If you BIAB...

What size vessel are you using, and what kind of beers are you making?

I've read BobbyM's thread about mashtun size (thanks Bobby) but since BIAB uses the full volume, it doesn't completely translate. I'm interested in what the BIAB elite have to say

I plan on doing the Brew in a Basket method, and I'm wondering what I can expect from certain vessel sizes. I want to be able to do 8-10 gallon batches of 1.070 IPA, and occasionally 5 gallons of the really big stuff, like barleywine/RIS. That being said, I think I'm either going to go with:

1) The 82qt Bayou Classic Stockpot + Basket:

or

2) Using a keggle I already have :


with the 62qt Bayou Classic basket:


It has a diameter of ~14" so it SHOULD fit if I open the top. I also have one of those 14 gallon "italian kettle" pots with 15" diameter :
....this can also accept a basket...and has a lower profile than a keg (important for my build).

So do you think I can get away with making that much BIAB IPA in a keg, or am I going to have to step up to the 82qt pot? I plan on doing a modified sparge of some kind, I don't see it being a problem to just pour some 170f water over the top of the basket to gain a few points. Worst case scenario, I guess I could add DME, but I would like to avoid building a system that requires this extra cost for each batch.....

i just made a 1.070 IPA last weekend with two bags of grain in a 15 gallon keggle. I got 82% efficiency. BIAB is the way to go!

Was it a 5 gallon batch? I assume you used 2 bags for easier management.....did you sparge/squeeze?

how to you close off the open end of the bag? I have several bags i'm planning to divide my grain bill into, but don't have a good method in mind for securing the bags closed. Any thoughts? my initial plan was to use zip ties. i'm going to mash in a cooler for heat maintenance purposes.

You don't want to close off the bags. You want to be able to stir so it's better to clamp the open end to the sides of your cooler to hold it open while stirring.

So I guess the question I mean to ask is,

"Who is doing 10 gallon BIAB batches, and what size vessels are you using?"

"Also, what kind of beers are they?"

Maybe this will help you make your decisions.

Given a 10 gallon batch and 20 pounds of malt, you'd need at least 11.25 gallons to remain in your pot when you remove the grain. The mashtun would have to be able to hold 15.5 gallons. If you got 100% conversion, the mash/runnings gravity would be about 1.052.

Since 2 gallons will remain in the grain, the theoretical max brewhouse efficiency is 83% which would leave you with 10 gallons of 1.059. in the fermenter.

ScubaSteve said:

"Who is doing 10 gallon BIAB batches, and what size vessels are you using?"

"Also, what kind of beers are they?"

Click to expand...

I do 10 gallon batches in a 62 quart bayou classic pot with steamer basket.
I do mostly session type beers (1.040-1.050) with the occasional big beer (just did a 1.094 "quad"). I wish I had got a 20 gallon pot. Right now, I use DME to "top up" my gravity. Beer still tastes good, and I get the DME in bulk. The reason I went with the 15gallon pot is it's the largest one I could find that had the "lip" built in that kept basket about 2" from the bottom so it would clear my element. In retrospect, the basket can hold a lot more grain, but the pot can't hold all the water, so I could have modified the smaller basket for a larger pot.

Yeah, I've been looking pretty hard at getting an Instawares 80 quart pot (21"W x 17"H), with the 82 quart Bayou Classic basket (17.5"W x 13.25"H). So, unlike the Bayou Classic pot/basket combo, there will be no "lip". It would be a bit more expensive, but probably worth it. I would be able to get the basket as deep as possible to reduce dead space...I could just add carriage bolts to the bottom for rounded feet. Also, there should be about 1.75" of clearance on either side for hanging bolts, etc.

So I figure the 20 gallon (80 quart) size should work...if I suspend the basket and rinse, I guess I could counteract the issues with volume.

I want to go big, but not so big that I can't do 5 gallon batches anymore! Would a 20 or 25 gallon pot be too big due to dead space below the element?

bakins said:

The reason I went with the 15gallon pot is it's the largest one I could find that had the "lip" built in that kept basket about 2" from the bottom so it would clear my element. In retrospect, the basket can hold a lot more grain, but the pot can't hold all the water, so I could have modified the smaller basket for a larger pot.

Click to expand...

I just used 3 SS bolts as legs to hold mine off the bottom of my kettle when I did BIAB. Can't really contribute to the OP's question though because I was doing a small batch in a 8G kettle. I'd probably use more for a bigger basket to give it better support for all that grain.

ScubaSteve said:

Was it a 5 gallon batch? I assume you used 2 bags for easier management.....did you sparge/squeeze?

Click to expand...

yes, it was a 10 gallon batch. I've done this several times now. I use two bags, no need to clamp them, there is enough extra bag left that you can just ball up the top and leave it on top of the mash without having to clamp it or worry about it falling into the mash. I do "sparge." I put the bags in a 6.5 gallon bottling bucket, and steep them at 168 with however much water I need to reach 10 gallons in the brew kettle.

alcibiades said:

yes, it was a 10 gallon batch. I've done this several times now. I use two bags, no need to clamp them, there is enough extra bag left that you can just ball up the top and leave it on top of the mash without having to clamp it or worry about it falling into the mash. I do "sparge." I put the bags in a 6.5 gallon bottling bucket, and steep them at 168 with however much water I need to reach 10 gallons in the brew kettle.

Click to expand...

Nice. Sounds like you're doing the "dunk sparge". I plan on doing the "lift and rinse" . I guess most of the volume/displacement problems come from those who are using the true full volume, no-sparge method. Hmmmmmmm......Hmmmmmm.....the wheels are turning....

ScubaSteve said:

Would a 20 or 25 gallon pot be too big due to dead space below the element?

Click to expand...

I recirculate and use one vessel, so there is effectively no dead space.

ScubaSteve said:

Nice. Sounds like you're doing the "dunk sparge". I plan on doing the "lift and rinse" . I guess most of the volume/displacement problems come from those who are using the true full volume, no-sparge method. Hmmmmmmm......Hmmmmmm.....the wheels are turning....

Click to expand...

ive done the lift and rinse with really good results too, it just gets tiring on the arms. BIAB is the way to go btw, i regularly get in the low to mid 80s in efficiency.

bakins said:

I recirculate and use one vessel, so there is effectively no dead space.

Click to expand...

I see it the same way The only thing I'm worrying about is having the basket too high, and not having the grains be completely immersed because the pot is too large.

ScubaSteve said:

I see it the same way The only thing I'm worrying about is having the basket too high, and not having the grains be completely immersed because the pot is too large.

Click to expand...

ScubaSteve,

With the rims system your going to be using, wouldn't you just have to account for the dead space under the basket?

I would try that and then sparge with your lift method. Ading until you reach your preboil volume.

The only problem I'm thinking of would be the small particals left behind that may not get picked up and recirculated during your rims operation.

Bull

ScubaSteve said:

I see it the same way The only thing I'm worrying about is having the basket too high, and not having the grains be completely immersed because the pot is too large.

Click to expand...

just make sure it clears the element (you're electric,right?) and you'll be fine. I do 5 gallon batches in my 15 gallon pot and the grains are nicely submerged. My basket is about 2.5" off the bottom. For a 5 gallon batch I start with over 8 gallons of water (plus volume of grains) at start of mash, so the pot is just over half full.

bakins said:

just make sure it clears the element (you're electric,right?) and you'll be fine. I do 5 gallon batches in my 15 gallon pot and the grains are nicely submerged. My basket is about 2.5" off the bottom. For a 5 gallon batch I start with over 8 gallons of water (plus volume of grains) at start of mash, so the pot is just over half full.

Click to expand...

Okay, that makes sense. I plan on using a 20 gallon pot, so it couldn't have THAT much more volume below the element.

bullinachinashop said:

ScubaSteve,

With the rims system your going to be using, wouldn't you just have to account for the dead space under the basket?

I would try that and then sparge with your lift method. Ading until you reach your preboil volume.

The only problem I'm thinking of would be the small particals left behind that may not get picked up and recirculated during your rims operation.

Bull

Click to expand...

Your post reminded me that the RIMS system can make up for any unsubmerged grain, i.e. by recirculating I will constantly "bathe" the grain and conversion will still occur. This is good to know for those smaller batches.

Anyone with significant area under a false bottom should at least "vorlauf" a few quarts after a few minutes of mashing just to get that water mixed in well. Stirring above the FB doesn't really do it.