Fly sparge vs Batch sparge

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smccarter

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I brewed the same beer twice today sparging two different ways....

NB Surly Bitter Brewer clone.

Beer 1:
Mash temp 152, 2.5 gallons water
Sparge water - 5 gal total, 170 degrees
Fly sparge for about 30 minutes
Pre-boil volume - 6.4 gal
Pre-boil gravity - 1.033
Post-boil volume - 5.5 gal
OG - 1.040
Efficiency - 66%

Beer 2:
Mash temp 152, 2.5 gallons water
Sparge water - 5 gal total, 170 degrees
Batch sparge
- first runnings
- second runnings, 2.5 gal
- third runnings, 2.5 gal
Pre-boil volume - 6.5 gal
Pre-boil gravity - 1.040
Post-boil volume - 5 gal
OG - 1.046
Efficiency - 80%

First time batch sparging for me. I think this is a change in process that will stick for me.
 
Do what's easiest and what you like the best. I should say though, that generally fly sparging produces better efficiency and a cleaner runoff - but do what makes your brew day the best for you. I generally fly sparge slowly for 45-60mins, but batch sparging is quicker and easier - so stick to it if you like it better.
 
Your numbers don't compute. If your starting volume, pre-boil gravity and post boil gravity are correct on your fly sparge, the liquid left in the pot would have been 5.28 gallons but you got 5.5 :confused: . With the batch sparge, 5.65 gallons but you got 5 :confused:
 
smccarter said:
Don't know. Those are the numbers though. Actual and calculated may differ I suppose.
Click to expand...

Personally I use your second method every time. Just start with 15 gallons in my hot liquor tank, and use it all then add a little more at the end as needed. Do a first, second and third runnings. Let the draining continue as I boil, surprising how much slowly drains out of the mash tun. Use silicone hoses between the tanks, and pour the water in by hand, or just let it fill from the bottom. It's all about the gravity.

Pumps suck, and pumps blow. Pumps suck in air, and create a localized hot spot where the beer goes around, and around, and around, Beat up and tired, it finally decides to not make it through the false bottom and gets stuck. I sold pumps for 30 years, were I to EVER consider one for award winning brew efforts, it would be in a much bigger system, and one always controlled with a VFD so as to gently move it around, not at motor speed.
 
An igloo 7 gal cooler.

4 lb Fawcett Optic
3 lb Canada Malting pale ale malt
.75 lb Simpsons Golden Naked Oats
.38 lb English Medium Crystal
.05 lb English Roasted Barley

90 minute boil

Efficiency numbers were calculated using 7 lb 2-row. The calculator I use doesn't have either Fawcett Optic or Canada Malting pale ale malt. Just grouped the 7 lb together as 2-row.
 
Interesting, thanks for testing this. One red flag I would say though is that your estimated fly sparging time is roughly half what is recommended, so you may be draining too quickly and losing efficiency that way.
 
smccarter said:
An igloo 7 gal cooler.

4 lb Fawcett Optic
3 lb Canada Malting pale ale malt
.75 lb Simpsons Golden Naked Oats
.38 lb English Medium Crystal
.05 lb English Roasted Barley

90 minute boil

Efficiency numbers were calculated using 7 lb 2-row. The calculator I use doesn't have either Fawcett Optic or Canada Malting pale ale malt. Just grouped the 7 lb together as 2-row.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant specifically what kind of separation media you use in the cooler. False bottom, manifold, or mesh tube?

When you fly sparged, how much water did you maintain on top of the grain bed?
 
I personally fly spare using a cheap tin foil pan with tiny holes in the bottom and I sit that right on top of my mash and keep the same flow of sparge flowing as I drain the wort. I got a 90% efficiency on a Pumpkin Ale last night using this technique.
 
smccarter said:
Don't know. Those are the numbers though. Actual and calculated may differ I suppose.
Click to expand...
Let me try a different way. I wasn't saying the error was why your numbers are so different between batch and fly. Using brewers friend calculator, Pre-boil your fly-sparge efficiency was 69%. Post-boil it was 72%. Batch sparge, pre-boil = 85%, post-boil = 75%. Boiling doesn't change total sugar points in your wort so efficiency doesn't change. There's a measuring error somewhere that might cause you problems in the future. The post-boil numbers are also much closer than the spread you posted.

I had a sparge last night that did not go well at all. My calculated post-boil gravity was going to be 1.055 when I wanted 1.065. I sparged additional water and got a volume and SG reading I was happy with and increased my boil time to hit my desired gravity. Result was 1.066. The only reason that worked is because it is a straight ratio from pre-boil to post-boil.
 
Could easily be a measurement somewhere. My equipment is, well... home brewing equipment. My calculator is Open Office Calc with formulas I got from John Palmers web site. I could be wrong. I suppose the greatest thing about a hobbie, is that you really don't have to be exactly precise. Thanks for the info though, always looking to improve my process and learn more. I'll have to take a look at Brewers Friend. I haven't used it before, but I will on my next brewday... tomorrow.

I'm brewing the same recipe twice again tomorrow. I'll see how fly and batch sparging differs between the two batches.
 
Let us know how it goes.

I was sitting there brewing a batch sparge and thought to myself, Self you could probably run a BIAB while waiting for the mash to happen and not add too much time to my brew day. Then I tried fitting two buckets into my fermentation chamber :( Time to upgrade.
 
One thing I observe with your numbers is that you let your tun (or intentionally did so) run dry. A traditional fly sparge has water above the grain all the way through, until you reach your preboil volume in the kettle. I don't have any data on how that may affect efficiency, but thought I'd mention it anyway.
 
I wasn't able to brew on Wednesday... had to work. I brewed the first of two this evening, and will brew the 2nd tomorrow. They are the same recipes - NB Surly Cynic clones. Here is the info on the recipe and the numbers from today. I fly sparged this batch.

8.75 lb Belgian Pilsner Malt
.63 lb Golden Naked Oats
.63 lb Aciduated Malt
.63 lb Belgian Aromatic

Mash temp 150

Pre boil volume - 6.5 gallons
Pre boil gravity - 1.052
Efficiency - 88.4%

3 gal in mash
5 gal sparge water

Post boil volume 5.5 gal
Original gravity 1.058

The sparge took about 70 minutes in all. I set the timer to 60 minutes when it began. The timer went off... I believe it was 10 or so minutes after the timer went off that it finished.

A DAY LATER ------- Same recipe today, but batch sparge.

Mash temp 148 today... Had to add an additional .25 gal to the mash tun to bring it up to 148, so 3.25 gal in the mash tun.

first, took 25 minutes to drain
2nd, added 2.5 gal at 180, stirred for 10 min, took 9 minutes to drain
3rd, added 2.5 gal at 180, stirred for 10 min, took 5 minutes to drain.

I wanted the two batches to be comparable so I stopped draining when I hit 6.5 gallons, so there was still a bit of water left in the lauter tun.

Pre-boil volume was 6.5 gallons
Pre-boil gravity 1.049

Efficiency 83.3%

Post boil volume 5.4 gallons (boiled for 70 min)

OG - 1.057
 
There you have it. I have to say that I was very surprised at the results, but even more surprised at the quality of the wort. I really took my time yesterday with the fly sparge. 70 minutes. The quality of the wort was impressive. Very clear in comparison to what I got today. The batch sparge was very cloudy in comparison.

I may have disproven my idea that to stir the mash and to batch sparge would be more efficient.

Again... I'm using home brewing equipment and testing devices. My measurements may not be exactly spot on. As close as I could get them, but probably not exactly spot on.
 
Thank you for the follow up. As long as your measurements are off the same, it all evens out. Let us know how the fermentation and especially the clearing work out. I'm always curious as to how cloudy wort translates to cloudy beer and who knows, I might try fly sparging if the results show an advantage.

What was the mash temp on your fly sparge batch? How much did you vorlauf on each batch? Did the batch sparge just never clear for you?
 
smccarter said:
I wasn't able to brew on Wednesday... had to work. I brewed the first of two this evening, and will brew the 2nd tomorrow. They are the same recipes - NB Surly Cynic clones. Here is the info on the recipe and the numbers from today. I fly sparged this batch.

8.75 lb Belgian Pilsner Malt
.63 lb Golden Naked Oats
.63 lb Aciduated Malt
.63 lb Belgian Aromatic

Mash temp 150

Pre boil volume - 6.5 gallons
Pre boil gravity - 1.052
Efficiency - 88.4%

3 gal in mash
5 gal sparge water

Post boil volume 5.5 gal
Original gravity 1.058

The sparge took about 70 minutes in all. I set the timer to 60 minutes when it began. The timer went off... I believe it was 10 or so minutes after the timer went off that it finished.

A DAY LATER ------- Same recipe today, but batch sparge.

Mash temp 148 today... Had to add an additional .25 gal to the mash tun to bring it up to 148, so 3.25 gal in the mash tun.

first, took 25 minutes to drain
2nd, added 2.5 gal at 180, stirred for 10 min, took 9 minutes to drain
3rd, added 2.5 gal at 180, stirred for 10 min, took 5 minutes to drain.

I wanted the two batches to be comparable so I stopped draining when I hit 6.5 gallons, so there was still a bit of water left in the lauter tun.

Pre-boil volume was 6.5 gallons
Pre-boil gravity 1.049

Efficiency 83.3%

Post boil volume 5.4 gallons (boiled for 70 min)

OG - 1.057
Click to expand...

That's been pretty close to my results as well when I go back and forth between batch sparge and fly sparging, although my wort is pretty clear with both. I have just about the exact same efficiency with either method.

I sometimes continuous sparge (fly sparge) just so I can FWH, or because I have some extra time on brewday. Sometimes I batch sparge if I'm in a huge hurry.
 
smccarter said:
There you have it. I have to say that I was very surprised at the results, but even more surprised at the quality of the wort. I really took my time yesterday with the fly sparge. 70 minutes. The quality of the wort was impressive. Very clear in comparison to what I got today. The batch sparge was very cloudy in comparison.

I may have disproven my idea that to stir the mash and to batch sparge would be more efficient.

Again... I'm using home brewing equipment and testing devices. My measurements may not be exactly spot on. As close as I could get them, but probably not exactly spot on.
Click to expand...

As I observe what to "stir" means to some, it becomes an amazing thing. The idea is not to be the wicked stir witch from the west. It is to make sure you get the mash mixed well, and take out the lumps. After that, leave that grain bed alone. Three runnings are the way to go. I use mash time as a relax time. The last thing I want to do is have to stand around watching some overpriced pump beat up my wort and aerate it as well. Could be watching some tube. Makes ZERO sense.
 
Honestly, I was so impressed with the continuous - fly sparge, that I think that's the way I'll go from now on. I did stir after the 60 minute mash. Even now, in the fermenters, the difference in appearance is extreme. The fly sparge is clean. The batch sparge version is still very cloudy. Both are fermenting like crazy, and they'll both taste good, but I just can't say enough about the difference in the two. The fly sparged batch was brilliant in comparison.

I may try this again just to see if I can get a clear wort from batch sparging. Could easily be that I was impatient and didn't give the sparge(s) enough time to drain off. I am an impatient person.
 

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