A Tribute to Hunahpu

Had MZ on tap tonight. #Flamesuit on

VSGLS1 said:

Had MZ on tap tonight. #Flamesuit on

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whatever

VSGLS1 said:

Had MZ on tap tonight. #Flamesuit on

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I ain't mad at 'cha. I've never had it on tap, what did you think?

I like from the bottle better. No head on tap. Still very good!

How's everyone feel about such a crazy wort with no pure o's? Seems one option is to use agitation and reoxygenate after 18 hours? Any other suggestions? Not looking forward to spending 60+ for the kit and tank.

Oophaga said:

How's everyone feel about such a crazy wort with no pure o's? Seems one option is to use agitation and reoxygenate after 18 hours? Any other suggestions? Not looking forward to spending 60+ for the kit and tank.

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I poured back and forth between 2 fermenters until it was really frothy, then pitched. I did it again after 18 hours, like you mentioned, it really took off after that. The krausen ring was about 16" up on both the buckets.

allenH said:

I poured back and forth between 2 fermenters until it was really frothy, then pitched. I did it again after 18 hours, like you mentioned, it really took off after that. The krausen ring was about 16" up on both the buckets.

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How is your recipe coming along? I was curious about yours. Haven't bottled yet correct?

Whizard Hat did you use pure o2?

Thanks,

Ryan

Oophaga said:

How is your recipe coming along? I was curious about yours. Haven't bottled yet correct?

Whizard Hat did you use pure o2?

Thanks,

Ryan

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It's coming along. I just racked both fermenters (3gal in each) into a single bucket, looks like I have a little over 5.5gal. It went from 1.114 to 1.032, so about 10.75%. The taste is all chocolate. Tons of chocolate and it's pretty boozy. I had to punt when all my LHBS had was black roast barley (650-750L), so I dropped it to 2lbs, it is definitely lacking the roast flavor.
I am currently waiting for the groom to finalize his secondary additions, I think this is going to end up with some bourbon soaked oak, a bit of lactose (ala Moat Water), and since the roast isn't there, cold steeped espresso at bottling. Maybe.

Hearts only carries Muttons as well, I am fairly sure its the same as your referring to, super dark. I have never adjusted for the color difference and never wish I had. Never noticed overly roast flavors in my beers either, maybe it'll work well with the Hunahpu clones, even darker! Surprised how low it's finishing! Good to know. I want a fg of about 1.039+ for that crazy viscosity. Of course that makes balancing the sweetness even more of an importance. Did it have a pretty serious mouth feel?

Also, no surprise a 10.75% is boozy seeing its not even bottled yet! I bet it'll be fantastic 6+mo's in. I'm almost to the point of being able to only try one 12 oz a month to stop myself from drinking all my big beers before properly aged. I'm generally very bad at that.

Oophaga said:

Hearts only carries Muttons as well, I am fairly sure its the same as your referring to, super dark. I have never adjusted for the color difference and never wish I had. Never noticed overly roast flavors in my beers either, maybe it'll work well with the Hunahpu clones, even darker! Surprised how low it's finishing! Good to know. I want a fg of about 1.039+ for that crazy viscosity. Of course that makes balancing the sweetness even more of an importance. Did it have a pretty serious mouth feel?

Also, no surprise a 10.75% is boozy seeing its not even bottled yet! I bet it'll be fantastic 6+mo's in. I'm almost to the point of being able to only try one 12 oz a month to stop myself from drinking all my big beers before properly aged. I'm generally very bad at that.

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I don't remember the brand off hand, when I ran the recipe through beer calculus (I'm a cheap bastard), it came out to 83srm with the 300L roast barley. So with the 650-750L, it would have made the srm out of control, so I cut a pound and added a pound Munich II. live and learn I guess.
Had I hit my OG, it should have finished in the high 30's, low 40's. I had too much going on, I had planned on a double mash and 2 hour boil, what I didn't plan on was the humidity reducing my boil off rate so much. When I tested my keggle, I boiled off 1.5gal per hour (in February) with a medium-hard boil. So I collected 9gal to finish with 6. Luckily I measured the boil off the first during the first hour of the boil (burner going full blast) and tested the gravity every 30 minutes. My gravity was coming in too low, so at the 2 hour mark, I added the remainder of the runnings from the second mash (about 2 gallons). 3 hours later, I added my hops. This beer whipped my ass.
The color is there, the body is there. The samples cling to the glass when swirled, just like the Zhukov I had a few weeks ago. It is only missing the heavy roast notes. I am serious when I say heavy chocolate, it tastes like boozy chocolate milk. It will be interesting to see how this beer finishes up.

Jeffh97 said:

I have brewed up a few batches of a similar type of beer. I talked with Wayne awhile back and got a bit of feed back and took into his suggestion and made it my own. In the past 8 months or so I have made two batches. With the intent to age both.... Didnt work. This stuff was too good to last. I managed to bottle about 24 bottles on the first batch out of the keg with a beergun. I think I have 3 bottles left of that batch and the 2nd batch I made had apple brandy soaked oak cubes added. I just bottled the remainder of that keg with hopes of saving and only got 24 bottles again. That stash is down to 18 bottles now. Both batches I made have gone over very well and I find this style of beer very fun to make. My first batch was 10.4% (1.100 OG) and 2nd was 11%(1.110) with Thames Valley Yeast. Both batches had crap mash efficiency as expected (55%) and maxed out my mash tun with ~30ish lbs of grain. I am curious to see how other's versions will turn out.

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I kegged batch three this time I used fresh grown habaneros from my garden. OG was 1.117 and FG is 1.031 so 11.5% with Thames Valley yeast. Has a good spiciness to it. It's only 2 months old, but very drinkable already for the size of the beer.

Anybody add yeast at bottling? I'm sitting just under 11%, I'm not sure how much that 1968 has left in it. I am adding Irish whiskey soaked oak chips tomorrow (grooms choice), so I will probably be bottling in a couple of weeks.

allenH said:

Anybody add yeast at bottling? I'm sitting just under 11%, I'm not sure how much that 1968 has left in it. I am adding Irish whiskey soaked oak chips tomorrow (grooms choice), so I will probably be bottling in a couple of weeks.

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Are you using cubes or chips? I hear the chips can be very quick to become harsh. Just a heads up, not from personal experience though.

Oophaga said:

Are you using cubes or chips? I hear the chips can be very quick to become harsh. Just a heads up, not from personal experience though.

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I read that also. I am using chips, I will check it at 2 weeks and see where it's at.

BTW wlp002 and thames valley both have tolerances that are around 10% so I would re-pitch at bottling. Not that it wouldn't carb, it'd just probably take forever, and seeing as your on a time crunch I would go ahead and do it to be on the safe side.

Oophaga said:

BTW wlp002 and thames valley both have tolerances that are around 10% so I would re-pitch at bottling. Not that it wouldn't carb, it'd just probably take forever, and seeing as your on a time crunch I would go ahead and do it to be on the safe side.

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That was my thought. Wyeast says 1968 is good for 9%, Wayne says he can get 13% out of it, but we ain't Wayne. My last gravity reading, I believe, was around 10.7-10.8-ish. I have never re-pitched before, I definitely don't want to drop the gravity much more than it is now.

allenH said:

That was my thought. Wyeast says 1968 is good for 9%, Wayne says he can get 13% out of it, but we ain't Wayne. My last gravity reading, I believe, was around 10.7-10.8-ish. I have never re-pitched before, I definitely don't want to drop the gravity much more than it is now.

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You'll be adding sugar to right? My question is do you make a starter to repitch? And if so, would you want to do it well ahead of time so it could be crashed in order to decant most of the starter beer off of the yeast?

FLBrew said:

You'll be adding sugar to right? My question is do you make a starter to repitch? And if so, would you want to do it well ahead of time so it could be crashed in order to decant most of the starter beer off of the yeast?

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I've been doing a little digging around, some people say add more of the same yeast and other say to add champagne yeast (Lalvin EC-1118 ). My questions are, if I add more 1968, how will it do in an 11% enviroment? If I add EC-1118, was the 1968 finished, or did it peter out due to alchy%? Or will it drop the gravity further with its increased alcohol tolerance? I'm showing my big beer noob-ness here

allenH said:

I've been doing a little digging around, some people say add more of the same yeast and other say to add champagne yeast (Lalvin EC-1118 ). My questions are, if I add more 1968, how will it do in an 11% enviroment? If I add EC-1118, was the 1968 finished, or did it peter out due to alchy%? Or will it drop the gravity further with its increased alcohol tolerance? I'm showing my big beer noob-ness here

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The general rule is to use a yeast less attenuative than what you used to ferment with. It'll go after the newly introduced "easy" sugars.

I'd suggest using something that floccs well, and have at it. There's a yeast out for cask/bottle condition ales for this very purpose. Dry yeast from Danstar, CBC-1. http://www.danstaryeast.com/products/cbc-1-cask-and-bottle-conditioned-beer-yeast

My LHBS has it, but I haven't used it, since I keg mostly.

BTW,

Here's a pic of my RIS.. I opted out the huna spices to see how this goes as a MZ base myself.

1.117 OG I think it was and finished around 1.031. Came out right around where MZ comes in at. I ended up a little higher in ABV, but not much.. 11.3% versus the 11% for MZ.

Body wise, this is MZ, period. Without a doubt, it's the viscous thick milkshake beer. Everlasting red/mocha head, that I can pull out a dollop with my finger and it stand up like whip cream.

Taste wise... I'm hard pressed there. I think mine has the dark fruits nailed, the chocolate is right, and the roast might be a tad bit much, but the beer is young still.. I'd venture to wait a month or two, and taste this, and pretty much call it as close as I can see it..

I aged mine on oak with pappy van winkle bourbon for about 3 months. It's fantastic, simply fantastic.





I'll have to post an aggressive pour from the tap to show how similar they pour. It's amazingly close from what I can taste.

Looks pretty damn tasty to me. Nice work

FATC1TY said:

The general rule is to use a yeast less attenuative than what you used to ferment with. It'll go after the newly introduced "easy" sugars.

I'd suggest using something that floccs well, and have at it. There's a yeast out for cask/bottle condition ales for this very purpose. Dry yeast from Danstar, CBC-1. http://www.danstaryeast.com/products/cbc-1-cask-and-bottle-conditioned-beer-yeast

My LHBS has it, but I haven't used it, since I keg mostly.

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This is what I used for my Pious (Westy XII clone) and it worked great. I just used half the package in the bottling bucket without rehydrating. Good luck!

I've always used wine or champagne yeast for long aged big beers when going to bottle. The wine yeasts can't consume more complex sugars to my understanding, or at least as well as beer yeasts. They can tolerate the alcohol and are pretty clean for the minimal sugar they ferm through. Plus they are cheap as hell to use half a pack or something like that.

Thanks for all the advice, I will check a my LHBS for the CBC-1, if I can't find it, I will try out the champagne yeast. How many volumes is everyone aiming for on this?

allenH said:

Thanks for all the advice, I will check a my LHBS for the CBC-1, if I can't find it, I will try out the champagne yeast. How many volumes is everyone aiming for on this?

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I went lower, like around 1.6-1.8. Helps add to the body and creamy feel of it when you drink it.

If you overcarb, it'll feel thinner and prickly, and really take away everything you worked towards in this beer.

Just bottled my own take on this recipe. I frigging love it when it tastes like it's dialed in on the first effort. Fantastic beer that really hits the Hunahpu spot.

Which recipe did you go with? Loving the results, still have yet to do mine, hopefully this month.

Oophaga said:

Which recipe did you go with? Loving the results, still have yet to do mine, hopefully this month.

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I cheated like hell on mine. I was helping host a group brew for the first time so I had to play host duties during my brew session. We also had a lot of brewing newbies at the event so I wanted to show them what you could pull off in a short period of time. To accommodate this, I went extract with specialty grains. I'm calling it, "Desayuno Del Diablo" (Devil's Breakfast). Here's the recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.20 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.105 SG
Actual OG: 1.110 SG
Estimated FG: 1.025
Actual FG: 1.040 (9.5% ABV)
Estimated Color: 54.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 50.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 90.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.00 gal Zephyr Hills Bottled Water Water 1 -
1 lbs 8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.9 %
1 lbs Roasted Barley (Briess) (300.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.3 %
12.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.5 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %
9 lbs DME Sparklinf Amber (Briess) (10.5 SRM) Dry Extract 6 65.5 %
1 lbs DME Dark Traditional (Briess) (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 7 7.3 %
2.00 oz Challenger [6.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 34.7 IBUs
1.00 oz First Gold [8.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 15.9 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 10 -
1.00 oz First Gold [8.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 mi Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
3.0 pkg Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) [35.49 m Yeast 12 -
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Other 13 -
1.00 Items Oxygen, Pure (Primary 1.0 mins) Other 14 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Steep Step Add 4.69 qt of water at 167.9 F 150.0 F 45 min

Brewed outdoors BIAB style at October Surprise brew and bottle share 10/6/2013. Specialty grains soaked for 45 minutes in BIAB bag binder clipped to interior deep fry basket for turkey fryer brew pot. All extracts added prior to beginning of boil. 60 Minute boil starting at eleven and ending at noon. Added bittering hops to hops spider at 60, added 1 oz goldings hops at 30 and the last ounce goldings at flameout. Twenty minute flameout rest/whirlpool before using wort chiller.

Pitched two vials Burton ale yeast. No activity in airlock, worried that no fermentation started so pitched an extra vial of burtons ale yeast 12 hours later. Final volume estimated at 4.75 gallons and slightly higher OG than anticipated as a result. Target was 1.095 and it measured 1.110.

Adjuncts went in 10/18/2013, no hops bag: Whole Ancho pepper, Whole Guajillo pepper, Split vanilla bean, 4" cinnamon stick, cacao nibs. Allowed to rest in beer until 11/4/2013 (bottling day). Actual yield: 4.25 gallons.

Wow... 1.040 FG? And it's only 50 IBU's?

Do the pepper additions help tame that sweetness?

I did 94 IBU's and got it from 1.125 to 1.030.

I know you were showing folks how to brew, but next time, for a beer that big, I'd suggest dry yeast, or a big ass starter. Even with 3 vials, you still under pitched by a fair bit.

Actually, the pepper additions did tame it quite a bit. The flavor is perfectly inline with the real thing and it tasted a little more hoppy/yeasty than i'd expected. I used Burton Ale Yeast instead of Thames Valley which has about a 5% less attenuation rating overall, so it performed as expected. The wort was treated with pure O2, yeast nutrient and servomyces. Krausen was a good 4" and stayed completely within the fermenter (no blowoff). If you went to Hunahpu day 2013, you might've tried it on tap and found it to be a little thin. I believed at the time this was due to one of two reasons: Wayne had to stretch the kegged batch to accommodate or they got a very strong attenuation (leaning towards the latter) out of their thames valley yeast.

Originally, i'd planned on this just being a RIS without the spice treatment but then figured what the hell as I had all the ingredients. I tossed them in there for two weeks prior to bottling and was impressed with the results. It might be a little sweeter than the other recipes but I can live with it. Consider it the brewer's brunch stout version of hunahpu. It also has some apple, pear and honey notes in it that you won't find in a regular hunahpu, although they do get a little lost next to the adjunct flavors.

The Ancho pepper is definitely what gives the beer it's smoked raisin flavor note. I chose the biggest, oily-est one I have in my larder for making mole sauce and it went in whole, unsplit. I'm glad I used the guajillo pepper as the second roast pepper choice as it imparts a slightly different, almost like a grape tea-like flavor (hard to describe) but with some heat to it. This brings a better heat level to the beer than you'd taste in a standard hunahpu.

If I had it to do again, the only thing I would change is add another small cinnamon stick. One 4" stick of ceylon cinnamon wasn't quite enough.

Thanks for the notes on the spicing..

You mention Thames as the yeast.. I was under the impression from CCB and others, that 1968 was their house.. Do you think they use a different yeast for their bigger beers?

FATC1TY said:

Thanks for the notes on the spicing.. You mention Thames as the yeast.. I was under the impression from CCB and others, that 1968 was their house.. Do you think they use a different yeast for their bigger beers?

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I believe they used Thames previously. Now it's 1968.

FLBrew said:

I believe they used Thames previously. Now it's 1968.

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Yep, an old BN podcast interview had Wayne saying Thames valley as the yeast, but we have uncovered the yeast change.

And thanks FLBrew for the heads up on Copper Tubing, just picked up some 1/2!

edecambra said:

Yep, an old BN podcast interview had Wayne saying Thames valley as the yeast, but we have uncovered the yeast change. And thanks FLBrew for the heads up on Copper Tubing, just picked up some 1/2!

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Excellent!

Type: All Grain Date: 3/5/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 8.20 gal
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Pot and Cooler (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 6.50 gal
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 4.50 gal

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 53.5 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 11.9 %
2 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.9 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.9 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Roasted Barley (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 6.9 %
10.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.5 %
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.5 %
2 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 8 7.9 %
2.00 oz Warrior [16.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 9 71.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 ml] Yeast 10 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.120 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.038 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 11.0 %
Bitterness: 71.3 IBUs
Est Color: 80.9 SRM

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 25 lbs 4.0 oz

Mash Temperature 154

What do yall think?

I think that looks like its going to make one hell of a tasty stout!!!

I think its a smart move to do less crystal like that - the shear amount of residual sweetness from the malt should be balanced by the roastiness, and not become cloying b/c of too much caramel

Bottled mine today. Went with Irish whiskey soaked oak and 6oz cold steeped espresso beans for the additions. Carbed at 1.9vol and added CBC-1 yeast. Tasted great at bottling, I can't wait to see how it is once carbed.

Excited to hear how the cbc does at carbing. Let us know how it comes out! Great looking batch.

Anyone got any more tasting notes (along with the grain bill)? I am looking to brew something like this in a few days so was looking for the latest and greatest recipe. Got a big starter of 1968 spinning away right now.

I just brewed up my rendition of this beer and Holy $hit it was the worst brew day ever! To try to hit the numbers I wanted I increased the grain bill and reduced my water/grain ratio to fit in my Tun which resulted in super thick and super stuck sparge. The numbers look crazy but I get lower efficiency with my system anyway and a big beer is even lower. Here is the recipe I used, similar to the initial one with MO as the base but I have modified it to the yeast I had on hand. It tastes amazing however so I guess all my pain was worth it. I think next time I'll be doing only half a batch.

Cheers

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.76 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
OG: 1.115
FG: 1.028
Estimated Color: 85.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 84.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.00 % ??
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.9 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 1 -
2.00 ml Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
3.00 g Chalk (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
2.00 g Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
6.0 oz Blackprinz Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.1 %
7 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6 22.8 %
15 lbs Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 7 45.6 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 8 3.0 %
3 lbs Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 9 9.1 %
2 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 10 6.1 %
1 lbs Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 11 3.0 %
2 lbs Chocoate Malt, Pale Crisp (400.0 SRM) Grain 12 6.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 13 3.0 %
65.00 g Belma [11.30 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 14 84.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [ Yeast 15 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 32 lbs 14.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 27.90 qt of water at 174.0 F 156.0 F 45 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.05gal, 4.08gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
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Worst mash ever. Super thick and stuck all day. Had to add a pound of rice hulls to no avail.
Lower eff and all but my volumes were on point and the beer looks and smells completely correct.

I only had 12oz of c40 so I added 4 oz of c15