for me is driving to SWMBO's grandparents' place to dump the grain in the woods.

evanmars said:

Sorry I skipped out on the cleaning . Didn't even occur to me, until I got home and started cleaning the few things I had, that you had a ton of stuff to clean up .

Next time we can do it at my place and I'll clean the mess. Bring the wife and kidlet.

Click to expand...

I left the house not long after you did; the bulk of it was done while you were chillin'. If my damn dishwasher worked, it's be all done by now!

ayrton said:

I found that my second AG was much faster than the first. I sanitize equipment or clean it up during the small bits of down time I have. The only downside to AG for me is driving to SWMBO's grandparents' place to dump the grain in the woods.

Click to expand...

I think this is key: You can gradually get gear out during various stages. Sanitize while the wort is chilling, and so on.

I also try to clean as I go as much a possible so you don't face a huge cleaning job when you're tired (and possibly drunk) at the end of the session.

I always try to get most of my setup done the night before, I crack my grain, fill my HLT and get all my false bottoms and plumbing ready to go. Then the day I brew I start early, while heating my strike water I sanitize everything that is going to need it. When it's mash time I get my hops out and measure them and do any thing that I might have forgot.
It usually takes me 6 hrs from start to finish to do a 10 gallon batch that's including clean up, but I enjoy the time it takes to do the brew it kind of relaxes me even though it can be exhausting. Just come up with a routine and RDWHAHB.

It gets easier when you get into a routine with it. Just hone your process and you'll find that you're not as rushed/frantic/tired as you used to be. If you can, get an interested buddy to come over and watch, learn, and help. Tell them there's a sixer in it for them in a month or so.

And if anyone's got the time and $$, I highly recommend a brew stand. My last brew day was the easiest, most relaxing I've ever had. We were never rushed and had 10 gallons done and cleaned up in less than 4 hours.

It'll help me out a lot, I'm sure, when it's spring/summer and I'm not hosing out keggles and stuff with 33° water while standing in a snowbank...

I think my jury rigged brewstand had a lot to do with the hassle but I think you're right about the weather. By the time I finished up last night, the nice fair weather turned to cold. I was hosing out the MLT and keggle with 50degree water in 40 degree air getting my pants and sneakers soaked. I'm glad our garbage cans are on wheels and picked up my the robotic arm truck cuz otherwise some sorry dude would be lifting sopping spent grains.

Anyway, I'm really thinking about never using a CFC ever again.

I'm really, REALLY, REALLY thankful that I hooked up the immersion chiller to the water and turned it on before putting it in the wort. A crack had developed in the copper tubing, so it was spraying water all over the place. Had I not turned the water on until after it was in the wort, I never would have noticed - at least until I noticed that I had ten gallons of uber-chilled, very dilute wort

Thankfully, Evan had hit chiller, which just *barely* fit into my keggle... oi... so if you DO decide to sell the CFC, you might have a buyer here...

the_bird said:

I'm really, REALLY, REALLY thankful that I hooked up the immersion chiller to the water and turned it on before putting it in the wort. A crack had developed in the copper tubing, so it was spraying water all over the place. Had I not turned the water on until after it was in the wort, I never would have noticed - at least until I noticed that I had ten gallons of uber-chilled, very dilute wort

Thankfully, Evan had hit chiller, which just *barely* fit into my keggle... oi... so if you DO decide to sell the CFC, you might have a buyer here...

Click to expand...

Was it a stress fracture on a sharp bend?

No, it was a crack along the length of the tubing - although given how I've abused that thing, it wouldn't surprise me if it was due to stress. I just kind of tossed the thing together one night without a lot of foresight or planning, there were parts that got kinked (it's the thin fridge coil copper). The plan has been to re-do it all along. The question I have is whether I should just patch that section or start fresh with new copper.

Of course, step one is that I have a stainless chiller that still needs some hose fittings, so I'll see how well that one works before doing anything else...

It usually takes me six hours to go from getting the equipment out to having it cleaned and put away. I do partial mashes in my kitchen with a 5 gallon cooler (usually 5-6 lbs of grain). Most of that time is just waiting and drinking beer... last batch involved drinking four homebrews, which is the best part.

I love my CFWC, it works like a charm. I don't think I'd love it so much though if I didn't have a pump. It would be a major PITA to try and use gravity to clean/sanitize. Without a pump an immersion chiller is the way to go, clean and simple. Although getting a pump would speed your brew day up a little bit and you could always looking at "upgrading" to a HERMS/RIMS setup........

EDIT:
Sometimes I forget we all don't use the same system when I post. Sorry for the confusion. I'm used to doing 10gallon batches and the way my system is set-up, it'd be near impossible to siphon through my CFC.
Nevertheless, if you have to move your kettle in order to use the CFC, an immersion chiller still seems like the way to go.

AG is an exhausting day, but two cases of great beer and satiating my my desire for processes is well worth it. RDWAHAH.

Another thing I was thinking is that I went to a Keggle with the idea that I would want to start 10 gal batches. The more I think about it though, I just don't drink (nor do my friends) enough to justify it. I'll just end up with a bunch of pairs of cornies filled over the long term (I know, I say this like it's a bad thing). But, a lot of the hassle I went through yesterday was more trouble for the same 5 gallon batch. If that batch was a 10g, which the equipment is capable of, I'd say it was not TWICE the trouble.


Hey, so now after a good night's rest, here's a positive. I nailed my mash temps on the first infusion using the advice I received after my first attempt. Threw 190 degree water into the cooler, it got to 170 pretty quick as the cooler sucked the heat. I added the grain and it settled at 154, right where I wanted it.

Craig5_12 said:

I love my CFWC, it works like a charm. I don't think I'd love it so much though if I didn't have a pump. It would be a major PITA to try and use gravity to clean/sanitize. Without a pump an immersion chiller is the way to go, clean and simple. Although getting a pump would speed your brew day up a little bit and you could always looking at "upgrading" to a HERMS/RIMS setup........

Click to expand...

I disagree. I've siphon fed through my CFC, and it works just fine. To sanitize, just boil a little extra water and feed it through the CFC via siphon (without running cold water through the outer channel of the CFC). With a little care (make sure the tubing remains filled with liquid at all times), you can keep the siphon action going during the transition from sanitizing to chilling.

Yuri, how high is your kettle when you're using the CFC?

I was able to get a flow with the inlet of the CFC dead even with the kettle ball valve while the water level was about 4" higher than said ball valve. The bottom of the CFC was about 2 feet off the floor. It was slow to start but once the chiller was full of water, it started pulling. It also helps to have tubing on the output of the CFC to the bottom of your receiving container which add additional weight (suction). Once I got to chilling my batch, I muscled the keggle up another 2 feet onto a shelf and it got the flow to something a bit more managable. It took about 15 minutes to get 5 gallons into the fermenter.

Side note, the CFC works too well at cooling. My wort was coming out at 58 degrees with a TRICKLE of 50 degree tap water flowing. I had to cycle the cooling water on and off. I suppose it will be idea when the tap gets up into the 70's in the summer.

My first AG batch was started at 2pm and finished at 1am. That's 11 hours, though in my defense, that included 1 hour of recipe creation, 1 hour of assembling the MLT for the first time (pics to follow), an hour of down time breaktime as I waited for SWMBO to come over and assist with the second batch. So right there, there's 3 hours that should've been knocked out of the process. That's 8 hours.

Also, I brewed two separate 5 gallon batches because I don't have a large enough brewkettle and I wanted two separate beers rather than 10 gallons of a single beer, so that added another 2 hours to the process. I didn't have to clean the kettle well between batches (just rinsed it a little), but it was still two hours that most people wouldn't have had to dedicate to the process. So that's 6 hours for a single AG batch.

And here's another thought. I did two and a half batch sparges. I started boiling my first runnings as I was mashing my second (half batch) of runnings which were subsequently boiled in my brew kettle for about 40 minutes. This way, I wasn't waiting for the second runnings to be collected before I could start heating my wort.

The third batch of runnings were ready about the time I finished boiling my first batch of beer.


I think I could do an all grain batch, with clean up, in under 5 hours if I had a hose handy (still too cold to hook mine up- pipes might burst in a cold snap). This compares favorably to the six hours that my first Extract batch took.

Live and learn, eh?

Yuri_Rage said:

I disagree. I've siphon fed through my CFC, and it works just fine. To sanitize, just boil a little extra water and feed it through the CFC via siphon (without running cold water through the outer channel of the CFC). With a little care (make sure the tubing remains filled with liquid at all times), you can keep the siphon action going during the transition from sanitizing to chilling.

Click to expand...

I also siphon through mine and I have it running pretty smoothly now that I have the hang of it. I use a copper racking, and my kettle sits on top of my wash machine to rack into a carboy on the floor. I put it on the wash machine so I could use the water hook-up from it during the winter, and I think I'll keep using it there.

Since I came here venting like a chick stood up on prom night, I thought I'd share some pics of said brew session from hell.

Here's the not-to-code temporary gas hose with QD.


These are what happens when you put the keg too close to a nat gas mutli jet burner:

A couple 2x4 shims and I was in business. Also got the MLT high enough to gravity right into the keg. Note the square tubular trailer axles to the right in the pic that i found on the curb which will become part of my new brewstand hopefully.



Hey, at least I proved that the diy hop filter works. PIA to clean out though. Maybe a couple hop bags will make this easier.

What, no video?



But seriously...I'm glad your setup worked, but damn that makes me nervous!


I'm sure it wasn't as precarious as it looks.

Cheese and Crackers Bobby, that's the most improvised AG rig I have ever seen. When I go to my Keggles (I have to wait till the brew hut is built), I'm going to get one of these for $119 and use my 10 gallon cooler for the MLT.



I will use a March pump with my ChillZilla though since this puppy is one level.

The secret to a relaxing brew session is to have things organized and have things that run unattended.

Lets break this down a bit. The brewing process consists of getting stuff out, mashing, sparging, boiling, chilling, pitching and cleaning up.

Getting stuff out is self explanitory except that if you aren't organized you will be continually getting things from the kitchen/garage/basement, which can take a tremendous amount of time and energy. I've got everything I need in 1 Rubbermaid container. 1 trip for that plus my pot, cooler and pressure caner and I'm ready to go.

Mashing is pretty simple. Grains pre ground, water up to temp. Mix and let it sit. Go watch a movie. Pretty darn easy ! Check every 20 minutes (on the commercials) for heat loss. With the steam system, open the valve and stir a bit to bring up the temp.

At this point I haven't broken a sweat yet. I haven't really been brewing, I've been watching a movie why the grains soak.

Sparging is pretty simple too. Add water, recirc until clear and then slowly drain. Top up with water once in a while ! I weigh out my hops and start my yeast during this time. This is the first part of the brew session that I actually consider that I am doing something.

The boil. The key to a relaxing boil is to get the heat source set so that it boils unattended. I use a digital thermometer during my boil. A pot at less than 92C needs no attention other than a stir from time to time. During this time I weigh out the hops and clean up the HLT.

From 92 to 95C, I watch a little closer. Wort boils at 96C where I live (3500 feet), so I watch closely from 95 to 96C until its at full boil. A boil over won't occur until 97C, so I watch my temp closely and get the stove set so it holds 96C all the time. If I stir and the temp drops I leave the stove set right where it was because it will bring it right back to full boil, but not boil over.

While the boil is going on, I clean out the mash vessel. Thats the most work of the whole boil. Then I sanitize the fermentation vessel. I'm done with the MLT and HLT at this time so I put them away.

Now its time to chill. If I'm brewing in the kitchen, I have to stir. If I'm using the CFC, all I have to do is watch the outlet temp a bit. Once I get the flow set, its hands off too.

My brew sessions are pretty relaxing and they will be even more relaxing when I get some of my automation projects done.

It really helps to have a sink right in the brewing room. Saves many steps running for water, etc. I'll be putting a sink in the garage with freeze proof faucets in our next house.

Another thing that makes it more relaxing is to have a nice comfy chair and a TV nearby. I found that I tended to do a lot of nervous nelly hovering in my early batches. Now I set things up (mash, sparge, boil, chilling) and leave them run. I'm either getting ready for the next step, cleaning up or relaxing while this stuff is going on. There is no need to hover.

I'm sure you will get much, much better as time goes on. I remember being totally played out with my first batches too. Now I tend to brew on nights when there is a good hockey game or movie on TV so that I am not bored. Like anything, it takes practice.

EdWort said:

Cheese and Crackers Bobby, that's the most improvised AG rig I have ever seen. When I go to my Keggles (I have to wait till the brew hut is built), I'm going to get one of these for $119 and use my 10 gallon cooler for the MLT.

I will use a March pump with my ChillZilla though since this puppy is one level.

Click to expand...

Where do you get that from? that seems like a pretty cool setup.


Dan

Boy, you guys are lucky with the kit.
If I could get one of those for £55, I wouldn't.......
I'd get two!

You can get those puppies at Academy Sporting Goods. They have stores in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Texas.

We have 5 in the Austin area. Cool place to shop!

Why the heck is this one so much more expensive?
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...igkw=fryer&parentPage=family&searchId=2277758