What the @#$% yeast bite!

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BadKarmaa

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Here's the deal. A New Castle Clone I brewed jan 11 has proven itself to be an odd beer time and time again. Most recently is the strong almost overpowering yeast flavor. It spent a 9 days in primary, 8 days in secondary, and has been conditioning in bottles for almost 3 weeks now. I'm very careful of sanitation and there aren't any rings on the necks of the brown bottles to indicate contamination. So why the yeast bite? It doesn't seem to me that 9 days in primary would be too long and lend yeast flavors. Additionally, because I siphon from the top down when racking to secondary or the priming bucket, there was hardly any sediment in the secondary and virtually none in the bottles. The only thing I've come up with is the Wyeast Special London 1968 is shi eee yeast. On the other hand I did sub that strain for the Wyeast 1098 British ale that the recipe called for. Any thoughts?
 
I dunno...maybe you just don't like that yeast. It seems like a pretty short secondary to me...maybe more yeast will fall out of suspension with time? Does it look pretty clear in the bottle and in the glass?

I've not used that strain I don't think, but most of the British ones do have a much more yeasty character than California Ale yeast. My wife hates em all.
 
same thing happened with a friends newcastle clone. just way overpowering banana esters in it (well not as overpowering as the next batch we used that saved yeast with). still ok though. what temp. are you fermenting at?
 
I've dumped 20 gallons of beer in my brewing life because of "shi ee" yeast. Some strains just produce horrible flavors, and it can not be conditioned out.

Your fermenting temps are important too. Keep your temps in the mid to low range of what the manufacturer recommends, and try not to get your temperature to vary more than five degrees.

You may want to also try a diacetyl rest. Just pull the temp of your beer up to 70ish before racking off the yeast bed. I've never noticed a giant difference, but I hear this lets the yeast absorb some of the butterscotch flavors.

I personally pick a few good yeast strains and use them interchangeably in my recipes. If I want fruity, I go Kolsch. Its very clean consistent, and it creates only a small hint of fruity esters (unless used with a lot of wheat).



As for saving your beer I would do two things :

1. Cold Conditioning

2. Cold Filtering


I personally hate :ban: flavors in my beer!
 
I keep the thermostat set at 70. I'm not 100% sure the temp doesn't vary more than 5 degrees but I never feel a difference even at night. I've been meaning to pick up some sticky thermometers, but they're low on the beer supply list. Also the beer is exceptionally clear as far as I can tell. It is pretty dark. digdan is right though. I hate banana flavors and I will be even more distraught if they continue to dominate my brews.
 
I'll bet that it's not the yeast you're tasting. I've never tasted one that has a 'bite', their flavours are better described as bready, dusty, powdery, banana, etc. but nothing to do with harshness or bite.

You it's not the type or amount of hops? Maybe too much raost barley?
 
Perhaps tannins?

I learned a harsh(pun!) lesson with tannins when making mead. I used too much tannins and it made an astringent bite. The best way to describe the bite is ... Listerine.

Does the beer have a listerinish bite? Maybe you oversparged... if thats the case it will heal with time... lots of time.
 
I have used the 1968 yeast many a time in my ESB's. The trouble with this yeast is that it falls out too fast. Many a time I had to sloosh the primary to wake them up to finish the job. If I ferment at the high end temp I get a green apple aroma.. lower is still a bit estery. I can't say it ever tasted yeasty. I would suspect something else going on here.
 
it doesn't have a "bite" per say, or a listering taste. I'd say more of a roasted banana flavor. It's hard to say. All these flavors are still new to me, and I find it hard to put words to taste. Whatever this taste is, its drowning out the other great flavors of the beer. Could someone elaborate on the tannins? I'm trying to use some deductive reasoning here to find what went wrong. I don't think the yeast fell too quickly considering how strong and long the ferment was (almost 8 days then racked to secondary after 9).
 
Roasted banana flavor can be part of the yeast's profile, or you fermented too warm.

Set the beer aside for another few weeks and give it a taste. Your total time from brew to bottle is 17 days, that's pretty short.
 
I graph out my temps with ambient and wort temps. I've seen a Safale dry yeast strain pick up 8 to 10 degrees from "fermentation" heat on a very alcoholic scottish ale.

I've actually read brewing practices in an island in Sweden, they pitch just a couple grains of dry yeast. Their theroy is that it takes longer for the colony to buildup, thus having a longer fermentation, and no "spike" that would cause significant fermentation heat (keeping temp consistant through fermentation), in turn reducing esters. My standards are against such practices, but I just thought I would share that ;)

IMHO 70 is too high for most yeast strains.

boo boo said:
70f at room temperture can also mean that the actual temperture of your wort can be as high as 5f higher than room temperture.
 
digdan said:
I graph out my temps with ambient and wort temps. I've seen a Safale dry yeast strain pick up 8 to 10 degrees from "fermentation" heat on a very alcoholic scottish ale.

I've actually read brewing practices in an island in Sweden, they pitch just a couple grains of dry yeast. Their theroy is that it takes longer for the colony to buildup, thus having a longer fermentation, and no "spike" that would cause significant fermentation heat (keeping temp consistant through fermentation), in turn reducing esters. My standards are against such practices, but I just thought I would share that ;)

IMHO 70 is too high for most yeast strains.

that seems kinda backwards. it seems like that would lead to a lot of under-attenuated beers. its an interesting logic, but i think maintaining stable temp.s on the low end of the spectrum, while pitching a decent amount of yeast results in the best finished product.
 
boo boo said:
70f at room temperture can also mean that the actual temperture of your wort can be as high as 5f higher than room temperture.

I too keep my house around 70 degrees F this time of year. My last beer that was in ferment (heffeweizen) was at 68 degrees F. During the main primary ferment, the sticky thermometer was as high as 80 degrees F. As soon as the fermentation died back down, the sticky thermometer read 68 degrees F. I have yet to find a way to control the fermentation temp within +/- 5 degrees.
 
My basement has a constant temperture for most of the year excepting part of the summer of 64f. I brew ales at this temperture and get 66f on my strip thermometer when fermenting and this time of the year can get 64f consistantly with 62f at secondary not unusual. I lager in a fridge with a controller so my lagers are on the go all year long.
 
Just taking a shot here, but you don't let your wort cool for a long time before pitching your yeast do you?

I used to make that mistake and had all kinds of after-tastes. This was the motivation for my using a wort cooler to get the wort cooled quickly so the yeast can be pitched as soon as possible. As I understand it, the sooner the brewing yeast establishes it's colony the less the possibility of bacteria gaining ground.

Am I off-base here?
 
BrauLieber said:
Just taking a shot here, but you don't let your wort cool for a long time before pitching your yeast do you?

I used to make that mistake and had all kinds of after-tastes. This was the motivation for my using a wort cooler to get the wort cooled quickly so the yeast can be pitched as soon as possible. As I understand it, the sooner the brewing yeast establishes it's colony the less the possibility of bacteria gaining ground.

Am I off-base here?

fast cooling mostly eilminates off flavors associated with DMS (cooked vegetable smell). ive never heard that yeast can prevent bacterial contamination. proper sanitation eliminates bacterial contamination. fast cooling eliminates some chance because a cooling pot with the lid off is ideal for bacteria or wild yeast.
 
It is just that if you pitch your yeast in a timely fashon (ASAP) you minumize the possibility of any airborne yeast or other foreign spoor from gaining a foothold in your wort and causing later problems with off flavors or spoilage
 
boo boo said:
It is just that if you pitch your yeast in a timely fashon (ASAP) you minumize the possibility of any airborne yeast or other foreign spoor from gaining a foothold in your wort and causing later problems with off flavors or spoilage

'Zactly, sort like early yeast gets the worm, uhhh wort.
 
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