Fountain pump chilling failure

I've been wanting to improve upon my ability to chill the wort down to a pitch-able temperature, and in that vein, went out to Lowe's to purchase a 210GPH fountain pump with a garden hose adapter. After letting the garden hose rip away at the boiling wort for a few minutes, I switched over to the pump, which I had in an icechest with ice water in it.

I was less than impressed with my results. The wort got down to 100d and then just stalled there. I added some more ice, and ran out... but still no change. I ended up switching back to the garden hose, which got it down to 85d after a grand total of 45 min after flameout.

So, it's taking quite a long time to get the stuff chilled, and I'm still not making what I'd consider an acceptable pitching temp. I don't know if I just need to add yet more ice, if I need to rumble the IC around more than I am, or if the pump just isn't pushing the water fast enough... but I'm kind of depressed that I might have wasted money on it.

I use the same system and have found that in order to accelerate cooling a good amount of ice is needed. My brewing conditions are hostile given that I brew in Puerto Rico and the water coming out of the hose is at 92 F. In order for me to cool a 5 gallon batch in 15 minutes to 70 F I need to use 50 pounds of ice. So a lot of ice at the beginning of the chilling period is more effective that adding ice later.

Are you stirring the wort in the opposite direction of the IC?

I am wondering if the pump is moving the chilled water too fast through your IC too fast to take in heat from your wort.

What is the out going temp of the pump water? If it is still cool then this may be the case.

The reason for my thought is the water from the garden hose is moving slower than the pumped water. This gives the wort more exposed time to the cooler water and therefore transfers more heat.

Just a thought.

I had a 165gpm pump that I picked up cheap on eBay. It didn't work very well, similar to what you report. Just not enough volume going through the IC. Now I use a 400gpm that came from HD and it has made a huge difference. Not as good as some here have reported, but I got down to 65 degrees in 20 minutes last night. (78 degrees room temp - w/ a 50ft IC)

I use a 5 gallon bucket right from the start and keep a constant flow of tap water going into it. I start with 4 one liter frozen water bottles in the bucket. They never completely melt. When the temperature gets to around 100 degrees I add the contents of my icemaker. The cubes are gone by the time I reach pitching temperature.

+1 for lots of easy stirring. How long is your IC? Is the water coming out really hot?

Instead of just moving the IC around, I recommend whirlpooling it the fastest you can with a sanitized spoon. If the output water is still under about 65F, I would definitely slow the flow down a bit. If it's coming out 90 or more, I would say speeding up the flow would help. This can be done by making sure your ice bin is at about the same level as your kettle so it doesn't have to fight head pressure.

My IC is a 25' with 3/8"Dia. tube (the standard chiller from AHS). I suspect that I didn't have enough ice, as I bought a 10# bag, but it sat in the ice chest for the brew day, and by the time I added hose water to it, they melted down pretty substantially.

I did not put a thermometer onto the outlet from the chiller when using the pump, but from my guestimation on feeling it, it was roughly ten degrees warmer than the hose water (I'd wager somewhere in the mid 90's). At first. I did feel a cooling of that outlet before I gave up and went back to the hose.

I gave stirring a shot, and found it to be cumbersome, trying to get a stir inside that 9" space inside the IC. But I might not have committed as much as I could have. The most progress I encountered from 100d to 85d was when I started "bobbing" the chiller around inside the kettle, while hosing off the outside of the kettle with the outlet from the IC.

Next time, I may try more ice (a couple 20# bags which I will keep in the deep freezer until flameout), and I'll commit to stirring the wort more... and see if these adjustments will help.

Bobby_M said:

I would say speeding up the flow would help. This can be done by making sure your ice bin is at about the same level as your kettle so it doesn't have to fight head pressure.

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That thought had occurred to me when I stood back and took in the scene. Next time, I will also put the ice chest onto one of my patio chairs, to get some elevation.

I start out with tap water and stir gently. It takes about 10 - 15 mins to get to around 90F. Then I switch to the fountain pump(280gph) with 10# of ice. Again stir gently and it takes about 10 - 15 minutes to get to 70F. By then the ice is gone. If I am doing a lager I use another 10# bag of ice and stir. I get to 55F in 10 - 15 mins.

20 - 30 mins for 70F and 30 - 45 mins for 55F.

I had the same exact problem last time I used my pump for the 1st time. I only had about 6 pounds of ice or so and only about 4 or 5 gallons of water. I ended up having to pitch at about 90F.

Next time I do it.

I will have a lot more water and a lot more ice. I have a car heater core, that I had purchased to water cool my pc. I'm going to use it as a prechiller with a 120mm 12 volt pc fan to try and knock some of the heat out of the water before it goes back into the ice.

jpsloan said:

My IC is a 25' with 3/8"Dia. tube (the standard chiller from AHS). I suspect that I didn't have enough ice, as I bought a 10# bag, but it sat in the ice chest for the brew day, and by the time I added hose water to it, they melted down pretty substantially.

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I know the 25' ICs are pretty standard, but they really are undersized for a full batch boil.

jpsloan said:

I gave stirring a shot, and found it to be cumbersome, trying to get a stir inside that 9" space inside the IC.

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I tried the same thing, and it didn't work worth a hoot. I finally broke down and bought a March pump and made a Jamil-style whirlpool chiller. Huge difference. Yeah, I know, just like a bigger chiller, more cash outlay needed. That sucks, but I am glad that I did it.

jpsloan said:

Next time, I may try more ice (a couple 20# bags which I will keep in the deep freezer until flame out), and I'll commit to stirring the wort more... and see if these adjustments will help.

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I think that adding the ice a little before flame out to pre chill the water may be a good idea.

what about adding some rock salt with the ice to get the temp down?

also I think I have read some where that you want 300 gph or larger.

I have had mostly bad cooling experiences myself. Ambient temps over 105 and tap temps at 85. even recircing the wort through a CFC didn't make a lot of difference. I was getting all the cooling possible from the tap water, but the times were still horrible(1 hour to get 10 gallons to 85-90*. After my last brew I came up with this idea and immediately set about making it.
I built it in a bucket to make it easier to move around and to contain the ice. A 25' coil of 3/8" tubing(secondary coil) was placed in the bottom and one end passed through a grommeted hole(outlet). I lowered the CFC around the secondary and pushed the inlet and outlet cooling hoses through the bucket and clamped them in place. Then clamped a tube from the wort outlet on the CFC to the inlet on the secondary coil. The whole bucket sits below the kettle so it can gravity flow through both coils(although I use a pump on the outlet side to pull the wort clear of the coils). Both coils flow top to bottom to help gravity/ siphon effect. crushed ice will be poured into the middle and outside the secondary coil(ice will be added as needed, I don't plan on more than 20 lbs.) The cooled wort will come out the red capped tube on the bottom right of the pic. I plan on testing tomorrow morning with water from 200* in a single pass. I will post results after testing.

I use the same 210 GPM pump from Lowes with a standard 25'-30' IC and it works fantastic, outside in my 110 degree (Texas) garage. Here is what I'm doing:

I use 50 pounds (5 bags) of ice in a cooler with the pump on the bottom.

Only put enough water in the cooler to prime the pump (get circulation) and only at the moment you will begin cooling your wort.

The return line from the IC (hot side) should sit on top of the ice.

The water coming out of the hot side of your IC will melt the ice and flow downward to be pumped again.

This method cools 5.5 gals of boiled wort to 72 degrees in 13 minutes (timed it last batch) and when finished, the cooler had gone from being all ice, no water, to an even mix of ice and water.

During the cooling I lightly moved the IC around to keep the hot wort moving.

You're my shining hope, Wicked Daddy... that I'll pull this off better next time.

Thanks for the notes, everyone!

I think the trick is to only use enough water to get the circulation going. I've seen where guys have filled their bucket/cooler of ice with water which would melt half of it before you even get going.

Cooling my first batch with an IC was a disaster as well. My tap water is 85 degrees. I used a prechiller submerged in a 5 gallon bucket of ice to cool the tab water and that didn't work either. It still took 30 minutes and the tap water melted 30 pounds of ice in the process. Crazy!

I read about the pump/recirculate ice method here and "wow!"... My last brew day was a huge success.

Good luck!

I have a happy update to my chilling woes.

Yesterday's brew went much better. I got more ice, kept that ice in the deep freeze until I was ready for it, picked up the ice chest to the same level as the kettle, and most importantly... stirred the wort while it chilled.

I borrowed a friend's digital thermometer, and when I started stirring, I could watch the temperature drop. I managed to get the wort down to 67 degrees in about 35 minutes... which I think was pretty good for my IC, which is on the small-ish side.

So, I feel very happy about my chilling setup!

I had the exact same problem yesterday. I live in Delaware so my ground water temp is probably about the same as yours. It took my over 45 and I just could not get it below 80F. I think I will try this next time. About how much ice did you end up using?

I use my garden hose first and get it to 100*. I then switch to the pump and it gets it to 75* no problem. I use 6 one gallon jugs and freeze them prior to brewing (nice thing is there is no cost on ice). I then set them in a large tub at the beginning of the brew process and it is ready to go when it comes time for chilling.
I have a 25' 1/2" chiller and use the whirlpool method while chilling. Takes around 20 minutes or so.

I used one twenty-pound bag of ice in roughly 2 gallons of water. I had ice leftover in the chest by the time I was done.