Do Saisons NEED to ferment at a high temp?

i tried making a saison this summer and it was a huge failure. ordered wyeast 3724 during the heat wave and it showed up DOA. subbed some dry safeale, OG lower than hoped, FG settled at 1.022, pretty sure it got aerated and is just terrible.

anywho, i'm thinking about trying one this winter that i (hopefully) don't have to worry about the yeast getting overheated. do saisons need to ferment at a high temperature in order to get the classic characteristics of a saison?

There's a bunch of different yeasts you can use for saisons. All of them are, to varying degrees, able to ferment at high temps without producing fusels. 3724 is just the only one that seems to need high temps to ferment out properly; it has a tendency to stall out around 1.020 at normalish temps. I'd ferment it in the hottest area you can find and pitch something hungrier if it stalls. It does give more of that saisonic saisonyness at higher temps.

I'm just going over my notes for my first attempt at a saison(it won a blue ribbon a couple of months ago), but I can't find the temp at which I fermented.....FAIL

However, I know that I didn't let it get high. Probably 72-74 the first few days. Then I let it rise to ambient which at the time was probably 77ish. I used wlp566 yeast. So to answer your question, NO, you do not have to ferment saisons at high temps to make a good one.

I'm planning on doing a Belgian Saison soon, and I've been researching a lot. 3724 NEEDS high temps. I mean it shouldn't get below 80 during primary, and likes it as hot as 90 even. I've also been told that if it stalls out you can either pitch something to finish, or if you wait it will start up again and finish out eventually.

I think Saison's do have to be fermented warm...but it is all relative. I think mid 70's is ok which is obviously much too warm for most ales. The important thing is too keep the yeast active so that the saison will attenuate enough.

There are hybrid yeasts out there too like WLP568 and I think 565. They're part DuPont Saison and part something else that will finish the batch out if the finicky DuPont yeast craps out early.

565 is the same as 3724. 568 is a blend of 565 and a non-saison belgian yeast or two that doesn't stall.

kingwood-kid said:

565 is the same as 3724. 568 is a blend of 565 and a non-saison belgian yeast or two that doesn't stall.

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Yes! This^.

thanks for the info! i might just buy a few packets of it late winter/early spring so they hopefully don't die in transit during the summer then use them when it warms up.

You can also harvest from a bottle of Saison Dupont. You'll get 565 and 566 mixed together, plus it comes with free beer! On the down side, you have to make like a 6-step starter. I've used my culture several times with success. It never stalls (1.041 to 1.002 in under a week) and makes farmhouse-flavored beer when fermented anywhere from 75 to 100F.

3711 can ferment at a lower temp and do just fine. 3724 does like it hot. I use a cooler full of water that I put my fermenter in and use an aquarium heater to get the temp i want. If you get a good one it will hold temp to +/- 1/2 degree. I pitch about 70 and ramp it up to high 80's over the course of a couple of days. Works great.

beergolf said:

3711 can ferment at a lower temp and do just fine. 3724 does like it hot. I use a cooler full of water that I put my fermenter in and use an aquarium heater to get the temp i want. If you get a good one it will hold temp to +/- 1/2 degree. I pitch about 70 and ramp it up to high 80's over the course of a couple of days. Works great.

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+1. You beat me on both counts. 3711 is very versatile and one of the lower temperature Saison yeasts. A swamp cooler and aquarium heater work great.

WLP566/Saison II can ferment in the low 60's. I believe McKenzie uses this strain for their saison and they keep it cool. And they won the gold at GABF 2007, 2008, and 2010 for the saison.

I love 3724, and I get consistently get great results with it with proper to-style FGs. I pitch a lot of yeast at 68°F and then gradually raise to the high 70s. Takes a bit longer than other yeasts, but I've always gotten much better results when I start cooler and rise. I know everyone says to always stay 80°F+, but that's never worked as well for me. YMMV

MalFet said:

I love 3724, and I get consistently get great results with it with proper to-style FGs. I pitch a lot of yeast at 68°F and then gradually raise to the high 70s. Takes a bit longer than other yeasts, but I've always gotten much better results when I start cooler and rise. I know everyone says to always stay 80°F+, but that's never worked as well for me. YMMV

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I like the pitch low and then slowly let it rise tactic. Works great for several Belgian yeasts.