Coopers Kit with DME-Full Boil late addition extract?

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KerryD

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I swear I searched! There is a lot of info, but the answer isn't obvious to me yet.

I have a Coopers Real Ale Kit and some LME. 2 oz's of cascade hops.

The "instructions" call for partial boil with all the malt added at the beginning and the hop schedule is 2/3oz at 60, 1/2 oz at 15, and the rest at flameout.

I'd like to do a full boil and am interested in anything that might help improve an all extract kit... and I assume from reading late addition might help???

Any advice??? Do I hod back half the Coopers stuff and half the LME, or should I just add the LME with 15 mins to go???

Should I change the Hop additions if I try a late addition?

Thanks in advance!
 
If you're doing a full boil, I don't think late extract addition will be helpful or necessary. It'd be like doing an AG boil, as far as the SG during the boil, etc. I can't see any reason to add the extract late in that case.
 
Thanks, that's an awesome offer!

I bought Beersmith, I should try to figure out how to do that for future reference.
 
Yeah, lost again!

OK, So I entered the recipe and original boil volume into Beermith and noted the ibu's... I changed the boil volume and noted the change.... should I be trying to adjust additions to meet the IBU/SG that the original recipe was hitting? If I do, it seems I cut the hops addition in half... ???

This was the original recipe figuring a 2 gallon boil the LHBS (as best a noob could pick out kit ingredients in Beersmith)

I want to do a 5 gallon boil... have a 10 gallon pot and a chiller...

3 lbs 12.0 oz Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM) Extract 55.56 % (Coopers Real Ale can)
3 lbs Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 44.44 %
0.63 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
0.87 oz Cascade [0.60 %] (0 min) Hops -

I'm clueless on where to go with the Hops. Do they need to be changed?
 
Yeah, lost again!

OK, So I entered the recipe and original boil volume into Beermith and noted the ibu's... I changed the boil volume and noted the change.... should I be trying to adjust additions to meet the IBU/SG that the original recipe was hitting? If I do, it seems I cut the hops addition in half... ???

This was the original recipe figuring a 2 gallon boil the LHBS (as best a noob could pick out kit ingredients in Beersmith)

I want to do a 5 gallon boil... have a 10 gallon pot and a chiller...

3 lbs 12.0 oz Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM) Extract 55.56 % (Coopers Real Ale can)
3 lbs Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 44.44 %
0.63 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
0.87 oz Cascade [0.60 %] (0 min) Hops -

I'm clueless on where to go with the Hops. Do they need to be changed?

Yes- when you adjusted the recipe to the larger boil, you just need to adjust the bittering hops to give you the same IBU. I have to go back to work now, but I can run it later for you, to double check it. Send me a PM to remind me, please!
 
Thanks! I'm going to see what I come up with and go with it. I like 'em hoppy so hopefully I can't screw it up!
 
Hi,
<-n00b here (so take this input with caution!)
It has been mentioned to me by two different Coopers distributors to avoid boiling the pre-hopped 'kits' (like the aussie pale ale, real ale, etc.)..
In fact:
Do not boil the malt extract if possible. It is unnecessary and it will darken the beer and caramelize it. Also the bittering in the Lager beer kit will be reduced.
Granted, you aren't doing the 'Lager' but the 'Real Ale'

Another source told me (referring to my Cascading Coopers Pale Ale):
I’ve seen this recipe before. It does do a good beer. You are correct about not boiling the kit and doing the ice bath is really good.

Well, so where does that leave those of us who are using the 'pre-hopped kits' who are also doing a partial or mini-mash?
1) Ignore the advice?
2) Attempt some abstract hybrid boil?
3) Add extract at flameout?

I am leaning towards including DME/LME in the boil and doing any pre-hopped extract at flameout.
Keep remainder of the recipe (steeping, boil w/hops additions, etc.) the same.

I'm still somewhat on the fence over this. I'd love to hear from others who are veterans using pre-hopped kits!
 
Since I'm thinking at this point this is the first/last extract kit I'll be doing, I'm going to follow the instructions the LHBS gave me with the exception of my adjustment to do the full boil.

We'll see. I'm probably contributing to the whole twang issue.
 
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Especially if you are adding hops. MY biggest concern in boiling the extract is that the Real Ale is pre-hopped (meaning it's already boiled). If you are re-hopping then it should not matter AS much. Yes, the darkening and carmelization are still issues but I am not sure how much effect boiling has on them.
Let us know how it comes out!
The Blue Moon clone I did had a wheat extract. Not pre-hopped but the other issues would still affect and from the few tastings/readings it SEEMS ok. :)
 
Your approach, TexasStu, seems sound to me (for whatever THAT's worth!). I too have read lots about NOT boiling the can stuff. If you are going to do a full boil for the sake of adding your own bittering hopes, I would boil any additional dry extract you are modifying the recipe with, but save the canned stuff for flameout.

There seems to be a number of folks that say some of the canned kits are very good if you do them properly, which is usually counter to the included directions!

The reason I've been reading up on the can kits is that I want to have a batch of "easy-drinking" beer for the guests, and since most of it would be given away, I'd like it to be economical - a bang-for-the-buck type of homebrew. But I haven't settled on what that might be yet...
 
I am about to do a another batch with a Coopers Irish Stout as a base. Got it from AHS cuz I was ordering anyways BUT..Oh!
------------
Along those lines, I got an email yesterday (and I am sharing this with ANYONE who wants some cheaper Coopers product!)...

http://[email protected]: said:
We at MakeBeer.net overbought some items based on your past brewing patterns. We are overstocked on two venerable beer styles. They just happen to be two of my favorite styles -- India Pale Ale and the Irish Stout. We are selling each style for $12.99. A savings of $7.00 Now you and your friends don't have any excuses. What a great opportunity to save money and drink your favorite beers. In addition to these great beers we also are overstocked on our unhopped light malt extract. We are offering it to you for $7.99 a can, a savings of $5.00.
We love to hear from you, our brewing buddies, on what you'd like to see with MakeBeer.net. Your input is very important to us and we want everyone to have the best possible experience.

Compare to your prices. Remember, this is a sale and prolly won't last long
I am just an end-consumer in relation to makebeer.net.
-----------------------

So ANYWAYS, I have this kit... My plan is to boil the water, add the 'add kit' (1lb Corn Sugar, 1lb Light DME and .25lb Malto Dextrin) and boil it long enough to sterilize and convert (I am leaning to 1.5-2gallons water), flame-out and THEN add extract.

Edit: I didn't care for the 1052 OG so I boiled up 500gms (Coopers) Light Dry Malt (body, malt and head retention) and added and stirred well before pitching. Looks like OG went only to 1054 (I extpected more) but might be my stirring needs improvement?
Any comments on how bad I did 'fixing' a possible issue prior to pitching the yeast?
 
ISo ANYWAYS, I have this kit... My plan is to boil the water, add the 'add kit' (1lb Corn Sugar, 1lb Light DME and .25lb Malto Dextrin) and boil it long enough to sterilize and convert (I am leaning to 1.5-2gallons water), flame-out and THEN add extract.

If you're adding extract, why use the corn sugar and the malto dextrin? I'm not sure I'm following you. Is this a full boil? I'm a bit confused here!
:drunk:
 
The corn sugar, light dme & malto-dextrin are what AHS shipped me as the 'add pack' to make the 'complete kit'.
 
How long would ingredients such as those (non-grain fermentables - ie. DME, malto-dextrin, brewing sugar such as corn sugar or whatever) take to boil to convert those proteins? I am still wrapping my head around some of the fundamentals so please excuse my ig'nance.
I keep hearing people mention boiling the hopped extract (contradictory to manufacturer as well as importers/distributors/LHBSers). I could understand this if adding your own hops but these Coopers cans are a pre-boiled, pasturized and sanitary product (ready to dilute).
MY interpretation of a boil is that the boil helps break down complex proteins into less complex compound states that are best converted by yeast (reducing off tastes, etc.)
Obviously, a boil is also for bittering hops but there is more reason than JUST adding hops to boiling your sugars/fermentables, right?

In short, how long would it be advisable to boil JUST non-grain fermentables (10, 15, 30 60 minutes) to manage this additional function of the boil (other than just sterilization)?
 
How long would ingredients such as those (non-grain fermentables - ie. DME, malto-dextrin, brewing sugar such as corn sugar or whatever) take to boil to convert those proteins? I am still wrapping my head around some of the fundamentals so please excuse my ig'nance.
I keep hearing people mention boiling the hopped extract (contradictory to manufacturer as well as importers/distributors/LHBSers). I could understand this if adding your own hops but these Coopers cans are a pre-boiled, pasturized and sanitary product (ready to dilute).
MY interpretation of a boil is that the boil helps break down complex proteins into less complex compound states that are best converted by yeast (reducing off tastes, etc.)
Obviously, a boil is also for bittering hops but there is more reason than JUST adding hops to boiling your sugars/fermentables, right?

In short, how long would it be advisable to boil JUST non-grain fermentables (10, 15, 30 60 minutes) to manage this additional function of the boil (other than just sterilization)?

The boil only "breaks down" hops oils (isomerization). The malt extract, sugar, etc are all ready to ferment as is. You don't even have to boil them, but it helps them dissolve easier.
 
John Palmer said:
The foam is caused by proteins in the wort that coagulate due to the rolling action of the boil. The wort will continue to foam until the protein clumps get heavy enough to sink back into the pot. You will see particles floating around in the wort. It may look like Egg Drop Soup. This is called the Hot break and may take 5-20 minutes to occur, depending on the amount of protein in your extract. Often the first hop addition triggers a great deal of foaming, especially if hop pellets are used. I recommend waiting until the Hot break occurs before doing your first Hop addition and timing the hour. The extra boiling time won't hurt.

Covering the pot with the lid can help with heat retention and help you achieve your boil, but it can also lead to trouble. Murphy's Law has its own brewing corollary: "If it can boil over, it will boil over." Covering the pot and turning your back on it is the quickest way to achieve a boilover. If you cover the pot, watch it like a hawk.

Once you achieve a boil, only partially cover the pot, if at all. Why? Because in wort there are sulfur compounds that evolve and boil off. If they aren't removed during the boil, the can form dimethyl sulfide which contributes a cooked cabbage or corn-like flavor to the beer. If the cover is left on the pot, or left on such that the condensate from the lid can drip back in, then these flavors will have a much greater chance of showing up in the finished beer.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression stuff like the 'hot break' and 'protein boil-conditioning' was important? Oh well, shows how much I overthink stuff. LOL
 

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